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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why not?
    Anything is possible - just depends where the pump is located. Not hard to fab some custom brackets and hang it near an ancillary.

  2. #52
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    don't s65 kits run a dedicated supercharger belt? or, is an existing belt path altered to accept the supercharger?

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    don't s65 kits run a dedicated supercharger belt? or, is an existing belt path altered to accept the supercharger?
    I think there are different approaches to this.

  4. #54
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    It would seem I'm going to have to do a dry sump setup as there is no other proper way to solve this lubrication problem. This build is really starting to get up there.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It would seem I'm going to have to do a dry sump setup as there is no other proper way to solve this lubrication problem. This build is really starting to get up there.
    I'm not gonna say it....

    But I will say this - it (dry sump) should have been spec'd from the very beginning and not an afterthought that gets added to the build towards the end....especially if this is a know issue with the S65. I'd be very skeptical of whomever is overseeing you build as this should have been addressed and discussed in the very beginning.

    Just a thought.....but would it make sense to get this thing wrapped up ASAP and sell it so you can move on to something less costly that might make more (reliable) power ? I'm thinkin low mileage C63 with a blower ?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    it (dry sump) should have been spec'd from the very beginning and not an afterthought that gets added to the build towards the end....especially if this is a know issue with the S65. I'd be very skeptical of whomever is overseeing you build as this should have been addressed and discussed in the very beginning.
    To be perfectly honest, they are the only ones who actually have brought this issue to the forefront.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Just a thought.....but would it make sense to get this thing wrapped up ASAP and sell it so you can move on to something less costly that might make more (reliable) power ? I'm thinkin low mileage C63 with a blower ?
    If I'm going to move to something else it will be something exotic I think. I do intend to get this wrapped up to move on to something else though.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    To be perfectly honest, they are the only ones who actually have brought this issue to the forefront.
    All the more reason they should have addressed it earlier. Whenever I mod a motor or build one, oiling and cooling are the first to be addressed.



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If I'm going to move to something else it will be something exotic I think. I do intend to get this wrapped up to move on to something else though.
    This is the sound of Underground ? Click here to enlarge I've thought about sending them my BS. It'd be the only one that I know of...

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    All the more reason they should have addressed it earlier. Whenever I mod a motor or build one, oiling and cooling are the first to be addressed.
    They are addressing it at least. What about these other kit makers who keep pointing to others "tunes" as causing problems or forcing owners to sign NDA's so they can't reveal if they have motor issues?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    This is the sound of Underground ? I've thought about sending them my BS. It'd be the only one that I know of...
    I wouldn't mind an R8 with turbos and some cheap/reliable daily driver...

    I've poured enough money into this car that I should already have one.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    To be perfectly honest, they are the only ones who actually have brought this issue to the forefront.
    I didn't want to sound like a hater in Raz's thread and didn't say this in the first hand. No on ever mentioned anything about this. Also the oiling system for S65B44 is identical to B40, if there was a problem with it BMW would do some changes on S65B44.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    If I'm going to move to something else it will be something exotic I think. I do intend to get this wrapped up to move on to something else though.


    To be honest you follow the same route as GT3-Ranger. You could get a SC kit for S85 and kill %99.9 of BMW's on the road or even you could cut the BS and ride a +1000 HP Vette.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They are addressing it at least. What about these other kit makers who keep pointing to others "tunes" as causing problems or forcing owners to sign NDA's so they can't reveal if they have motor issues?
    I'd say those other kit makers are lucky AMG owners don't driver Bimmers - they'd have riots in their parking lots. LOL



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I wouldn't mind an R8 with turbos and some cheap/reliable daily driver...

    I've poured enough money into this car that I should already have one.
    So we should call you Jr. JRcart ? Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I didn't want to sound like a hater in Raz's thread and didn't say this in the first hand. No on ever mentioned anything about this. Also the oiling system for S65B44 is identical to B40, if there was a problem with it BMW would do some changes on S65B44.
    I don't think BMW would do changes for the B44 as then that would lead to a redesigned system available that they may be forced to adapt to all the 4.0 liter S65's out there and would essentially be admitting something is wrong. So, they would rather just replace the motor.

    Remember, BMW cheaped out as the S85 had a dry sump setup.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    To be honest you follow the same route as GT3-Ranger. You could get a SC kit for S85 and kill %99.9 of BMW's on the road or even you could cut the BS and ride a +1000 HP Vette.
    I like Vettes but I have to have a car that will promote the GermanBoost network.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    So we should call you Jr. JRcart ?
    Oh no, definitely have not gone that far. If I could do it over again though...

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Remember, BMW cheaped out as the S85 had a dry sump setup.
    Which S85's? prototypes?

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Which S85's? prototypes?
    The production S85.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't think BMW would do changes for the B44 as then that would lead to a redesigned system available that they may be forced to adapt to all the 4.0 liter S65's out there and would essentially be admitting something is wrong. So, they would rather just replace the motor.

    Remember, BMW cheaped out as the S85 had a dry sump setup.



    I like Vettes but I have to have a car that will promote the GermanBoost network.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The production S85.
    That sounds like a good motor. Did they make it in a 2 door or just the M5?

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The production S85.
    $#@!, i really didn't S85 had dry sump setup.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH
    That sounds like a good motor. Did they make it in a 2 door or just the M5?
    Yes, M6.



  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    $#@!, i really didn't S85 had dry sump setup.

    Yes, M6.



    Ehhh. No thx. Not in the M3 huh ? too bad that would be sick.

    Whoever had this built is a bad ass.


  18. #68
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    Gintani discusses S65 V8 (E9X M3) engine issues, weaknesses, and defects - Will BMW do a recall?

    There have been a surprising number of S65 V8 failures. Some of these have been with supercharged motors and often times fanboys and tuners alike would engage in a mud slinging campaign pointing to a competing tuner as the reason for the failure. The fact of the matter is, the S65 V8 seems to have an inherent weakness. It's wet sump oiling system does not seem to evenly lubricate the bearings which eventually leads to a failure.

    This issue is not just seen on supercharged cars but stock cars as well. We have been speaking about Sal@evolve and here is what he had to say:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sal[MENTION=1803
    evolve]We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
    Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

    On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

    We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

    Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

    To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

    This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

    While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

    I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.
    Sal believes there is a defect that affects cylinder 5. Gintani in the video mentions an issue with the rods of the back cylinders. Sal believes it is an issue in the head. It may be a combination of these factors but it is worth exploring.

    What we do know is stock cars have failed. We do know the oil system does not seem to be up to par especially for motors driven hard. We know bearings are wearing unevenly. We know BMW did change part numbers on some of the bearings. We know BMW is replacing failed motors that have not violated their warranty with no questions asked. This is all strong evidence of a design defect.

    Since there does seem to be a problem, will BMW do a recall? The answer is likely not. It is cheaper for BMW to replace the failed motors and simply wait this issue out until all warranties have expired. Redesigning the oil system is not something the BMW M of today will do. With the S54, the bearing defect in the motor was fixed with a recall due to pressure from the internet and the issue being made widely known.

    We have evidence in the past that BMW is not perfect and makes mistakes. BMW is interested in profit above all else, that much is certainly clear. The only way for any of the issues with the S65 V8 to be corrected is for the community to pull together and begin documenting these failures. However, most tuners seem to be interested in taking advantage of any motor that fails which happens to be running a competing tune or kit and leveraging this against them instead of getting to the root of the issue.

    Gintani has their own solution that we will not delve into further but it will be applied to the BimmerBoost.com M3. The reality of the situation though is to properly address a weak point in the oiling system it should be made a dry sump oil system. Not a cheap solution, but the proper one. Check out the Gintani video below.

    Click here to enlarge


  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The reality of the situation though is to properly address a weak point in the oiling system it should be made a dry sump oil system. Not a cheap solution, but the proper one.
    Would it be possible to use the S85's dry sump system in the S65? I'm sure it would require some fabbing, but looking at part costs, it should still be substantially cheaper than the $7k option (if it is possible).
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by doogle Click here to enlarge
    Would it be possible to use the S85's dry sump system in the S65? I'm sure it would require some fabbing, but looking at part costs, it should still be substantially cheaper than the $7k option (if it is possible).
    Certainly something to look into. I don't know if it is that simple.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Since there does seem to be a problem, will BMW do a recall? The answer is likely not. It is cheaper for BMW to replace the failed motors and simply wait this issue out until all warranties have expired. Redesigning the oil system is not something the BMW M of today will do. With the S54, the bearing defect in the motor was fixed with a recall due to pressure from the internet and the issue being made widely known.

    We have evidence in the past that BMW is not perfect and makes mistakes. BMW is interested in profit above all else, that much is certainly clear. The only way for any of the issues with the S65 V8 to be corrected is for the community to pull together and begin documenting these failures. However, most tuners seem to be interested in taking advantage of any motor that fails which happens to be running a competing tune or kit and leveraging this against them instead of getting to the root of the issue.
    Mmmm...seems like someone may need to start a class action, like the AMG M156 lawsuit. Unlike the M156 class action lawsuit, there seems to be more reported failures and visual evidence on the internet.


  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Mmmm...seems like someone may need to start a class action, like the AMG M156 lawsuit. Unlike the M156 class action lawsuit, there seems to be more reported failures and visual evidence on the internet.
    What I was thinking....

  23. #73
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    A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up (we can change this to cylinder 5 for now). The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.Click here to enlarge

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    don't s65 kits run a dedicated supercharger belt? or, is an existing belt path altered to accept the supercharger?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think there are different approaches to this.
    and your kit?

    what i'm getting at is,

    is there physically enough room between the end of the crank and the rad to fit an extra 2 belt paths? ie, one for a supercharger and one for a dry sump drive?

  25. #75
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    Honestly you really have to look at the number of kits sold vs number of blown motors for each company. Not for nothing but this is why I went with ESS, no excuses in this regard. If these problems plagued the S65, wouldnt cars with ESS blowers have blown up as well in the very same fashion? Im not an ESS fanboy, nor Gintani - I'm always been pretty objective when it comes to this kind of stuff; but instead of looking into problems with the S65 some companies should look into their own kit and see why blowing motors is a common trend in the cars they touch. Now everyone is on a scare thinking the S65 isnt a reliable motor etc, there are MANY people out there who have strapped an AA or ESS blower on their car and have not had a single issue (after seeing Akash continuously beat the hell out of his car I have no doubt in my mind the AA kit is a very reliable piece, and the ESS kits I think speak for themselves). These instances are the exception, not the rule when it comes to this car.

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