Close

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 57

Thread: N54 Con Rods

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Rep Points
    219.0
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Why lower c.r.??
    You will loose power.
    I understand it. At ambient temperature 20C+ the detonation begins at 17.5psi with meth

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    FWIW, I talked to Rob@Cobb yesterday about a 3bar map sensor and he saidhes already got the tables for the MAP scaler and offset so tuning with one won't be an issue...I'm thinking a tmap from an N63/S63 (they run 1.9-2bar stock) might be plug and play in terms of fitment or as Rob says tge one off of Mini might also work..
    Good to know.

    I've said this already, but your boost pressure info for N63/S63 is wrong. The max boost N63 runs is 11.6psi.
    S63B44 runs max 17psi, even S63B44Tü runs no more than 22psi. So the max boosts for the family of these engines are in between 0.8 - 1.5 bars.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tomaz Click here to enlarge
    I understand it. At ambient temperature 20C+ the detonation begins at 17.5psi with meth
    Too little meth? Which nozzle(s)? 100% meth or less?

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Too little meth? Which nozzle(s)? 100% meth or less?
    regardless, thats why they make racefuels. I wouldnt lower CR at this point in the game if i had to rebuild the motor..

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Rep Points
    219.0
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Too little meth? Which nozzle(s)? 100% meth or less?
    I've try all setups and mixes. 100%, 80/20, 70/30, 50/50 etc. Dual nozzle, single nozzle...

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tomaz Click here to enlarge
    I understand it. At ambient temperature 20C+ the detonation begins at 17.5psi with meth
    I think this is not normal. Can there be something that is a problem compared to other RB users. I believe most are able to run more boost without detonation. Could be anyhing, nozzle locations, meth pump, intercooler, DPs..

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    thats about what i was seeing on 100% meth and DO14 nozzle, 93 octane

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    341
    Rep Points
    538.0
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I have run the car on full load with 550whp minimum for stretches longer than 1km and the motor seems to be ok with it.
    It may still be a concern if you use the car for circuit racing where you will use that power for much longer stretches. If I do three laps on the Nürburgring, then we're talking about 64 kilometers where you use the engine in the upper rev range. Granted, not all of that is at full throttle obviously, but my point is that it's still much more of a stress situation than one or two drag races.

    Same may be true if you live in Germany and push your car on an Autobahn without speed limit for some time.

    As both situations may apply to me, I believe that if I were to push the envelope on the RB turbos (which I do not intend to do), I would only be comfortable if I were replacing the pistons and conrods with stronger materials.

    In the UK, Tony aka E92Fan has done such a build but due to his workload has not been able to write about it yet.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Current: R8 V10 2013 S-Tronic, daytona grey, carbon side blades, MTM tune, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: R8 V10 2010 manual, ice silver, grey side blades, MTM tune, MTM air filters, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

    Gone: Alpina B3 E46 3,3

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,322
    Rep Points
    1,955.5
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    It may still be a concern if you use the car for circuit racing where you will use that power for much longer stretches. If I do three laps on the Nürburgring, then we're talking about 64 kilometers where you use the engine in the upper rev range. Granted, not all of that is at full throttle obviously, but my point is that it's still much more of a stress situation than one or two drag races.

    Same may be true if you live in Germany and push your car on an Autobahn without speed limit for some time.

    As both situations may apply to me, I believe that if I were to push the envelope on the RB turbos (which I do not intend to do), I would only be comfortable if I were replacing the pistons and conrods with stronger materials.

    In the UK, Tony aka E92Fan has done such a build but due to his workload has not been able to write about it yet.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    I agree with you but I think in terms of a endurance environment which you mention the chassis will be overwhelmed with that type of power. If you get the brakes and suspension to touring car levels the longevity of the motor might become a issue but the average Joe on the street will never put their car through such circumstances. Even then if you do, decompressing even with RB's will hurt performance so maybe stronger internals for peace of mind with stock compression so you can get out the corners quicker with less lag.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,738
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    If I were rebuilding this motor I would also drop half a point or so. You will be able to sustain higher boost on lower octane without loosing power and worrying about detonation. Its only commong sense, if big power is you goal, 10x compression is not where you want to be. The only reason this car has the compression it does is because boost is lower and the motor is DI, look at other DI platforms going for double outpute power levels, most of the builds lower compression

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    If I were rebuilding this motor I would also drop half a point or so. You will be able to sustain higher boost on lower octane without loosing power and worrying about detonation. Its only commong sense, if big power is you goal, 10x compression is not where you want to be. The only reason this car has the compression it does is because boost is lower and the motor is DI, look at other DI platforms going for double outpute power levels, most of the builds lower compression
    +1, Alpina 9.4 compression N54 pistons...just don't know if those are of same quality, forged or not...that'd be a nice comfy 0.8 compression drop, IMO, perfect with RBs and pump gas...all this depends on your goals with the car obviously..if you want 1000hp eventually i'd go down to 8.5 compression but that'd be a BIG turbo...not really my thing...i'm even debating if much more than 500whp is really usable on the street to be perfectly honest...yes you can always have more but traction really becomes an issue..

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,322
    Rep Points
    1,955.5
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    +1, Alpina 9.4 compression N54 pistons...just don't know if those are of same quality, forged or not...that'd be a nice comfy 0.8 compression drop, IMO, perfect with RBs and pump gas...all this depends on your goals with the car obviously..if you want 1000hp eventually i'd go down to 8.5 compression but that'd be a BIG turbo
    1000hp on the N54 will be a wet dream of note.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Depends on if one plans to use meth or not. Alpina C.R. is meant and fine for no-meth.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    It may still be a concern if you use the car for circuit racing where you will use that power for much longer stretches. If I do three laps on the Nürburgring, then we're talking about 64 kilometers where you use the engine in the upper rev range. Granted, not all of that is at full throttle obviously, but my point is that it's still much more of a stress situation than one or two drag races.

    Same may be true if you live in Germany and push your car on an Autobahn without speed limit for some time.

    As both situations may apply to me, I believe that if I were to push the envelope on the RB turbos (which I do not intend to do), I would only be comfortable if I were replacing the pistons and conrods with stronger materials.

    In the UK, Tony aka E92Fan has done such a build but due to his workload has not been able to write about it yet.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    It is difficult to break the rods with engine torque. The way to break them is downshifting as that is typically where the highest forces hit the rods. And that is independent of the tuning...

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    thats about what i was seeing on 100% meth and DO14 nozzle, 93 octane
    I think I need to look at the logs more carefully then. A pull vs. track session makes a difference as well.

    So, in this case there is not much need to have 3bar MAP sensors for any of the upgrades currently available....?

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I think I need to look at the logs more carefully then. A pull vs. track session makes a difference as well.

    So, in this case there is not much need to have 3bar MAP sensors for any of the upgrades currently available....?
    right, which is why currently, if i had to build a motor, i would keep stock CR as well, we/ they are maxed... stock CR, but forged.. $#@! it if it banged up a bit, they can take it Click here to enlarge

    and this was on any log, 3/4 gr pull or track 2-3-4 grs

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    thats about what i was seeing on 100% meth and DO14 nozzle, 93 octane
    LM, you were getting knock with a DO14 and 100% meth? At what boost? Or did I misunderstand..

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    LM, you were getting knock with a DO14 and 100% meth? At what boost? Or did I misunderstand..
    How much can you boost until knock?

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    LM, you were getting knock with a DO14 and 100% meth? At what boost? Or did I misunderstand..
    on a single meth system, max i could push was about 17.5
    once i did the true duals, i could push 18, but that could have lead to my high rpm misfire mystery.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    on a single meth system, max i could push was about 17.5
    once i did the true duals, i could push 18, but that could have lead to my high rpm misfire mystery.
    And when you added race gas?

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    How much can you boost until knock?
    Depends on ambient temps and on the timing curve...i honestly don't have an exact answer

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    i could do 20 confidently, i think i touhed 21 a few times with no activity. That was all single Do14 though. I would have liked to try on the true dual system. im pretty sure if i did a cm5 or 7 instead of cm10 on 2nd system, i would have been ok and squezed a bit more boost up top

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    It is difficult to break the rods with engine torque. The way to break them is downshifting as that is typically where the highest forces hit the rods. And that is independent of the tuning...
    The metal is subject to more fatigue though, and in case someone is actively going to run in the Ring once a month, or so, so I could see the additional power taxing rods more in the long term. Not much of a concern for an ordinary enthusiast.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,738
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    It is difficult to break the rods with engine torque. The way to break them is downshifting as that is typically where the highest forces hit the rods. And that is independent of the tuning...
    i will disagree. download tq is usually the number one thing that will bend or snap a rod

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    341
    Rep Points
    538.0
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I agree with you but I think in terms of a endurance environment which you mention the chassis will be overwhelmed with that type of power. If you get the brakes and suspension to touring car levels the longevity of the motor might become a issue but the average Joe on the street will never put their car through such circumstances. Even then if you do, decompressing even with RB's will hurt performance so maybe stronger internals for peace of mind with stock compression so you can get out the corners quicker with less lag.
    Well, I guess the people installing RB turbos are not really your average Joe on the street! But I agree with you on that. However, most here - including me - also have invested quite heavily into suspension and brake modifications. A 335i with upgraded turbos runs perfectly fine on the 'Ring, also because of all the elevation changes a lot of torque is quite welcome there.

    IMO going slightly lower in CR (like the Alpina CR discussed here) along with stronger rods might be a good idea in the long run if maxing out the power output of the RBs. Personally I haven't yet made up my mind whether I'll go down that route, as it would mean an investment of another 6-8K EUR to have that done.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Current: R8 V10 2013 S-Tronic, daytona grey, carbon side blades, MTM tune, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: R8 V10 2010 manual, ice silver, grey side blades, MTM tune, MTM air filters, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

    Gone: Alpina B3 E46 3,3

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •