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  1. #51
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    LM - feel free to stop by any time Click here to enlarge R&D is done on the S65 dry sump kit.

    Sticky - Honestly, $7k is not an unreasonable price. See our S54 price...these billet pans are amazing.

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    Mike, I posted that pic in a Gintani thread on the other forum.

    Got a PM from someone saying that is "acceptable" wear.


  3. #53
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    My engine shop foreman (with 40 years experience) would disagree. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Mike, I posted that pic in a Gintani thread on the other forum.

    Got a PM from someone saying that is "acceptable" wear.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Got a PM from someone saying that is "acceptable" wear.
    Who the hell said that?

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, $7k is not an unreasonable price.
    It's different when it's not your $7k Click here to enlarge

    Please tell me you guys will offer a more affordable option than Turner.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    BS on what? Why do you think BMW dropped the redline?
    My mistake my Roadster was an 02 sorry.

    Anyway, I had a 03 M3, while I owned my o2 M roadster and the rev limit was the same in both cars. THAT is why I called BS my friend.

    Same engine, different exhaust which changed the HP ratings. As far as I know.

    Interesting, I thought is was all engines made BEFORE August that had the bearing issues, If memeory serves me right mine was a late September build.

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    Haha, I hear ya. Though, I spend a bit of stupid $$$ on my toy car, esp in relation to it's resale value. This is a brutal hobby!

    Price will be close, the pan (we make) and pump (we buy) are very expensive.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's different when it's not your $7k Click here to enlarge

    Please tell me you guys will offer a more affordable option than Turner.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    i agree 100%. BMW is not going to react to a handful of people that literally tear apart their engines to see the bearing wear. There are hundreds of thousands of S65s that are performing just fine and BMW isnt going to cater to the people that want to supercharge their engines.
    Errr, hundreds of thousands?? The S65 is only used in the M3 and I doubt that more than 50.000 were sold worldwide, if that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    How much longer will BMW be making this motor ?
    Production will end with this generation M3.

  9. #59
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    i would trust the V.A.C team's word they deff know what they are doing. Just go there and see for yourself, they know what they are talking about.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
    Same engine, different exhaust which changed the HP ratings. As far as I know.
    Same engine, different redline, exhaust, and tune which account for the hp rating.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    The S65 is only used in the M3 and I doubt that more than 50.000 were sold worldwide, if that.
    100,000+ were sold.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    100,000+ were sold.
    Source? I googled a bit but found lower numbers.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Source? I googled a bit but found lower numbers.
    I don't have the exact figures but the E46 M3 sold over 100,000 units and the E9X production was larger than that so it just follows logically.

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    Hey Mike,

    Thanks for posting this.

    That certainly is a little ugly.

    We regularly change rod bearings on S62's as preventative maintenance and we see some real ugliness over there including my own engine.

    Only engine we have seen zero wear on after 80,000 miles is one that uses a different oil. The customer is a potent member of M5board and believes the primary wear is actually down to TWS (10W60) due to it's poor protection during cold engine temperatures. That's of course his view and may be totally incorrect but it might also be relevant.

    Anyway, what's the mileage on this engine you've pulled apart? (Sorry if I have missed it somewhere).

  15. #65
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    No prob, there will be more soon. I hear ya on the S62...it's common procedure.

    Still waiting on exact mileage from the owner, he is hard to get in touch with. (this is a customer's engine) Once I get that I will start my mega thread!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Hey Mike,

    Thanks for posting this.

    That certainly is a little ugly.

    We regularly change rod bearings on S62's as preventative maintenance and we see some real ugliness over there including my own engine.

    Only engine we have seen zero wear on after 80,000 miles is one that uses a different oil. The customer is a potent member of M5board and believes the primary wear is actually down to TWS (10W60) due to it's poor protection during cold engine temperatures. That's of course his view and may be totally incorrect but it might also be relevant.

    Anyway, what's the mileage on this engine you've pulled apart? (Sorry if I have missed it somewhere).

  16. #66
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    How would someone know that they had motor issues such as this with rod bearings? I guess you wouldn't unless you cracked it open?

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    Yeah 7k doesn't seem that unreasonable for a dry sump kit. I spent probably $3,500 making mine for my rb and then they'd have to include overhead, profit and the BMW tax. It's expensive and unless your heavily involved in tracking the car it's not worth it. On this motor they'd need to identify what's causing the wear and see if a dry sump would prevent it. If the bearings are defective like someone posted about another BMW engine the dry sump might help delay the inevitable but probably not prevent it. Btw doesn't that rods like super weak to begin with? Definitely not what you'd call beefy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if any of the teams running this motor in competition are seeing this wear? Teams like Turner, Fall Line, etc...
    I have the response from two teams.

    Turner's:
    I am sure that oiling has been an issue on a few cars, and that has made a big impact on the forums. I am also willing to bet that most of the cars on the road will never experience any issues at all.
    A dry sump is a very expensive and very big job to install. It is restricted to full track cars only, we have yet to see anyone put these on a street car.
    Some French team's:
    Yes. We are aware of it and we have one car with blown engine with the very same reason [He meant rod problem]. But you have to realize our drivers managed to do more than 100 laps with the car in just Nurburgring and we track our cars across Europe.
    We will update you on this when we finally find the cause.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    How would someone know that they had motor issues such as this with rod bearings? I guess you wouldn't unless you cracked it open?
    That, or total failure.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Yeah 7k doesn't seem that unreasonable for a dry sump kit. I spent probably $3,500 making mine for my rb and then they'd have to include overhead, profit and the BMW tax. It's expensive and unless your heavily involved in tracking the car it's not worth it. On this motor they'd need to identify what's causing the wear and see if a dry sump would prevent it. If the bearings are defective like someone posted about another BMW engine the dry sump might help delay the inevitable but probably not prevent it. Btw doesn't that rods like super weak to begin with? Definitely not what you'd call beefy.
    Race cars, not race inspired cars, run dry sump systems. I would not recommend this for any street car. I do know a few crazy chaps who have 'street driven' race cars...but they may do 500 miles per year on their car. It is not designed for road use. Plus, it would be a $#@! to actually implement. Where are you putting all this? (from our recently sold E46M race car)

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    That, or total failure.



    Race cars, not race inspired cars, run dry sump systems. I would not recommend this for any street car. I do know a few crazy chaps who have 'street driven' race cars...but they may do 500 miles per year on their car. It is not designed for road use. Plus, it would be a $#@! to actually implement. Where are you putting all this? (from our recently sold E46M race car)

    http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/vacmotorsports/Silver Bullet II/IMG_0154.jpg
    I hear what you're saying - but every 993 Porsche made came with a dry sump oiling system so it's really not all that unusual for a street car.
    If I was doing a big HP build it would be the first thing on my list.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Race cars, not race inspired cars, run dry sump systems. I would not recommend this for any street car. I do know a few crazy chaps who have 'street driven' race cars...but they may do 500 miles per year on their car. It is not designed for road use. Plus, it would be a $#@! to actually implement. Where are you putting all this? (from our recently sold E46M race car)

    http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...I/IMG_0154.jpg
    Oh I agree completely I only used it on a dedicated drag car, it will never see the street.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-HP-RB25-build

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    My engine shop foreman (with 40 years experience) would disagree. Click here to enlarge
    Paul probably has seen some nasty stuff....

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's different when it's not your $7k Click here to enlarge

    Please tell me you guys will offer a more affordable option than Turner.
    It's not the price you need to look at.....it's how fast TMS started selling that kit when they started racing the S65 in KC.

    Something else that I've noticed is that VAC is now using Auto Verdi pumps, which are fairly expensive. The Peterson stuff just isn't on the same level.
    Rep Points > Posts since 2010

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    it's how fast TMS started selling that kit when they started racing the S65 in KC.
    A good point, it was basically right away.

  24. #74
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    This might be the dumbest thing I've ever said, because I don't know anything about them...

    Would an Accusump do anything to help this issue? Maybe provide a little bit of extra oil pressure on startup and in high-g situations?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    I hear what you're saying - but every 993 Porsche made came with a dry sump oiling system so it's really not all that unusual for a street car.
    If I was doing a big HP build it would be the first thing on my list.
    +1 Every Porsche GT model has a dry sump oiling system because they're intended for both street and track use. Not talking about Lambos and Ferraris and other "proper" sports cars, but it's really not that uncommon on street cars.

    As soon as you start tracking the car with R-compound tyres, higher g-forces in corners may cause oil lubrication issues.

    It's worrying to see these issues on stock M3s...

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