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    If anyone is seeking vast knowledge about e36 turbo kits/tuning. I can be of help. I have been in this field for sometime. I have trained many of the now considered greats. Few will admit it from the pride they carry, and thats ok. I forgive them. Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge
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    Milkt that was me on the bike. I do not like to show off, but I couldnt resist that 1 time.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    1 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    WOW lots of unnecessary comments, jabs, etc.. I have a long wonderful weekend to say the least. Today was great busy efficient relaxed... I get home early today open up to BB and see all the fake comments and jabs etc..

    Def makes me not want to post, view or even answer anyone's question here regarding this thread...

    But unfortunately I will, when I am ready. I will post up pictures of both manifolds, collectors pro's and Con's and why the ICS Manifold is Superior to the BL.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    WOW lots of unnecessary comments, jabs, etc.. I have a long wonderful weekend to say the least. Today was great busy efficient relaxed... I get home early today open up to BB and see all the fake comments and jabs etc..

    Def makes me not want to post, view or even answer anyone's question here
    Stop here.


    And carry this tactic out regarding the rest of the forum.


    That would be serious win.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by YoungE46 Click here to enlarge
    - What type of empirical research and development do you conduct?
    - How have you determined that your ICS Performance exhaust manifold is superior to the Boost Logic exhaust manifold?
    - How have you determined that the turbochargers you utilize in your turbo setups are the correct ones for the application?
    - How is it that an "industry leading" facility does not know that "boost coming on slower" isn't what prevents connecting rods from catastrophic failure?
    The manifold question is only one of a few IMPORTANT questions asked.
    Glad you had a pleasant weekend,
    but you have a small amount of work to do here.
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  9. #34
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    WOW lots of unnecessary comments, jabs, etc.. I have a long wonderful weekend to say the least. Today was great busy efficient relaxed... I get home early today open up to BB and see all the fake comments and jabs etc..

    Def makes me not want to post, view or even answer anyone's question here regarding this thread...

    But unfortunately I will, when I am ready. I will post up pictures of both manifolds, collectors pro's and Con's and why the ICS Manifold is Superior to the BL.
    They are having a bit too much fun at your expense.

    Gentlemen, just chill, let George answer questions about ICS products. Don't antagonize, sometimes the subtle jabs are the most offensive.

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    0 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They are having a bit too much fun at your expense.

    Gentlemen, just chill, let George answer questions about ICS products. Don't antagonize, sometimes the subtle jabs are the most offensive.
    Yes let him answer the questions I agree.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    Last edited by milkt; 06-03-2010 at 08:52 PM.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by milkt Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    They are awesome dancers. Where did you find them?
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    ICS Turbo Manifold

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by YoungE46 Click here to enlarge
    After being in the BMW world for countless years I've finally had to ask a question that has boggled me for quite some time. The first time I had actually read George posting about his research and development practices and strong reputation as being a leading BMW FI shop on the east coast, pushing the envelope, I had to say I was quite impressed to hear such a self proclaimed title. Never the less I continued seeing the self proclaimed title being written and the claims being made about "walking the walk", yet I never saw any type of empirical backing behind his findings.
    BimmerBoost seems to be a medium where enthusiasts can have a proper discussion with out having to be worried about moderators and administrators that are way to enthusiastic about utilizing the ban stick when a vendor gets questioned.
    Therefore, I'd like to publicly direct this question at ICS Performance, and to keep this thread strictly educational.

    "ICS Performance"; George Kakaletris, as a self proclaimed leader in the BMW FI world, pushing the proverbial envelope time and time again:
    - What type of empirical research and development do you conduct?
    - How have you determined that your ICS Performance exhaust manifold is superior to the Boost Logic exhaust manifold?
    - How have you determined that the turbochargers you utilize in your turbo setups are the correct ones for the application?
    - How is it that an "industry leading" facility does not know that "boost coming on slower" isn't what prevents connecting rods from catastrophic failure?
    Hopefully we'll finally get some real answers, an opportunity for you to provide real and "informative information".
    We would just like to comment on the post and give you a little insight on the ICS Manifold. After many years of experience with the E36's we know the car very well and have tried many different manifolds and setups. We have nailed down a very solid turbo kit with superb components that work together very well. We have used the Boost Logic manifold for some time and although it was a decent manifold there were many things that we wanted to change and improve on. We worked closely with and engineer and spent many hours on research and development. After a few prototypes We tried all of these including the current manifold and the Boost logic on the Dyno on the same car with the same set-up. Same car same set-up Dyno tests proved the current manifold by far the Best!

    - The ICS Manifold Features a Thicker Head Flange that fits the head and does not need to be re drilled or modified to fit the head.

    -The ICS head flange fits the manifold gaskets

    - The ICS manifold has a thicker head flange as well as a thicker T4 or T3 flange "depending on the users preference" that will not warp or distort. We have had many Boost logic manifolds that have warped flanges that have needed to be decked.

    - The ICS manifold features a Six into One True Merge collector unlike that of the Boost Logic.

    -The ICS Manifold has all individual runners unlike the Boost Logic manifold

    - The ICS Manifold has no boost creep

    -The ICS Manifold is made from Schedule 10 Stainless Steel and is back purged and Tig welded in the USA unlike the Boost Logic manifold that is made of mild steel and Mig welded which in many cases has cracked and has had to be re-welded or thrown away.

    - The ICS manifold makes More Power and TQ due in part to its ICS proprietary engineering.

    Pictures and more information will follow!
    Last edited by ICS Performance; 06-03-2010 at 11:50 PM.

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    Are you sure the BL mani isn't 321 SS?

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    100% Positive.

  16. #41
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    Interesting info. I look foward to seeing the dyno sheets comparing the 2.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    We would just like to comment on the post and give you a little insight on the ICS Manifold. After many years of experience with the E36's we know the car very well and have tried many different manifolds and setups. We have nailed down a very solid turbo kit with superb components that work together very well. We have used the Boost Logic manifold for some time and although it was a decent manifold there were many things that we wanted to change and improve on. We worked closely with and engineer and spent many hours on research and development. After a few prototypes We tried all of these including the current manifold and the Boost logic on the Dyno on the same car with the same set-up. Same car same set-up Dyno tests proved the current manifold by far the Best!

    - The ICS Manifold Features a Thicker Head Flange that fits the head and does not need to be re drilled or modified to fit the head.

    -The ICS head flange fits the manifold gaskets

    - The ICS manifold has a thicker head flange as well as a thicker T4 or T3 flange "depending on the users preference" that will not warp or distort. We have had many Boost logic manifolds that have warped flanges that have needed to be decked.

    - The ICS manifold features a Six into One True Merge collector unlike that of the Boost Logic.

    -The ICS Manifold has all individual runners unlike the Boost Logic manifold

    - The ICS Manifold has no boost creep

    -The ICS Manifold is made from Schedule 10 Stainless Steel and is back purged and Tig welded in the USA unlike the Boost Logic manifold that is made of mild steel and Mig welded which in many cases has cracked and has had to be re-welded or thrown away.

    - The ICS manifold makes More Power and TQ due in part to its ICS proprietary engineering.

    Pictures and more information will follow!
    I assume that you videotaped or saved your dyno graphs during all of that testing. If so, please share the claims with some hard evidence.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    I assume that you videotaped or saved your dyno graphs during all of that testing. If so, please share the claims with some hard evidence.
    May be a little early for you to be in ICS threads. Let's have you and George keep your distance from one another for a little while.

    There is a lot more for you to discuss here than ICS and I would like to see you contribute in other areas.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    May be a little early for you to be in ICS threads. Let's have you and George keep your distance from one another for a little while.

    There is a lot more for you to discuss here than ICS and I would like to see you contribute in other areas.
    I totally agree Sticky, I could not have said it better. He should be contributing his VAST F.I BMW knowledge in other threads here on BB and keep the peace from here on in.

  20. #45
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    We would just like to comment on the post and give you a little insight on the ICS Manifold. After many years of experience with the E36's we know the car very well and have tried many different manifolds and setups. We have nailed down a very solid turbo kit with superb components that work together very well. We have used the Boost Logic manifold for some time and although it was a decent manifold there were many things that we wanted to change and improve on. We worked closely with and engineer and spent many hours on research and development. After a few prototypes We tried all of these including the current manifold and the Boost logic on the Dyno on the same car with the same set-up. Same car same set-up Dyno tests proved the current manifold by far the Best!

    - The ICS Manifold Features a Thicker Head Flange that fits the head and does not need to be re drilled or modified to fit the head.

    -The ICS head flange fits the manifold gaskets

    - The ICS manifold has a thicker head flange as well as a thicker T4 or T3 flange "depending on the users preference" that will not warp or distort. We have had many Boost logic manifolds that have warped flanges that have needed to be decked.

    - The ICS manifold features a Six into One True Merge collector unlike that of the Boost Logic.

    -The ICS Manifold has all individual runners unlike the Boost Logic manifold

    - The ICS Manifold has no boost creep

    -The ICS Manifold is made from Schedule 10 Stainless Steel and is back purged and Tig welded in the USA unlike the Boost Logic manifold that is made of mild steel and Mig welded which in many cases has cracked and has had to be re-welded or thrown away.

    - The ICS manifold makes More Power and TQ due in part to its ICS proprietary engineering.

    Pictures and more information will follow!
    Excuse my long post here but I'm in awe.

    This is all great info about your manifold;
    however, the questions are unanswered.

    Swapping out your OWN prototypes is not showing us the differences.
    We're to assume you have tested them and "know" something that we don't.

    I'm also concerned why you would ONLY compare the ISC turbo mani to the Boostlogic manifold.
    The way you've described the BL mani, it is one of the worst manifolds out there.
    I think its cool that yours may be better than the worst,
    but your statements comparing the two are more political than informative.
    You're only slinging mud on BL, it seems.

    Are you comparing yours to the BL because BL isn't too interested anymore
    in marketing their E36 manifold;
    hence, you don't have to worry about them being upset about your "better than" "claims"?

    BTW, many users of the boostlogic manifold have not had creep issues.
    Unless you can organize and provide this info,
    you may not state it openly without being "CALLED" on it.
    Gather those CREEP issues for us please.

    Equation:
    BL users with creep issues / TOTAL number of BL users = REAL WORLD INFO

    We all know that the head flange, turbo flange and gasket fitment DOES NOT make a manifold better.
    Its ability to spool swiftly (better),
    flow better up top (high WHP),
    charge and intake piping FRIENDLY,
    and I'll let you name a few more.

    "The ICS manifold makes More Power and TQ due in part to its ICS proprietary engineering"
    This statement means nothing and goes completely OPPOSITE to what the OP has requested.
    It is a cereal commercial. Ours is better.

    PLEASE
    provide specific, PERTINENT information that shows us how you determined your claims about the two manifolds.
    Comparison dynos showing spool, whp, torque, AFRs, etc

    Awaiting all this info
    as well as the SPECIFICS/answers to the other questions:

    [What type of empirical research and development do you conduct?
    - How have you determined that the turbochargers you utilize in your turbo setups are the correct ones for the application?
    - How is it that an "industry leading" facility does not know that "boost coming on slower" isn't what prevents connecting rods from catastrophic failure?]
    Last edited by milkt; 06-04-2010 at 09:31 AM.
    Click here to enlarge
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by milkt Click here to enlarge
    Excuse my long post here but I'm in awe.

    This is all great info about your manifold;
    however, the questions are unanswered.

    Swapping out your OWN prototypes is not showing us the differences.
    We're to assume you have tested them and "know" something that we don't.

    I'm also concerned why you would ONLY compare the ISC turbo mani to the Boostlogic manifold.
    The way you've described the BL mani, it is one of the worst manifolds out there.
    I think its cool that yours may be better than the worst,
    but your statements comparing the two are more political than informative.
    You're only slinging mud on BL, it seems.

    Are you comparing yours to the BL because BL isn't too interested anymore
    in marketing their E36 manifold;
    hence, you don't have to worry about them being upset about your "better than" "claims"?

    BTW, many users of the boostlogic manifold have not had creep issues.
    Unless you can organize and provide this info,
    you may not state it openly without being "CALLED" on it.
    Gather those CREEP issues for us please.

    Equation:
    BL users with creep issues / TOTAL number of BL users = REAL WORLD INFO

    We all know that the head flange, turbo flange and gasket fitment DOES NOT make a manifold better.
    Its ability to spool swiftly (better),
    flow better up top (high WHP),
    charge and intake piping FRIENDLY,
    and I'll let you name a few more.

    "The ICS manifold makes More Power and TQ due in part to its ICS proprietary engineering"
    This statement means nothing and goes completely OPPOSITE to what the OP has requested.
    It is a cereal commercial. Ours is better.

    PLEASE
    provide specific, PERTINENT information that shows us how you determined your claims about the two manifolds.
    Comparison dynos showing spool, whp, torque, AFRs, etc

    Awaiting all this info
    as well as the SPECIFICS/answers to the other questions:

    [What type of empirical research and development do you conduct?
    - How have you determined that the turbochargers you utilize in your turbo setups are the correct ones for the application?
    - How is it that an "industry leading" facility does not know that "boost coming on slower" isn't what prevents connecting rods from catastrophic failure?]
    Mr Gyro Murdelizer... No matter what I post up it will def not be good enough for you, even if I post up a dyno chart and video and God himself by my side, you will def have something negative to say or quiz me.

    It's pointless even trying to explain to you anything. BTW the BL served it's purpose no doubt, iCS has built a better unit to say the least in which out performs others.

    Maybe if I don't include ICS in the manifold production b/c my fabricator is not ICS himself you will then agree it's an AWESOME manifold. Who knows which way the wind blows?

  22. #47
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    pictures of both of the manifolds does nothing to illustrate the benefits and detriments of each manifold, and once again, pictures of the collectors and you personally elaborating with your vast fluidynamics and thermodynamics background does not show how it is superior. have you flowed either manifold, and have you installed both manifolds with pressure sensors to determine whether or not when they're coupled with the turbos you use if the back pressure is optimal. This is a technical discussion, and I'm sure when everything is answered it should prove a point. It would be great to see all info, and give a better understanding to the humans. Thanks for your time.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    Mr Gyro Murdelizer... No matter what I post up it will def not be good enough for you, even if I post up a dyno chart and video and God himself by my side, you will def have something negative to say or quiz me.

    It's pointless even trying to explain to you anything. BTW the BL served it's purpose no doubt, iCS has built a better unit to say the least in which out performs others.

    Maybe if I don't include ICS in the manifold production b/c my fabricator is not ICS himself you will then agree it's an AWESOME manifold. Who knows which way the wind blows?
    I think the point of this thread
    (I may be wrong as I didn't start it)
    was to point out that you never SHOW us how you determine your "claims".

    Maybe the OP should have asked a better question?

    I was trying to DEFINE or help you understand the question.
    It seemed like you had no idea what you were talking about.
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by milkt Click here to enlarge
    I think the point of this thread
    (I may be wrong as I didn't start it)
    was to point out that you never SHOW us how you determine your "claims".

    Maybe the OP should have asked a better question?

    I was trying to DEFINE or help you understand the question.
    It seemed like you had no idea what you were talking about.
    He is right, no matter what he does it won't be good enough for you guys as you will just continue to ride ICS for Aimal.

    Maybe you should not speak for the OP and let the OP convey his thoughts?

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    maybe I should ask any questions I like.
    Click here to enlarge
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