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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    Please just stop with your endless physical theories. They're starting to get a little bit too much.

    The IC works pretty darn good and is also very cheap.
    ...and fact is that dzenno's car are freaking fast.
    Well are you going to answer my question?
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  2. #52
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    Dzenno, did you have the latest Helix design?

  3. #53
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    Many run meth, so comparing FMICs when running meth makes sense. As Dzenno says, that is how he runs almost all the time. Running in a laboratory gives something, but replicating the actual usage provides another perspective. Running with meth, gives more weight to the pressure drop figures, whereas the cooling properties will be less important.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Many run meth, so comparing FMICs when running meth makes sense. As Dzenno says, that is how he runs almost all the time. Running in a laboratory gives something, but replicating the actual usage provides another perspective. Running with meth, gives more weight to the pressure drop figures, whereas the cooling properties will be less important.
    I agree, run with meth on a warmer day.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Well are you going to answer my question?
    I already did.
    Reread my posts and pay attention.

    I'll give you some help:
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom
    I know the end tanks are not the most efficient ones, but the intercooler obviously performs great, the WGDC's are in check and most important; it costs a third...

    I can't believe why you put such a huge amount of time and focus on this...?
    Just let it go and move on with more important things.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    I already did.
    Reread my posts and pay attention.

    I'll give you some help:



    I can't believe why you put such a huge amount of time and focus on this...?
    Just let it go and move on with more important things.
    Thanks
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Thanks
    My pleasure.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  8. #58
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    DBFIU, I honestly respect your knowledge and I've learned a few things from your Intercooler Design thread which I very much appreciate. I do realize according to what you posted and what I've read in Corky Bell's Maximum Boost book that this intercooler doesn't have the greatest end tanks, neither did the helix v1 that i had when it comes to theory, and neither do many other FMICs on the market with exception of a few but those have smaller cores that are deeper vs. taller so again you're in a pickle in that respect.

    Overall, I think what we need to realize is that bottom line is that this FMIC does the job very "well" when compared to others and is a HUGE upgrade from the stock N54 intercooler in every sense of the word. Obviously more data will come and there will be more to discuss but at the same time its not fair at this time to post comments that hint towards this intercooler "not" doing its job well just because it hasn't been run in hot conditions yet. I don't have pressure probes available and I definitely would test it for pressure drop if I did have them but I don't intend to buy them at this time as given WGDC logs the DME isn't fighting any restrictions to reach the same boost targets as before. Nothing with respect to the way my car runs changed in that respect.

    I understand that these sorts of reviews always come subject to scrutiny when posted and if I didn't enjoy the feedback and discussion I would never take the time to post them. All the back and forth, positive or negative, I appreciate and given the smart guy that I am lol I can make my own conclusions based on the discussion by doing other/further research on/offline as this stuff really does interest me when i'm not about my daily activities and married life Click here to enlarge

    In any case, I'll provide more data down the road in all sorts of conditions, that's a given and I'm hoping to learn more down the road from very informative theoretical posts that you post as well as real world scenarios, in the end seeing advantages of both.

    One thing I would try to ask from anyone is to honestly ask themselves, if this was another reputable vendor's FMIC offering that cost more than it does would it require this much discussion/scrutiny over the results Click here to enlarge No one needs to answer that obviously but sometimes there are cheaper alternatives that get the job done as well and this one "may" be one of them...let's just keep an open mind to any sort of modification and attack it where it needs to be attacked, both theoretical and real world scenarios/levels, and not make irrational comments along the lines of what's been blindly said before (e.g. ebay intercoolers and chinese made) as I personally see no real educational value in those statements that could really benefit everyone in the end...ebay is a sales channel for many today and china is also a manufacturer of many high quality things today as well and those topics are NOT and should not be part of this discussion...

    peace!
    Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    Ok, there are two different conversations going on.

    DFBIU isn't stating that the KL isn't a solution. Yes, it works good, depending on how you define "good".

    DFBIU simply likes to know why things work, and what is the perfect scenario. Yes, the difference may be small, but that isn't the point. The point is, the design could be improved upon. This is going to happen regardless of it being expensive, or from a name brand such as AMS, HPF, Helix, etc.

    There is no defending needed. DFBIU and others are weighing their options, and the data is useful. No reason to have arguments that get us nowhere.

    Everyone knows now that KL intercooler is a well performing cost effective solution. Can we agree on that? I also look forward to warm weather testing.

    Thanks for sharing! Click here to enlarge

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Ok, there are two different conversations going on.

    DFBIU isn't stating that the KL isn't a good solution. Yes, it works good.

    DFBIU simply likes to know why things work, and what is the perfect scenario. Yes, the difference may be small, but that isn't the point. The point is, the design could be improved upon. This is going to happen regardless of it being expensive, or from a name brand such as AMS, HPF, Helix, etc.

    There is no defending needed. DFBIU and others are weighing their options, and the data is useful. No reason to have arguments that get us nowhere.

    Everyone knows now that KL intercooler is a well performing cost effective solution. Can we agree on that? I also look forward to warm weather testing.

    Thanks for sharing! Click here to enlarge
    If DBFIU can say the same I'd say I agree.
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Ok, there are two different conversations going on.

    DFBIU isn't stating that the KL isn't a solution. Yes, it works good, depending on how you define "good".

    DFBIU simply likes to know why things work, and what is the perfect scenario. Yes, the difference may be small, but that isn't the point. The point is, the design could be improved upon. This is going to happen regardless of it being expensive, or from a name brand such as AMS, HPF, Helix, etc.

    There is no defending needed. DFBIU and others are weighing their options, and the data is useful. No reason to have arguments that get us nowhere.

    Everyone knows now that KL intercooler is a well performing cost effective solution. Can we agree on that? I also look forward to warm weather testing.

    Thanks for sharing! Click here to enlarge
    I couldn't have said it better.

    Thank you!


    And Dz, keep up the good work!
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  12. #62
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    Btw it's 75 degrees outside in TX today if someone wants some warm temps logs from a Big Tom Style FMIC...
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #63
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    OK guys. You've peaked my interest. I'm going to dyno test the cheaper CX Racing 4" core intercooler to see where it stands. If it does well I'll have no issues suggesting it to customers who are looking to do an IC and save a few dollars in the process. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 01-17-2012 at 08:17 PM.

  14. #64
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    Cool! Just to clarify for others as I'd like to prevent confusion, the CX Racing is the ebay one and it has 2.5" in/out and its core design may be different from the KL Racing (Big Tom) FMIC...same core "size" though...I'll be dynoing on the KL (Big Tom) FMIC soon as well, just waiting on some RB updates from COBB
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Pressure drop is what worried me from day one. I never had a problem with core effectiveness. I want to see the runs in 80F because that is where you will see the turbos suffer the greatest impacts from pressure drop.



    I also said it is nearly impossible to recreate a test on an intercooler when its installed. Dzenno is the closest thing we have to consistent tests, and even then it is hard to do.

    The best way to measure the pressure drop is with a pressure sensor at the inlet and the outlet for both intercoolers. I doubt he will go through those lengths to measure pressure drop.

    As ambient temperature goes up, air density goes down which reduces turbocharger efficiency and increases turbine speed. This is where most of us sit at, hot days with lots of boost and meth. A very cold day is going to help everything, IATs, pressure drop, lower turbine speeds etc...
    I don't have the proper equipment to test but do have a home-made leaf blower style flow bench that will at least offer some insight in to how restrictive the core is relative to say the stock intercooler. I can't imagine it's worse. It may not be up to Helix or CPE standards but at the same time if it is simply better than stock it becomes a viable and less expensive option for those customers who enjoy doing DIY type work. Unfortunately it is difficult for USA made products to compete with cheaper Chinese products but that does not mean all the Chinese products are bad. Only most of them. Click here to enlarge Every now and again you find a diamond in the rough. Some of these guys who are true enthusiasts (Dzenno, BigTom, etc) feel this is a good option so IMHO it's at least worth me trying out for myself. Click here to enlarge

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Cool! Just to clarify for others as I'd like to prevent confusion, the CX Racing is the ebay one and it has 2.5" in/out and its core design may be different from the KL Racing (Big Tom) FMIC...same core "size" though...I'll be dynoing on the KL (Big Tom) FMIC soon as well, just waiting on some RB updates from COBB
    Yes, it may not be up to KL standards but more likely is made in the same Chinese factory and otherwise identical. I'll inspect it when I get it for anything suspect.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes, it may not be up to KL standards but more likely is made in the same Chinese factory and otherwise identical. I'll inspect it when I get it for anything suspect.
    Mr. Burger always doing right by the customer. Click here to enlarge

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes, it may not be up to KL standards but more likely is made in the same Chinese factory and otherwise identical. I'll inspect it when I get it for anything suspect.
    Actually how about this...I can take a few closeup pics of the KL Racing fmic core...if you can do the same when you get it and we can compare..maybe some other customers with helix, ams, hpf, ets, cp-e, and other fmics can do the same...I think it might be great to see closeups of all these to compare and discuss...maybe there are vast differences but maybe not!

    Post your fmic core closeups people, show us those fin designs! Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Actually how about this...I can take a few closeup pics of the KL Racing fmic core...if you can do the same when you get it and we can compare..maybe some other customers with helix, ams, hpf, ets, cp-e, and other fmics can do the same...I think it might be great to see closeups of all these to compare and discuss...maybe there are vast differences but maybe not!

    Post your fmic core closeups people, show us those fin designs! Click here to enlarge
    New thread dedicated to close up pics of the different FMIC options? I got ETS and Godspeed V Mount ready to go. Same dimensions as CX for the most part.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    New thread dedicated to close up pics of the different FMIC options? I got ETS and Godspeed V Mount ready to go. Same dimensions as CX for the most part.
    Good idea, new thread is best...would you mind kicking it off with your pics? I don't have any at the moment but will soon...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I don't have the proper equipment to test but do have a home-made leaf blower style flow bench that will at least offer some insight in to how restrictive the core is relative to say the stock intercooler. I can't imagine it's worse. It may not be up to Helix or CPE standards but at the same time if it is simply better than stock it becomes a viable and less expensive option for those customers who enjoy doing DIY type work. Unfortunately it is difficult for USA made products to compete with cheaper Chinese products but that does not mean all the Chinese products are bad. Only most of them. Click here to enlarge Every now and again you find a diamond in the rough. Some of these guys who are true enthusiasts (Dzenno, BigTom, etc) feel this is a good option so IMHO it's at least worth me trying out for myself. Click here to enlarge
    For the money it is a fantastic option.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  22. #72
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    I did a log today with 13.5 psi of boost on 3-4 gear. (Without meth of course)
    Start temp was 53F and end temp was 70F = 17F rise.
    Not bad for a cheap Chinese intercooler! Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    I did a log today with 13.5 psi of boost on 3-4 gear. (Without meth of course)
    Start temp was 53F and end temp was 70F = 17F rise.
    Not bad for a cheap Chinese intercooler! Click here to enlarge


    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...atbigtom-1.jpg
    when is your car 100% with meth working? pump on his way?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    when is your car 100% with meth working? pump on his way?
    Ask Terry. Click here to enlarge
    I hope I'll have it by the end of March.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    New thread dedicated to close up pics of the different FMIC options? I got ETS and Godspeed V Mount ready to go. Same dimensions as CX for the most part.
    Resurrecting the thread; I hope this idea will be carried through!

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