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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Simulated Intake Manifold

    I was bored so I simulated an intake manifold for a 4 cylinder. Nothing specific.
    Just a 4 banger with round ports. I threw a compound radius horn on each port
    and an arbitrary plenum volume. TB interface is 2" ID.
    Jammed 1 lbm/s down it's throat at about 5 psi boost (probably equivalent to a 2 liter at 10,000 RPM with 110% VE lol but I did this in 20 minutes so who cares).

    I wanted to see if I could hit within 1% tolerance on pressure of air entering each port, for even cylinder
    filling. I know I know, this is steady state so helmholtz resonance IS NOT being accounted for. But this is a good ballpark estimate for flow distribution in a manifold.

    Inline 6's have an even bigger problem, cylinder 6 is usually really far away from the TB. Or, the TB is directly in the middle and cylinders 3 and 4 are getting more air
    than 1 and 2 and 5 and 6. Anyway. Hope you like the results of this homemade, fictitious, non-existant manifold!

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Streamline pictures are pretty useless but they look cool... Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Hope you like...
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Wanna make me a beast manifold for my N54 without the HPF pricetag? lol

    That looks pretty cool. I'd be interested in seeing the same stuff but for a straight 6 with the TB in the position that it is on the N54. If it's one thing this community sorely lacks it's good images of what is going on and members that know what is happening inside their own engines.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    Wanna make me a beast manifold for my N54 without the HPF pricetag? lol

    That looks pretty cool. I'd be interested in seeing the same stuff but for a straight 6 with the TB in the position that it is on the N54. If it's one thing this community sorely lacks it's good images of what is going on and members that know what is happening inside their own engines.
    That's why we're here. Because I don't trust anyone anymore. Click here to enlarge

    I will do an I6 with roughly the same dimensions as the N54. Mind you, even if I design the best manifold for the car, it may never fit under the hood. You have to compromise packaging.

    The stock manifold is really short, there isnt very much room for good diffusion. Extending it will make it harder to install and might get in the way of the chargepipe.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    I forgot to do this. Tomorrow I'm going to query the mass flows going through each horn. One would think, each horn is getting 0.25 lbm/s...
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Awesome work! Looks very consistent pressure and velocity wise at the ports' entry into the head.

    Modeling the stock intake manifold and then making improvements on it would be really cool.

    So this is ANSYS CFX? What does something like that cost? Or did you get it for free? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    So this is ANSYS CFX? What does something like that cost? Or did you get it for free? Click here to enlarge
    X 2

    Because I would buy this if it's reasonable.....lots of stuff I'd like to "work through"....
    Rep Points > Posts since 2010

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Awesome work! Looks very consistent pressure and velocity wise at the ports' entry into the head.

    Modeling the stock intake manifold and then making improvements on it would be really cool.

    So this is ANSYS CFX? What does something like that cost? Or did you get it for free? Click here to enlarge
    It's about 30k a year for one license. Click here to enlarge

    There are cheaper alternatives, some are free. But getting into CFD requires a lot of dedication. You need to put in the time or your results will mean nothing. For guys like you that are already familiar with fluid systems, you'll catch on really quick.

    Here try these.

    www.openfoam.com
    Free CFD solver, Linux based

    www.salome-platform.org
    Free pre and post processor

    LISA FEA
    Free trial version for a nice FEA package, full version is only 30 BUCKS!!!!
    Note: Does not do CFD, thermal/structural/vibrations only.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Forgot to add, there are cracked versions of all the expensive stuff. But be careful if you use it, you don't wanna know what can happen if you get caught.

    Also, you'll need a CAD modeler to import the geometry into the mesher, and of course you'll need a meshing tool like ANSYS ICEM or equivalent.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    I might of gotten a hold of something (V13) but I need to check it when I get home.

    Thanks for the freeware links too! I'm actually not very familiar with any of this (quit High-school to work early, GED and some college for HVAC cert and math), but I do happen to pick up concepts quickly and understand most basic physical laws pretty well.

    Anyway, hopefully I'll be a self-proclaimed mechanical engineer and turbo system designer by the end of next year. Click here to enlarge

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Forgot to add, there are cracked versions of all the expensive stuff. But be careful if you use it, you don't wanna know what can happen if you get caught.

    Also, you'll need a CAD modeler to import the geometry into the mesher, and of course you'll need a meshing tool like ANSYS ICEM or equivalent.
    What is your favorite CAD modeler? I was right next to the Mastercam booth at PRI this year, and it looked pretty badass!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    What is your favorite CAD modeler? I was right next to the Mastercam booth at PRI this year, and it looked pretty badass!
    Unigraphics NX6 hands down. Pro E is nice too but I prefer UG.

    Mastercam does a lot of design for manufacturing, so unless you intend to actually use the 3D models as inputs for a 5 axis machine you wouldnt need mastercam although it has a modeler built in.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Yeah, no manufacturing..... yet. ($$$, I can dream though..... Click here to enlarge)

    DBFIU thank you so much, I would of never known where to look for such advanced software. Your personal experience is a great help.

    NX8 looks incredible.... let's see what I can find.

    Now I have to learn how to use this stuff!

  13. #13
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    you can download all autodesk stuff for free with nothing but an approved university email address

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, no manufacturing..... yet. ($$$, I can dream though..... Click here to enlarge)

    DBFIU thank you so much, I would of never known where to look for such advanced software. Your personal experience is a great help.

    NX8 looks incredible.... let's see what I can find.

    Now I have to learn how to use this stuff!
    No problem. I am pretty sure you can find NX6, NX8 just came out so it might not be easy to find.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    DFBIU, can you setup your simulation like this?



    I'm curious to see how the port velocities and pressure of your manifold are affected with simulated intake valves.

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    Yes that is an unsteady CFD simulations using helmholtz resonance. This type of analysis is called a transient analysis which takes a long time to set up and run.

    I tend to not like Solidworks for FEA because although it is very very user friendly, it isn't as powerful as ANSYS.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Yes that is an unsteady CFD simulations using helmholtz resonance. This type of analysis is called a transient analysis which takes a long time to set up and run.
    So helmholtz takes into consideration the frequency and magnitude of air compression and resulting change in flow? (not sure how to say that right)

    Thanks for explaining that. I wish I could digitize a stock N54 head and simulate different conditions and changes to see where to go from there......

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    So helmholtz takes into consideration the frequency and magnitude of air compression and resulting change in flow? (not sure how to say that right)

    Thanks for explaining that. I wish I could digitize a stock N54 head and simulate different conditions and changes to see where to go from there......
    Yes exactly. Helmholtz gets taken into consideration how the airs springy properties begin to affect flow. The air in the plenum of a car, during operation acts like a big spring, if you tune that spring correctly it will push more air into the cylinders at just the right time.

    This is called ram tuning and naturally aspirated engines need this to be able to exceed 100% VE. An NA engine when designed properly will produce it's own boost in the intake ports.

    http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/Helmholtz.html

    To simulate that is not easy and requires a lot of data to back up your model. One of my coworkers from my old job was a Nascar CFD analyst and she told me that even with the best simulations, they still had to run tests to verify performance. The simulations a lot of times, for very complex physics like this, will only be valid within a small operating range.

    For general steady CFD like what you see in a picture, it is very useful to get a ballpark estimate of flow distribution.

    You can even model particle injection, hint hint.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Man I wish I could rep you more! There should have to be less spreading, because not everybody shares an equal amount of useful info.....

    Thank you. I know something beneficial will come from this one day. Click here to enlarge

    Just curious, when and how did you learn all of this stuff? And do you really live in Korea?

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    I'd rep you 100 for this Click here to enlarge awesome stuff man, LOOOVE stuff like this...

    in terms of the N54 manifold, maybe we forget about the way it is and how the chargepipe sits...it'd actually be a lot better to eliminate the 90 degree bend at the throttle body and have a manifold that has the throttle body maybe point more towards the intercooler outlet...we'd eliminate 3 bends that way possibly and gain on efficiency, and also be able to use maybe a single pipe with no reducers if you get an FMIC with a 3" outlet as the throttle body is about 3"
    Click here to enlarge

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    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Man I wish I could rep you more! There should have to be less spreading, because not everybody shares an equal amount of useful info.....

    Thank you. I know something beneficial will come from this one day. Click here to enlarge

    Just curious, when and how did you learn all of this stuff? And do you really live in Korea?
    Haha no I don't live in Korea. I live in south florida.

    I learned most of this at work from more experienced people. They never taught us this in university. You have to put in the time.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I'd rep you 100 for this Click here to enlarge awesome stuff man, LOOOVE stuff like this...

    in terms of the N54 manifold, maybe we forget about the way it is and how the chargepipe sits...it'd actually be a lot better to eliminate the 90 degree bend at the throttle body and have a manifold that has the throttle body maybe point more towards the intercooler outlet...we'd eliminate 3 bends that way possibly and gain on efficiency, and also be able to use maybe a single pipe with no reducers if you get an FMIC with a 3" outlet as the throttle body is about 3"
    This is 100% correct. If you get rid of the charepipe and make a manifold with a broad TB inlet you will see big gains in performance.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    This is 100% correct. If you get rid of the charepipe and make a manifold with a broad TB inlet you will see big gains in performance.
    I'll help you help me just let me know what you need hehehe good stuff!
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I'll help you help me just let me know what you need hehehe good stuff!
    If you can 3D scan a stock N54 manifold that would be appreciated!!!

    Click here to enlarge
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    I wish Click here to enlarge
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