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Thread: Article: Horsepower Freaks single turbo Stage I N54 upgrade kit progress, startup video - Aiming for $5950 intro price

              
  1. #226
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dan avoN7 Click here to enlarge
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    You obviously have no sense of what it costs to employ a real engineer.. Adapting an existing e46 m3 kit to RHD really isn't too hard to do and did not require any "engineering". They simply fabricated new exhaust manifolds/intakes and used the rest of their parts and engine management (with a few tweaks to an existing tune) from the original kit, that a real engineer created.

    With their 335i turbo kit, they had a local fabricator (note I said fabricator, not engineer) make an exhaust manifold for them. The difference in approach, when compared to their e46 kit, was vastly different and it showed in the end product.
    Ya dude what did was super easy which is why nobody else is selling the same thing right?

    I'm sure you love talking about how easy things are on paper that they are doing as if you are an expert in what HPF does or does not do as if you work there.

    Where's your turbo kit?

    No kidding the N54/S54 require different approaches.

    The fact remains they make millions and employees come and go.

  2. #ADS

  3. #227
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Ya dude what did was super easy which is why nobody else is selling the same thing right?

    I'm sure you love talking about how easy things are on paper that they are doing as if you are an expert in what HPF does or does not do as if you work there.

    Where's your turbo kit?

    No kidding the N54/S54 require different approaches.

    The fact remains they make millions and employees come and go.
    he's saying it's not easy though? (for the n54)

  4. #228
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
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    he's saying it's not easy though? (for the n54)
    He said the RHD kit for the S54 was easy. None of it is easy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    He said the RHD kit for the S54 was easy. None of it is easy.
    easiER.. tuning, intake mani/charge pipe/intercooler, fuelling - done

    weird split twins was the challenge

  6. #230
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
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    And from my days on e90post, most 335 owners strike me as unwilling to drop the necessary coin to buy a HPF product. They spend it all on ridiculous wheels instead. And a ST requires a lot of other mods to make it decent to drive.
    This, the mods needed to make a E92 N54 handle on par with the power running FBO+Meth+E85 made me sell it and get a platform more suitable. Even with the Bilstein/Eibach kit the rear was always to loose, and I guess one need at least sway bars+LSD+the diff lock down kit+solid rear bushings to solve that. I used that money as a down payment instead and I'm 100% certain I got more "performance" out of the money spend that way.
    Click here to enlarge
    Current mods:
    Kline catless exhaust
    997.2/GT2RS IC's
    Cobb E85 custom tune by Mitch
    ID1000 injectors
    Sachs stage 2.5 clutch

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    Why should one care that much about what ANY shop has done for ANOTHER platform when we're in an N54 forum, talking about products for the N54?? That's beyond me.

    If anything, HPF's history and past achievements on OTHER platforms have raised expectations further, making the downfall even more painfull.
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
    Mods: Performance Seats / Performance Exhaust / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / M3 Mirrors / Forge FMIC / QUAIFE LSD / Ohlins R&T / M3 Suspension Parts / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR catted DP / COBB Pro-Tune
    Next: GTS Wing

  8. #232
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    You are speaking as if they don't do ANYTHING but your motor.
    No, he is stating the opposite.

  9. #233
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    Let's not forget that hpf accepted a customer's car what, 4 years ago with the intention of pursuing the n54 which they were hoping was its next big money maker. I know you're wondering how i know that but logic dictates you dont borrow someone's car for three years unless you have a specific business tactic.

    To act like hpf is infallable is foolish, look at apple, the mighty are falling all over the place, reputation only buys you so much, you can't live off the reputation of Steve jobs forever, you need to constantly advance or risk becoming a one hit wonder.

    Now go ahead sticky and give me my negative thumbs for making a logical comment.

  10. #234
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Learn how to use the search function I guess?

    There are no 1000+ horsepower N54's just to save you the trouble.
    That's kind of my point; one that you're horribly missing. This is a discussion about THIS platform, not the S54 or any other BMW engine.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Oh they didn't meet your goals? Do you even know where their development is at? Have you picked up a phone and talked to anyone there or do you prefer to be super negative on forums instead?

    OMG OH NO HPF didn't do what I wanted when I wanted for my motor and instead has big hp on a different motor. They are failures. Cry cry cry baby.
    My goals? No. I assumed THEIR goal was to market a viable single turbo kit for the N54. Did they do that? No. So it was a failure. Not a failure to meet my goals, but a failure to meet theirs. I already described WHY it happened, you can go back and read if you want.

    Who said I was crying about it? You're the one making such a big deal here. Is HPF run by your best friend or something? You're sitting here complaining about people being righteously annoyed at HPF. No one is saying they should be barred from making products, or that their existing products suck, or that the owners are terrible people and should die.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Uh, dude, they do $50+k builds. They clearly have other priorities like, um, MAKING MONEY. It's not an N54 charity, ok?
    Oh come off it; I couldn't give a $#@! if they were $#@!ting gold bricks out their ass. They still failed. Claim it's money, claim it's stubborness, claim it's the mood of their lead that day; that is all MOOT, it is outside the scope, it is not pertinent, it is an ex-parrot (had to go the full Python skit there). Stick to the point here instead of casting my points (and others) as some piss-poor straw man and then arguing with that instead.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    You want someone to devote thousands upon thousands in N54 development for you? Well, good luck with that.

    HPF made a business decision and will sell a tried and true manifold and tuning solution. They already do one platform better than anyone. It isn't their responsibility to push multiple motors in this economy.

    Ya, doing millions of dollars in revenue and being one of the biggest BMW engine builders and tuners out there. What a screw up!
    Did I say they were a screw-up as a company? You're implying I did, but I did not. Please don't put words in my mouth, thanks. Again all of what you said is irrelevant. You want to actually argue here, or are you going to continue to rant and rave about random unrelated $#@! again?

  11. #235
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    He said the RHD kit for the S54 was easy. None of it is easy.
    If a LHD kit was already in existence, then yes; it's a lot easier than creating one from scratch. MUCH easier.

  12. #236
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    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to design a turbo kit or manifold. If you know or can figure out a handful of parameters you can design tuned headers with a few simple high school physics formula's, and turbo manifolds are way simpler. I've made plenty of homemade systems. As long as you plan it out, measure, and have knowledge of turbo systems and the car you can put together some kickass hardware. A couple people here have done just that...

    Whatever reason they backed out of the N54 wasn't because of hardware, or lack of an epic engineer to design it, or anything like that. It was either financial or tuning related, or a combination thereof, regardless if you believe tuning is their job or not. A $6,000 kit with no dyno numbers won't sell, or they believe it wont, because at that point it's not a kit it's simply a box of parts that can be had cheaper if you do it yourself. Pre turbo O2, post turbo O2, these things make very little difference when designing the manifold, but huge differences for tuning and reliability. I remember them working on a port setup to try to address the stock fuel system, which went nowhere that I know of but shows they put in some pretty major efforts to work out a tune on their own. It's not their job to give you guys a play by play, especially if learning cost them a lot that they will not be able to recoup. Pick up a phone and called them or drive out to visit them if you really want an answer, but it doesn't matter in the scope of things. The forums aren't the end all be all to information, and nobody is required to post anything, many do not. Everyone arguing on this page has some sort of complex, be it "N54 is holier than thou", or "I'm holier than thou". Give it up already, yeesh.

    I apologize for resurrecting this page, now can it die already? Click here to enlarge

  13. #237
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
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    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to design a turbo kit or manifold. If you know or can figure out a handful of parameters you can design tuned headers with a few simple high school physics formula's, and turbo manifolds are way simpler. I've made plenty of homemade systems. As long as you plan it out, measure, and have knowledge of turbo systems and the car you can put together some kickass hardware. A couple people here have done just that...

    Whatever reason they backed out of the N54 wasn't because of hardware, or lack of an epic engineer to design it, or anything like that. It was either financial or tuning related, or a combination thereof, regardless if you believe tuning is their job or not. A $6,000 kit with no dyno numbers won't sell, or they believe it wont, because at that point it's not a kit it's simply a box of parts that can be had cheaper if you do it yourself. Pre turbo O2, post turbo O2, these things make very little difference when designing the manifold, but huge differences for tuning and reliability. I remember them working on a port setup to try to address the stock fuel system, which went nowhere that I know of but shows they put in some pretty major efforts to work out a tune on their own. It's not their job to give you guys a play by play, especially if learning cost them a lot that they will not be able to recoup. Pick up a phone and called them or drive out to visit them if you really want an answer, but it doesn't matter in the scope of things. The forums aren't the end all be all to information, and nobody is required to post anything, many do not. Everyone arguing on this page has some sort of complex, be it "N54 is holier than thou", or "I'm holier than thou". Give it up already, yeesh.

    I apologize for resurrecting this page, now can it die already? Click here to enlarge
    I agree with nearly all of your points. But two things to keep in mind: No one is saying the forums are the be all to information and nobody is saying HPF is REQUIRED to post anything. I have no idea where anyone got that idea. They're free to do stupid $#@! all they want just as we're free to ridicule them for it.

  14. #238
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
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    Why should one care that much about what ANY shop has done for ANOTHER platform when we're in an N54 forum, talking about products for the N54?? That's beyond me.

    If anything, HPF's history and past achievements on OTHER platforms have raised expectations further, making the downfall even more painfull.
    Probably because maybe they are paying attention to that other platform instead? N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 N54 there's more to the BMW world.

  15. #239
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by pits200 Click here to enlarge
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    Let's not forget that hpf accepted a customer's car what, 4 years ago with the intention of pursuing the n54 which they were hoping was its next big money maker. I know you're wondering how i know that but logic dictates you dont borrow someone's car for three years unless you have a specific business tactic.

    To act like hpf is infallable is foolish, look at apple, the mighty are falling all over the place, reputation only buys you so much, you can't live off the reputation of Steve jobs forever, you need to constantly advance or risk becoming a one hit wonder.

    Now go ahead sticky and give me my negative thumbs for making a logical comment.
    No tuner is perfect. The almighty Shiv has had a ton of things go wrong and so what?

    One hit wonder?

    Clueless:

    Click here to enlarge

    Everyone judging based on the N54 platform solely is an idiot.

  16. #240
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
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    If a LHD kit was already in existence, then yes; it's a lot easier than creating one from scratch. MUCH easier.
    Still not easy. And someone had to get a kit to begin with. And somebody also was and is the driving force for S54 turbo setups.

  17. #241
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
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    That's kind of my point; one that you're horribly missing. This is a discussion about THIS platform, not the S54 or any other BMW engine.
    And I keep trying to tell you the point that you are horribly missing which is HPF made their name with another motor and their success on it is what is driving demand for them to pursue the N54. Their shop is filled with E46 M3's, ok?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
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    My goals? No. I assumed THEIR goal was to market a viable single turbo kit for the N54. Did they do that? No. So it was a failure. Not a failure to meet my goals, but a failure to meet theirs. I already described WHY it happened, you can go back and read if you want.
    They haven't failed in anything as they haven't sold you anything. Where their development is at is their business. IT'S THEIR BUSINESS. So they are making the best business decisions for themselves. Let Vishnu and others work the kinks out while they sell their kits they already developed.

    Maybe you should read my interview with Chris and see his comments on the N54. It isn't his focus. You and others are acting like the N54 should be.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
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    Oh come off it; I couldn't give a $#@! if they were $#@!ting gold bricks out their ass. They still failed.
    Running a successful BMW tuning business is failing just because they don't devote everything to your motor? Right.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
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    Did I say they were a screw-up as a company? You're implying I did, but I did not.
    Saying they failed when they aren't even finished yet is essentially saying they screwed up. Yep.

  18. #242
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    So in a nutshell, this thread should just be deleted. Sounds easy enough. They can make another when ready and it will solve all the bickering in the interim.

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    ^holy crap yes finally someone with some sense

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    2JZ

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    And I keep trying to tell you the point that you are horribly missing which is HPF made their name with another motor and their success on it is what is driving demand for them to pursue the N54. Their shop is filled with E46 M3's, ok?



    They haven't failed in anything as they haven't sold you anything. Where their development is at is their business. IT'S THEIR BUSINESS. So they are making the best business decisions for themselves. Let Vishnu and others work the kinks out while they sell their kits they already developed.

    Maybe you should read my interview with Chris and see his comments on the N54. It isn't his focus. You and others are acting like the N54 should be.



    Running a successful BMW tuning business is failing just because they don't devote everything to your motor? Right.



    Saying they failed when they aren't even finished yet is essentially saying they screwed up. Yep.
    Sticky its only fair to say that they have so far failed to bring any N54 turbo kit to market. Whether that failure is due to them being busy with other projects (likely true) or they realized the complexity of dealing with the electronics/DI of the N54 isn't worth it to them (possible), they still haven't brought it to market.

    That doesn't make them a failure of a BMW tuning shop (you're putting words in their mouth with that) but it does mean that they have failed so far to bring anything to market. You're inflating what is being said to imply that HPF in total is a failure which obviously isn't true.

  22. #246
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasBoosted Click here to enlarge
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    Sticky its only fair to say that they have so far failed to bring any N54 turbo kit to market.
    That does not mean they never will.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasBoosted Click here to enlarge
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    That doesn't make them a failure of a BMW tuning shop (you're putting words in their mouth with that)
    People are calling them that or saying they embarrassed themselves when they are flat out kicking ass at the top end of the spectrum making power the N54 can only dream about.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Still not easy. And someone had to get a kit to begin with. And somebody also was and is the driving force for S54 turbo setups.
    I guess it depends on what you call easy. Words like easy, hard, hot, cold, etc are all relative to the person who uses them. Adapting a kit with small adjustments is A LOT easier than creating one from scratch. And the point of the person who mentioned the RHD kit being easy compared to the LHD was used as evidence to support the claim that HPF lost the engineers that did the original design; not to contest whether it was designed in the beginning.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    And I keep trying to tell you the point that you are horribly missing which is HPF made their name with another motor and their success on it is what is driving demand for them to pursue the N54. Their shop is filled with E46 M3's, ok?
    Who cares about E46 M3s when it concerns the N54? This discussion is about the N54 and HPF's relation to it; nothing more, nothing less.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    They haven't failed in anything as they haven't sold you anything. Where their development is at is their business. IT'S THEIR BUSINESS. So they are making the best business decisions for themselves. Let Vishnu and others work the kinks out while they sell their kits they already developed.
    I completely agree! Seriously, this is what I'm saying. But they still tried, and they failed because they half-assed it and didn't research it. I know you don't read E90post for good reason, but there was a substantial amount of warnings posted over their manifold design that they outright IGNORED.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Maybe you should read my interview with Chris and see his comments on the N54. It isn't his focus. You and others are acting like the N54 should be.
    No, I'm not. I don't care if HPF never makes an N54 part again. I'm criticizing their behavior regarding THIS mistake or screwup. You're assuming what my position is without enough evidence. Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Running a successful BMW tuning business is failing just because they don't devote everything to your motor? Right.
    Right. Because that's totally what I said. Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Saying they failed when they aren't even finished yet is essentially saying they screwed up. Yep.
    Ok, so you want to split hairs then? Then they failed on this iteration of their turbo kit; and they disappeared after promising to make a better iteration. Happy now?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
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    2JZ
    no$#@!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
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    This, the mods needed to make a E92 N54 handle on par with the power running FBO+Meth+E85 made me sell it and get a platform more suitable. Even with the Bilstein/Eibach kit the rear was always to loose, and I guess one need at least sway bars+LSD+the diff lock down kit+solid rear bushings to solve that. I used that money as a down payment instead and I'm 100% certain I got more "performance" out of the money spend that way.
    I haven't started modding, but I did some calculations and it seems that this is the case. I would be playing more than half the car's price! Not saying that I am not going to go down that road, but it makes me wonder if it would be worth it, since there aren't that many people who have modded the car to the point you have mentioned.

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