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    Boy Im glad I have my 335d otherwise AUDI here I come!!!

  3. #28
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    Don't blame BMW; blame all the kool-aid drinkers that think that electric cars are "green" despite having larger carbon footprints than gas vehicles.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Don't blame BMW; blame all the kool-aid drinkers that think that electric cars are "green" despite having larger carbon footprints than gas vehicles.
    What causes the carbon footprint to be larger?
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What causes the carbon footprint to be larger?
    I'll disclaim this by saying that I know nothing about this *particular* car. Put a typical electric such as the Prius or Volt:

    -mining the material for the batteries it is a filthy process
    -the electricity comes from a power grid with filthy plants. Unless you clean up the power grid, there is nothing green about these cars - they are powered by "dirty" power.
    -disposal of the batteries - in 10 years, all these things need to be recycled...there is no way to dispose of them...they are horrible for the environment...no one really knows what the cost or impact will be. They *cannot* simply be parked in a junkyard.
    -In general, the MPG numbers are horribly inflated and, from what I understand, are the result of a testing standard that is biased towards the electric cars...

    The future is hydrogen, not electric. But unfortunately, all the electric kool-aid drinking will undermine the serious development still needed in this area.

    The greenest cars on the planet are small displacement clean diesels (none sold in the US) and flex vehicles that can run alcohol.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    I'll disclaim this by saying that I know nothing about this *particular* car. Put a typical electric such as the Prius or Volt:

    -mining the material for the batteries it is a filthy process
    -the electricity comes from a power grid with filthy plants. Unless you clean up the power grid, there is nothing green about these cars - they are powered by "dirty" power.
    -disposal of the batteries - in 10 years, all these things need to be recycled...there is no way to dispose of them...they are horrible for the environment...no one really knows what the cost or impact will be. They *cannot* simply be parked in a junkyard.
    -In general, the MPG numbers are horribly inflated and, from what I understand, are the result of a testing standard that is biased towards the electric cars...

    The future is hydrogen, not electric. But unfortunately, all the electric kool-aid drinking will undermine the serious development still needed in this area.

    The greenest cars on the planet are small displacement clean diesels (none sold in the US) and flex vehicles that can run alcohol.
    This all makes sense. I think people are just sold on MPG numbers, irrelevant how they get them or what the impact is.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This all makes sense. I think people are just sold on MPG numbers, irrelevant how they get them or what the impact is.
    In the general public's defense, there is an insane marketing machine behind this. But if you watch the Chevy volt commercials, even the ones out now, they are pretty ambiguous about the impact. They say things like "I care about the future" and blah blah. I haven't seen them make any claims regarding carbon footprints or what actual benefit there is to these cars. Look at how much power we produce from coal, yes COAL:

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...S._Coal_Plants

    It drives me nuts though, which is why I park my diesel X5 diesel in any hybrid or electric car parking I see : )

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    In the general public's defense, there is an insane marketing machine behind this. But if you watch the Chevy volt commercials, even the ones out now, they are pretty ambiguous about the impact. They say things like "I care about the future" and blah blah. I haven't seen them make any claims regarding carbon footprints or what actual benefit there is to these cars. Look at how much power we produce from coal, yes COAL:

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...S._Coal_Plants

    It drives me nuts though, which is why I park my diesel X5 diesel in any hybrid or electric car parking I see : )
    Well would you prefer for us to move all nuclear?

    Yes, these cars are pretty ambiguous with how their footprint is presented. Pretty much all people talk about are the MPG numbers.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well would you prefer for us to move all nuclear?

    Yes, these cars are pretty ambiguous with how their footprint is presented. Pretty much all people talk about are the MPG numbers.
    I'm not a power grid expert, just a "sniff out bull$#@!" expert ; )

    My buddy works for Westinghouse in the nuclear division. From what I understand, a proper nuclear plant is very safe and clean. However, much like the hype with the electric cars, the hype related to the Japan disaster has left a black mark on all nuclear solutions. Still, from what he tells me, they are recovering and working on several plants right now...not sure if any are in the US. I don't think he can tell me legally either.

    I just watched this hype piece on Chevy on Velocity and, even in that puff piece, no one blatantly said these are good for the environment blah blah. Actually, towards the end, one of the engineers talked about flex vehicles and "running off compressed gasses". Someone missed an edit I guess ; )

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well would you prefer for us to move all nuclear?
    Sticky, read the following: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...h-thorium.html

    I'm not an expert, but it's always a good idea to think about who stands to lose ($) when standards (in this case energy) change.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 62Lincoln Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, read the following: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...h-thorium.html

    I'm not an expert, but it's always a good idea to think about who stands to lose ($) when standards (in this case energy) change.
    Interesting read, looking it over.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 62Lincoln Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, read the following: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...h-thorium.html

    I'm not an expert, but it's always a good idea to think about who stands to lose ($) when standards (in this case energy) change.
    Sounds too good to be true.
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  13. #38
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    Im glad I have my DIESEL!!

  14. #39
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    I hate listening to the all-electric vehicle owners saying that they have eliminated their carbon footprint ... I guess they are charging their batteries with solar? NOPE! In Florida, Coal is still widespread ... far dirtier than gasoline.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sounds too good to be true.
    I'm sure there is some sort of "anti" group that could point out all the negatives - the anti-nuclear movement is very strong, and they seem to want to lump this into that category, even though it doesn't have the same drawbacks.

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    I really hoped they did not cancelled this bmw 335 diesel, im really hoping for his one and then they cancelled it im slight disappointed because diesel is cheaper but it's ok. I'm not bitter or anything and i dont hate the hybrid one but im not really a fan of hybrid cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by thegreatscott Click here to enlarge
    I really hoped they did not cancelled this bmw 335 diesel, im really hoping for his one and then they cancelled it im slight disappointed because diesel is cheaper but it's ok. I'm not bitter or anything and i dont hate the hybrid one but im not really a fan of hybrid cars.
    They are pushing the hybrid on us instead.
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    Disregarding how electricity is generated, electric cars are inherently efficient compared to internal combustion engines. A gallon of gas has about 33kw in energy. A 24kWh electric car battery only holds a little more than 2/3 of a gallon of gas stored energy. Yet an average electric car could go 80 miles on that 2/3 gallon of gas equivalent. Hence the 100mpge ratings.

    Electric vehicle costs are still so expensive, you will find it difficult to justify the costs. At $27K RAV4 becomes a $50k electric RAV4. At $19K Honda Fit becomes a $38K electric Honda Fit. A Nissan Leaf is nearly $40K with Nissan losing about $20k per car. Chevy says it is losing nearly $40k per car when selling its $40K+ Chevy Volt. So were it not for the CAFE regulations, and California ZEV mandates, we probably wouldn't have any electric cars.

    But on the other hand, putting just 16 (250watt) solar panels on your roof in So Cal will power the average electric car over 18000 miles a year. Pretty amazing how the sun can power your car like that. All this with free sun energy. Well "free" energy once you pay for the $25000 solar panel array, lol. The Fed Gov will help pay for 1/3 of your solar panel system , and $7500 off of your electric car though. They technology is there to reduce our oil dependence, but the costs are still prohibitive for the most part.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Velocity26 Click here to enlarge
    I hate listening to the all-electric vehicle owners saying that they have eliminated their carbon footprint ... I guess they are charging their batteries with solar? NOPE! In Florida, Coal is still widespread ... far dirtier than gasoline.
    I agree 110%. Has anyone ever seen pic's from Canada on what mining for nickel ( used for batteries) does to the landscape? NASA uses those sites to practice driving their "moon buggies". Try these pictures:

    http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Don't blame BMW; blame all the kool-aid drinkers that think that electric cars are "green" despite having larger carbon footprints than gas vehicles.

    Look at it this way. Battery and electrical energy technology can improve. You can't improve the science behind burning a fossil fuel in limited supply. The end. The trade you make may be negligible, but would would rather have a platform that has room for improvement or a platform that does not. Its a matter of electricity which can be generated and stored in god knows how many ways in the future, or a fossil fuel, which there is a limited supply of. The purpose of the electric vehicle to me has less to do with the carbon foot print, and more to do with what will we be driving in 100 years. One method continues to get better(undeniably) and the other continues to get more expensive and have a dimmer outlook. Regardless of where we stand right now, which path do you want to wind up on? Those lines are diverging quickly in opposite directions.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Look at it this way. Battery and electrical energy technology can improve. You can't improve the science behind burning a fossil fuel in limited supply. The end. The trade you make may be negligible, but would would rather have a platform that has room for improvement or a platform that does not. Its a matter of electricity which can be generated and stored in god knows how many ways in the future, or a fossil fuel, which there is a limited supply of. The purpose of the electric vehicle to me has less to do with the carbon foot print, and more to do with what will we be driving in 100 years. One method continues to get better(undeniably) and the other continues to get more expensive and have a dimmer outlook. Regardless of where we stand right now, which path do you want to wind up on? Those lines are diverging quickly in opposite directions.
    I don't agree. Electricity=coal. Please don't say, "Clean coal". Hydrogen fuel cells or LPG, IMHO. Electric cars are a tree hugging gimmick.

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    The Swedish [if i remember correctly] are working on obtaining fuel in the form of hydrogen from Sea Water, you dont get much greener than that.
    We were offered Nissan Leaf [ electric vehicles] on a deal we have with them but most people live miles from work, in my case its a 80 mile round trip and the leaf will only cover 37 before it needs charging!
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    335i ~ JB4 ~ BMS ~ DCI ~ Active Autowerks CP & BOV ~ Borla Catback Exhaust

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    I don't agree. Electricity=coal. Please don't say, "Clean coal". Hydrogen fuel cells or LPG, IMHO. Electric cars are a tree hugging gimmick.
    Electricity doesn't always equal coal. And even if it did, it wouldn't mean it always will. There are many other ways to obtain electricity. Its a form of energy in its nearest portable raw form and can be created with a freakin hydro electric dam. I grew up next to one. You're on an anti electric car parade blindly. Look at the upside: You can't get a fossil fuel from something other than fossils. You can make electricity a number of ways. Would you rather have an iphone with a non removable battery or a samsung with a removable battery? Yes, at the end of the day they are both batteries but at least with one of them you've got options to change things around or swap in new batteries. The analogy is based on flexibility. With fossil fuels you have none. I'm no tree hugger and I'm not preaching emissions. I'm looking at the reality of THERE IS A LIMITED SUPPLY of fossil fuels. There is not a limited supply of electricity. So talking about clean this or clean that has absolutely no bearing on what I'm saying. I'm talking about $#@! running out. Not tree huggers.

    So you're disagree by using points which are irrelevant to my statement. Thats like saying your wrong because the sky is blue.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sparky68 Click here to enlarge
    The Swedish [if i remember correctly] are working on obtaining fuel in the form of hydrogen from Sea Water, you dont get much greener than that.
    We were offered Nissan Leaf [ electric vehicles] on a deal we have with them but most people live miles from work, in my case its a 80 mile round trip and the leaf will only cover 37 before it needs charging!
    Apparently other people believe there is no point bringing up advancements in technology since it isn't here now. I disagree. Its almost as if they are trying to say that fossil fuels are BETTER for the environment so lets keep using it even though its going to run out, lol. Even if electric vehicles were worse on the environment, I wouldn't care. It provides us a transportation future. There are ways we haven't even invented to generate more electricity and nobody can gauge how efficient that will or will not be, but ignorance is bliss as they say. If electric cars can provide us with an alternate method of transportation, who gives a $#@! if its more efficient or not?

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    Currently for the new electric cars the biggest part of the additional electricity is coming from Coal fired plants since all the clean electricity is produced at full rate in any case since its variable cost is close to zero. I don't care about electric cars causing all those emissions as far as I can get an additional electric motor to add torque so I can fit a huge turbo to shift the combustion engine's powerband to the right and up. LOL

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