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  1. #1
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    Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2012 results - X5M beats E92 335is around Virginia International Raceway (VIR), TT-RS beats 1M

    We really like the Car and Driver Lightning Lap articles where they take a nice group of cars and run them all on the same roadcourse comparing the laptimes. The 2012 edition includes the X5M which surprisingly outlapped the 335is by over 2 seconds. What else is interesting is that the top speed the X5M hit matched the much lighter BMW 1M although the smaller bimmer did outlap as it should. Something to keep in mind is that VIR is a 4.1 mile long course meaning it is fairly long so power is at a premium.

    The X5M was able to beat several cars which are not even its competition although certainly capable such as the Golf R and 335is and it simply crushed the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 by just over 7 seconds. The X5M was not even far off the lighter Z4 sDrive35is which beat it by less than a second and was not able to hit the same peak speed. This can either be viewed as the X5M being very impressive or the other BMW models which are much lighter needing some work. The 335is is soon to be replaced so we look forward to seeing how the F30 generation stacks up.

    In a stark contrast to all other comparisons that have taken place between the 1M and the TT-RS with the 1M usually setting the quicker laptimes the opposite happened here. The TT-RS in Car and Driver's hands managed to beat the 1M by just slightly under 2 seconds. It also hit a higher peak speed.

    These results are definitely interesting and no doubt will be debated by enthusiasts for some time to come.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Interesting comparisons, but how many people track a bone-stock car? And how much of the lap time has to do with the tires that car was equipped with? I wonder what this list would look like if every car was allowed $1500 in mods? Or maybe 5% of the MSRP in mods? -Neel

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Interesting comparisons, but how many people track a bone-stock car? And how much of the lap time has to do with the tires that car was equipped with? I wonder what this list would look like if every car was allowed $1500 in mods? Or maybe 5% of the MSRP in mods? -Neel
    The list would definitely look radically different but it is interesting to see a comparison of stock cars.

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    This list does not tell you anything actually.
    The experience of the drivers, the knowledge of the track used, tires, mods, all contributing factors to a laptime.
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    This list does not tell you anything actually.
    The experience of the drivers, the knowledge of the track used, tires, mods, all contributing factors to a laptime.
    Same driver I believe and obviously he knows VIR pretty well.

    Expect the cars to have their stock configuration.

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    Wow impresive for the X5M, beat out the 335 thats very impresive indeed. Like stated above the need to find out why a BIGGER and HEAVIER vehicle beat out its cousin.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    Wow impresive for the X5M, beat out the 335 thats very impresive indeed. Like stated above the need to find out why a BIGGER and HEAVIER vehicle beat out its cousin.Click here to enlarge


    Like @Sticky said in the OP, the track is fairly long and you can see some decent straights. The more powerful X5M would make up some time. Now, I am not sure what configuration they used so the straights could even be longer than the map below as you can see by the grayed out lines.




    Click here to enlarge
    ​#Chuckstrong

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    Ya, saw that article in the mag a few days ago...was a bit surprised with the 335is time

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    Wow impresive for the X5M, beat out the 335 thats very impresive indeed. Like stated above the need to find out why a BIGGER and HEAVIER vehicle beat out its cousin.Click here to enlarge
    It's very simple: POWER I got to ride in an X5 M and was shocked at how powerful it was, in a straight line it pulls harder than my 135i w/ JB4 or my brother's E90 M3 (at least at lower speeds, we never got it above 80mph).

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    why isnt a CTS-V ever in any of these comparos?...I bet it would be in the top 5 somewhere too.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    These lightning laps are somewhat flaky. In 2007 the BMW 335i did it in 3:10.5. In 2008 the BMW 135i did it in 3:13.7. So who knows...

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    those 63s can move given enogh room! what is the zr1 one supposed to be compared too on that list? lol

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I run at VIR all the time. The two long straights are not were you make time. It's on the other areas... The longest straight is the back (approx. 4300feet) but you enter that from turn 12 (Oaktree) and the ave. speed through Oaktree is approx. 30-40mph. The front straight is shorter but if you do turn 17 and 17a (Hogpen) properly you enter that straight at approx. 75Mph. Plus, you have some major elevation changes...

    I do have a hard time seeing the X5M being faster on the up-hill 'S', where balance is everything.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    why isnt a CTS-V ever in any of these comparos?...I bet it would be in the top 5 somewhere too.
    It has been run in the past.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dahwich Click here to enlarge
    These lightning laps are somewhat flaky. In 2007 the BMW 335i did it in 3:10.5. In 2008 the BMW 135i did it in 3:13.7. So who knows...
    Agree they do seem to have numbers a bit all over the place.

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    i knew it would be up there at the top of this comparos list if it were run....


    31. Cadillac CTS-V 3:04.00 '09 564 / 1980 Car and Driver


    link here :http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/vi...l_raceway.html

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    ^ Great lap.

    Can't believe how fast that damn Panamera is though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    ^ Great lap.

    Can't believe how fast that damn Panamera is though.
    true...but isnt that the panamera turbo S? the one thats like 20k more than the regular turbo with like 30 more hp?...sooooooooooooo expensive...

  19. #19
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    Just read this issue, seems like they didn't like the dct at all, anyone else notice that? I was surprised at the 335is time as well. That Audi tt rs moves pretty well
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    i knew it would be up there at the top of this comparos list if it were run....


    31. Cadillac CTS-V 3:04.00 '09 564 / 1980 Car and Driver



    link here :http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/vi...l_raceway.html

    Crap, you beat me to it. Oh well, here is the list of all cars on VIR.




    Pos Make / Model Time Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
    1 Mosler MT 900S 02:45.9 0 441 / 1100 Car and Driver
    2 Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 02:48.6 '08 600 / 1536 Car and Driver
    3 Mosler MT900S Photon 02:49.8 '02 441 / 973 Car and Driver
    4 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 02:50.7 '08 647 / 1530
    5 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 02:51.8 '08 647 / 1530 Mark Gillies
    6 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 02:51.8 '10 570 / 1430 Car and Driver
    7 KTM X-Bow 02:52.3 '08 241 / 871 Car and Driver
    8 Nissan GT-R 02:53.2 '11 530 / 1736
    9 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 02:53.5 '11 512 / 1394 Car and Driver
    10 Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 02:53.9 '09 670 / 1664 Mark Gillies
    11 Ferrari 430 Scuderia 02:54.6 '07 510 / 1402 Car and Driver
    12 Nissan GT-R 02:55.6 '08 479 / 1740 Car and Driver
    13 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 02:55.9 '10 450 / 1400 Car and Driver
    14 Dodge Viper SRT-10 02:57.4 '08 612 / 1567 Car and Driver
    15 Porsche 911 Turbo S 02:57.5 '10 530 / 1585 Car and Driver
    16 Ariel Atom 3 02:57.6 '08 300 / 456 Mark Gillies
    17 Mercedes SLS AMG 02:58.0 '10 571 / 1620 Car and Driver
    18 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 02:58.0 0 659 / 1750
    19 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 02:58.2 '05 513 / 1437 Car and Driver
    20 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport C6 02:58.8 '10 436 / 1542 Car and Driver
    21 Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 02:59.5 '09 525 / 1620 Dave Vanderwerp
    22 Ford GT 03:00.7 '04 550 / 1538 Car and Driver
    23 Porsche Panamera Turbo S 03:00.7 0 550 / 0
    24 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 03:01.2 '08 442 / 1459 Car and Driver
    25 Dodge Viper SRT-10 03:01.6 '05 506 / 1600 Car and Driver
    26 Porsche 911 GT3 03:01.8 '06 415 / 1395 Car and Driver
    27 Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS 03:02.8 '12 443 / 1652
    28 Chevrolet Corvette C6 03:03.6 '04 400 / 1470
    29 Porsche Boxster Spyder 03:03.8 '10 320 / 1275 Car and Driver
    30 Porsche Cayman R 03:03.9 '10 330 / 1320
    31 Cadillac CTS-V 03:04.0 '09 564 / 1980 Car and Driver
    32 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 03:04.0 '10 558 / 1712
    33 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe 03:04.2 '11 564 / 1907 Car and Driver
    34 Lotus Exige S 03:04.5 '05 222 / 933 Car and Driver
    35 Audi R8 4.2 FSI quattro 03:04.6 '06 420 / 1560 Car and Driver
    36 Mercedes CLS 63 AMG Perfromance Package 03:04.6 '11 557 / 1919
    37 Audi TT-RS 03:04.8 '12 360 / 1425 Car and Driver
    38 Lotus Exige Cup 260 03:05.0 '08 260 / 890 Car and Driver
    39 Lotus Evora S 03:05.3 '11 351 / 1437
    40 BMW M3 03:05.4 '07 420 / 1619
    41 Lexus IS F 03:05.4 '07 423 / 1732 Car and Driver
    42 Porsche 911 Turbo 03:05.8 '06 480 / 1585 Car and Driver
    43 Porsche 911 Carrera S 03:05.8 '08 385 / 1425 Car and Driver
    44 Porsche Cayman S 03:05.8 '08 320 / 1375 Car and Driver
    45 Shelby GT500 03:05.9 '06 507 / 1807 Car and Driver
    46 Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe Performance Package 03:06.3 '11 494 / 1771
    47 Jaguar XKR 03:06.4 '09 510 / 1865 Car and Driver
    48 Mercedes C 63 AMG 03:06.5 '07 457 / 1772 Car and Driver
    49 BMW 1 Series M Coupe 03:06.6 '11 340 / 1513 Car and Driver
    50 Mercedes E63 AMG 03:06.9 '09 525 / 1765 Car and Driver
    51 Shelby GT500 03:07.4 '10 547 / 1767 Car and Driver
    52 Lotus Evora 03:08.3 '10 280 / 1398 Car and Driver
    53 Audi TT-S Coupe 03:08.4 '08 272 / 1395 Car and Driver
    54 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 03:08.6 '11 412 / 1648 Car and Driver
    55 Jaguar XFR 03:08.9 '09 510 / 1960 Car and Driver
    56 Lotus Elise S2 03:09.2 '06 136 / 877 Car and Driver
    57 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 392 03:09.4 '11 477 / 1933 Car and Driver
    58 Porsche Cayman S 03:09.5 '05 295 / 1406 Car and Driver
    59 Chevrolet Camaro SS 03:09.5 '10 432 / 1750 Car and Driver
    60 BMW M6 03:10.0 '05 507 / 1710 Car and Driver
    61 BMW Z4 sDrive 35is 03:10.4 '10 340 / 1605
    62 BMW 335i Coupe 03:10.5 '06 306 / 1610 Car and Driver
    63 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X SE 03:10.6 '11 295 / 1519 Car and Driver
    64 Audi S4 03:10.8 '09 333 / 1650 Car and Driver
    65 BMW X5 M 03:11.1 '09 555 / 2400
    66 Audi RS4 03:11.2 '05 420 / 1720 Car and Driver
    67 BMW Z4 M Roadster 03:11.7 '06 343 / 1444 Car and Driver
    68 Nissan Nismo 370Z 03:12.0 '09 355 / 1500 Car and Driver
    69 Nissan 350Z 03:12.5 '02 287 / 1532 Car and Driver
    70 Ford Mustang V6 03:12.5 '11 309 / 1571 Car and Driver
    71 Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 03:13.0 '08 260 / 1352 Car and Driver
    72 Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 03:13.3 '08 299 / 1675 Car and Driver
    73 Ford Mustang GT 03:13.3 '10 318 / 1620 Car and Driver
    74 Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 03:13.5 '05 290 / 1482 Car and Driver
    75 BMW 135i Coupe 03:13.7 '07 306 / 1485 Car and Driver
    76 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 03:13.8 '09 310 / 1575 Car and Driver
    77 Subaru WRX STI sedan 03:13.8 '10 300 / 1590 Car and Driver
    78 BMW 335is M Sport 03:13.8 '10 324 / 1659 Car and Driver
    79 Lexus IS F 03:14.0 '07 423 / 1732 Car and Driver
    80 VW Golf R 03:14.0 '10 271 / 1446
    81 Audi S5 03:14.6 '07 354 / 1630 Car and Driver
    82 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 03:14.8 '09 310 / 1575 Car and Driver
    83 Honda S2000 Type S 03:15.0 '07 242 / 1270 Car and Driver
    84 Pontiac Solstice GXP 03:15.7 '06 264 / 1337 Car and Driver
    85 Mazda 3 MPS 03:16.0 '06 260 / 1485 Car and Driver
    86 Mazda 3 MPS 03:16.2 '09 260 / 1456 Car and Driver
    87 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 03:16.3 '09 431 / 1904 Car and Driver
    88 Subaru Impreza WRX 03:16.5 '08 265 / 1468 Car and Driver
    89 Lotus Elise SC 03:16.6 '08 217 / 913 Car and Driver
    90 Mazda RX-8 R3 03:16.7 '09 231 / 1391 Car and Driver
    91 Mini John Cooper Works 03:17.1 '08 211 / 1130 Car and Driver
    92 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 MkII 03:17.4 '11 477 / 2374
    93 Infiniti G37 Coupe 03:17.5 '08 335 / 1710 Car and Driver
    94 Dodge Charger SRT-8 03:18.2 '05 431 / 1887 Car and Driver
    95 Mini Coupé John Cooper Works 03:18.4 '11 211 / 1230
    96 Mazda RX-8 03:19.0 '02 231 / 1400 Car and Driver
    97 Subaru Impreza WRX STI 03:19.0 '07 300 / 1527 Car and Driver
    98 VW Golf GTI Mk. VI 03:19.3 '09 211 / 1318 Car and Driver
    99 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 03:20.6 '05 208 / 1273 Car and Driver
    100 Dodge Caliber SRT4 03:20.8 '08 288 / 1505 Car and Driver
    101 Ford Mustang GT 03:20.9 '04 300 / 1580 Car and Driver
    102 VW Golf Mk V R32 03:21.8 '05 247 / 1510 Car and Driver
    103 Mini Cooper S 03:22.9 '06 174 / 1206 Car and Driver
    104 Honda Civic SI 03:24.1 '06 197 / 1330
    105 Honda Civic Mugen Si 03:24.8 '08 200 / 1337 Car and Driver
    106 VW Golf Mk V GTI 03:25.1 '04 200 / 1303 Car and Driver
    107 Honda Civic SI 03:26.5 '06 197 / 1330 Car and Driver
    108 Volvo C30 T5 03:26.6 '06 220 / 1453 Car and Driver
    109 Mazda MX-5 2.0 MZR 03:29.3 '05 160 / 1150 Car and Driver
    ​#Chuckstrong

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    No surprise at all that the X5M outlapped the 335is.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    true...but isnt that the panamera turbo S? the one thats like 20k more than the regular turbo with like 30 more hp?...sooooooooooooo expensive...
    Just think of it as a mildly tuned Panamera Turbo.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    No surprise at all that the X5M outlapped the 335is.
    Even at 5300+ pounds and being an SUV?

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I enjoy the lighting lap each year but I hate to see the in-consistanceys when doing year to year comparisons. Car and Driver sure does make themselves look like bafoons referencing/comparing year to year times but lacking any mention, or enough mention of weather conditions or driver differences.

    3+ seconds 335is DCT vs 335i 6 speed needs more explanation than "our staff doesn't prefer the DCT."
    6 second 997 GT3 vs 997.2 GT3 RS.. wtf
    9 second difference from ISF slight suspension changes/LSD?
    V6 Mustang (hits governor on 3 sections) faster than Evo, RS4, STi, 135i. I know it's good but...

    If it were my magazine, i'd want to do something more constant with a named pro driver like Randy Pobst and Motor Trend's Laguna Laps.
    Last edited by onurleft; 01-10-2012 at 03:48 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
    Car and Driver sure does make themselves look like bafoons referencing/comparing year to year times but lacking any mention, or enough mention of weather conditions or driver differences.
    Boy did you hit the nail on the head here.

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