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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Take 3 cars, jb3/procede/standback or whateer tune you want.....if boost is the same on those car and the throttle stays open, neither of them wll pull. So pick whatever you want lol and feels the best while providing simple easy features.
    I'm back to working on bogging for you manual guys. Making some solid progress there. Maybe a few months too late to prevent a few of you from getting procedes but don't expect to pick on the rest of the JB3 manual guys for too long. Click here to enlarge

  2. #27
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    yea, i just got the email. Looks like the standback will have two single turbo projects. Hopefully all goes great and they make big power. You call it picking on MT guys, I call it getting you ass into gear lol. Like i stated many times, I dont give a $#@! who make what, as long at it works flawlessly lol.

  3. #28
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    its soo funny to see everyone come around full circle. its even better hearing someone who claims the XXX tune is crap because they can't dial in exactly what they want, now says that they don't actully need it and its too minute of a change to help out, once a better platform comes a little brighter.. I think tunes are about as advanced as they are going to get, or will be by the end of this summer, for basic modded cars.. whats going to change and be a deciding factor is when turbo upgrades are finally available and more common, to see who can tune what and how they then compare to eachother

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    If that's the case, why does the JB3 outperform the PROcede at the track? If shiv's tune is the bombdiggity, why does Terry's setup have more numbers? As for how they all three line up, I'm game any time someone wants to go. I'm fully bolted. Bring a similar car and we'll run. You pick the map, I'll set the boost to be equal and we'll see. It likely won't mean much and be a driver's race.

    This will get VERY interesting when big single snails replace the stock twins...
    Have you been living under a rock the past couple of months? THe jb3 in a AT car is quick no doubt. The mt procedes cars are quicker then the mt jb3 cars. I think I saw 4 procede cars go intot he 11s this month alone. With the fastest trap belonging to shiv at nearly 126mph

    With all due respect, Id clean you up in my car with a dci and meth lol. go the track, try to break 120 with your current tune. You are fully bolted, 5 gallons of race gas, 18 psi, screw the time, go for the trap. I nailed 117 with a dci/meth, stock weight on street tires....full exhaust and a fmic, Gotta be good for 2-3mph no?

    If anybody thinks im being an $#@!, me and jason go way back, its all in good fun lol. We tune together over a couple of beers and usually argue over dumb $#@!.
    Last edited by Laloosh; 05-24-2010 at 07:39 PM.

  5. #30
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    Yah and your're slow shiftin' boggin' ass has no chance against my 3. Come get some when BMW says gtfo with your lemon case lol. Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    Yah and your're slow shiftin' boggin' ass has no chance against my 3. Come get some when BMW says gtfo with your lemon case lol. Click here to enlarge
    lol, looks like im going to have to attend another maryland track day and clean all you up one by one....again. No mind games this time, I dont feel like red lighting again.

  7. #32
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    Got a clutch handy???

  8. #33
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Post Edited due to violation of Guest Vendor rules.

    Adrian and Vishnu, we welcome your participation and have very flexible guest vendor rules when a topic is started by someone else and happens to be about your product. However, this topic is about a CP-E product and it is not fair to supporting vendors who spend considerable time and money here to have Vishnu market at their expense.

    Please do not take this the wrong way as we all appreciate your technical contributions but Vishnu has been given TREMENDOUS leeway and is starting to encroach on territory that weakens the positions of vendors who have supported BB from the beginning. We do not want to make it sound as if we do not want your participation, as we do, however, the focus here is the CP-E Standback and not the Procede.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Hi Guys,

    Sorry for my handwaving argument. I did it in several breaks from my work and my direction changed a little each time, so the post got a little disjointed.

    .
    Thanks for the lucid argument Adrian. I think I'm clearer on the point you're trying to make in comparing the two controllers. I still question whether this argument applies to the Standback, but in an effort to not waste your time arguing over minutia...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Finally, I think our features do make the car faster. A quick survey of the market reveals that Procede V4 is the tune of choice for 6MT. The features we have that are CAN dependant have demonstrated the best throttle control and minimum of throttle closure/bog. That is just one feature. The initial post in this thread reviewed the benefits to throttle response with out CAN boost target input that CP-E have now copied (but not released). I think it is fair to say that this is a benefit to the user, and V4 Procede is the only released product that has it. 100s of user are using it... not just one beta. Procede has the most complete O2 sim solution (required for decats that make the car go faster), intergrated speed limitting (that really does make the car go faster!! Click here to enlarge ). Autotune has the potential to make cars go faster for people who do not want to spend the time optimising the tune.
    I was with you until the quoted section above, especially the part in bold. Your point that the Vishnu is the tune of choice for 6MT cars says nothing of the available options that a car go faster. In fact, are you really going to argue that things like an O2 sim is going to make a car faster...because the driver doesn't have to look at a CEL anymore? Because the presence of a CEL makes the car slower? I see your point that the CEL is gone, but the O2 sim is illegal (http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...aa/casper.html), and I fundamentally disagree that it makes a car faster. I'm sorry, I just don't buy that argument one bit.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    So my points IMHO:

    I like the caveat on the bolded point, lol. Good knowledge? You mean, you have to understand what ignition timing is, and does, and what things like "boost" and "air/fuel" are? I think people that don't understand these concepts shouldn't be performing any end-user tuning anyhow, be it Autotune or otherwise, in which case they would use an OTS map.

    I still can't fathom how anyone could argue that /more/ control over air/fuel, timing, and boost doesn't have the potential to make a car faster than the next car with less control. Have you ever heard of successful engine controllers advertising how little control the end-user has over their car? I hadn't only until you recently suggested it. I agree, some may not go nuts and start adjusting these features, but they're at least available to those that do wish to tinker, which I believe would include many members on this forum. Arguing the contrary just sounds like pure marketing spin to me.

    In the end, I know answering posts like these takes a decent investment in time, so let me say that I appreciate you offering up your opinion on the matter.

  10. #35
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    Maybe offering these things in a BT car will make a difference, however like I said above, All 3 tunes have the ability to max out the stock turbos with no issues at all. What good is the end user adjustment then? None, the boost maps provided by the big two are different but excellent when it comes to making power, tracking. How can I make them better if I am running out of air? I simply can't. Throw a big turbo on there and you can raise the boost to your liking, but so can they. I am not sure where the map sensor ends on this car, but I'm pretty sure either tune can find out with easy. I remember 22.x psi off the top of my head. the procede can run 20psi if the user is stupid enough, I am not sure about the jb3, and i know the standback can run 22psi if you user is stupid enough as well.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    Got a clutch handy???
    Mines fine, did you roast yours using the starter 14psi map?

    Serious Jay, turn it up, thrown in some race gas, hit the track.

  12. #37
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    Post Edited due to violation of Guest Vendor rules.

    Adrian and Vishnu, we welcome your participation and have very flexible guest vendor rules when a topic is started by someone else and happens to be about your product. However, this topic is about a CP-E product and it is not fair to supporting vendors who spend considerable time and money here to have Vishnu market at their expense.

    Please do not take this the wrong way as we all appreciate your technical contributions but Vishnu has been given TREMENDOUS leeway and is starting to encroach on territory that weakens the positions of vendors who have supported BB from the beginning. We do not want to make it sound as if we do not want your participation, as we do, however, the focus here is the CP-E Standback and not the Procede.

  13. #38
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    Standback

    Hello,

    To those of you who don’t know me I am the lead designer of the CP-E Standback. First off I want to thank you all for your interest in the Standback. Second off I want to try and clear up a few misconceptions, but as I do please keep this in mind:


    First off: Market.
    The Standback, like all of CP-E’s work, is an evolving product. We continue to improve the Standback when it makes sense to, and when market forces dictate that it is beneficial to do so. The Standback is a very powerful platform with the capacity to do many more things for the BMW community, if the community shows a positive response. Why am I going into all of this?

    CP-E has had the Standback running on the N54 platform for quite some time now, (several years) but due to outright censorship and slanderous claims on other BMW forums CP-E has never been able to gain substantial market traction. Faced with an aggressive campaign of slanderous postings, and little US market, the N54 adaptation of the unit has been a low priority. That is the past. What the future brings is largely dependant on the BMW community. There is a TON more capability “left” inside the Standback, and if the BMW community shows interest, CP-E will certainly continue with a long list of possible improvements and features.


    Second off: Standback Technology.

    CP-E technology can’t be beat. Period. I lay my paycheck on the line to anyone who can prove differently. We use technology that exceeds most the OEM’s ECU’s much less others piggybacks. The Standback is the most technologically advanced piggyback out there, bar none. Don’t take my word for it – take it apart and look. The Standback design is rooted in stand-alone technology, hence its name. You will find more technology in the Standback, and more cost, than any other piggyback out there. This is not debatable. I will give this to the other units out there; they do cost less to build – so they enjoy an even higher profit margin J

    Yes we can control the AFR, Yes we can control the timing, Yes we can control the boost. We support Meth injection, or additional injector support. We allow control for the fuel pressure, and we do have CAN bus support, which we plan to expand on. All of this is put into the user’s hands, and as Adrian has pointed out, in foolish hands this tool can be dangerous. So can your kitchen knives be. We suggest keeping a level head when using either.

    I am not going to get into a rock throwing match over who’s unit has what features, as this is senseless. The possibilities for the Standback are still very wide open, as CP-E has a dream-team of in house electrical and mechanical engineering. We can make just about anything a reality, if the community supports is there. Piggybacks are a small part of our overall expertise, for example you will be seeing the first full-stand alone plug-in-OEM replacement DI ECU brought to the Mazda community by CPE later this year. This is only made possible by because of the honest and fantastic support of the Mazda community. In return CP-E has put a lot of resources in to the Mazda community. We hope to do the same for the BMW community, but the success of this project depends on honest and objective support – not an area that we have been lucky with so far.

    We look forward to providing the BMW community with the best USA designed and built electrical and mechanical components possible, and we thank you for your continued support.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I've been talking with Andrew for awhile about it. With some hardware changes we could do it but for what they are looking to do I really think the standback is the perfect fit. The combination of fully independent boost control and complete table by table tuning access has single turbo kit written all over it! Click here to enlarge
    Correct and you didn't even toot your own horn. Glad to see you have no qualms about recommending a competitor for a different application which you feel their approach may be more suited to, nice.

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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by louloulou Click here to enlarge
    Hello,

    To those of you who don’t know me I am the lead designer of the CP-E Standback. First off I want to thank you all for your interest in the Standback. Second off I want to try and clear up a few misconceptions, but as I do please keep this in mind:


    First off: Market.
    The Standback, like all of CP-E’s work, is an evolving product. We continue to improve the Standback when it makes sense to, and when market forces dictate that it is beneficial to do so. The Standback is a very powerful platform with the capacity to do many more things for the BMW community, if the community shows a positive response. Why am I going into all of this?

    CP-E has had the Standback running on the N54 platform for quite some time now, (several years) but due to outright censorship and slanderous claims on other BMW forums CP-E has never been able to gain substantial market traction. Faced with an aggressive campaign of slanderous postings, and little US market, the N54 adaptation of the unit has been a low priority. That is the past. What the future brings is largely dependant on the BMW community. There is a TON more capability “left” inside the Standback, and if the BMW community shows interest, CP-E will certainly continue with a long list of possible improvements and features.


    Second off: Standback Technology.

    CP-E technology can’t be beat. Period. I lay my paycheck on the line to anyone who can prove differently. We use technology that exceeds most the OEM’s ECU’s much less others piggybacks. The Standback is the most technologically advanced piggyback out there, bar none. Don’t take my word for it – take it apart and look. The Standback design is rooted in stand-alone technology, hence its name. You will find more technology in the Standback, and more cost, than any other piggyback out there. This is not debatable. I will give this to the other units out there; they do cost less to build – so they enjoy an even higher profit margin J

    Yes we can control the AFR, Yes we can control the timing, Yes we can control the boost. We support Meth injection, or additional injector support. We allow control for the fuel pressure, and we do have CAN bus support, which we plan to expand on. All of this is put into the user’s hands, and as Adrian has pointed out, in foolish hands this tool can be dangerous. So can your kitchen knives be. We suggest keeping a level head when using either.

    I am not going to get into a rock throwing match over who’s unit has what features, as this is senseless. The possibilities for the Standback are still very wide open, as CP-E has a dream-team of in house electrical and mechanical engineering. We can make just about anything a reality, if the community supports is there. Piggybacks are a small part of our overall expertise, for example you will be seeing the first full-stand alone plug-in-OEM replacement DI ECU brought to the Mazda community by CPE later this year. This is only made possible by because of the honest and fantastic support of the Mazda community. In return CP-E has put a lot of resources in to the Mazda community. We hope to do the same for the BMW community, but the success of this project depends on honest and objective support – not an area that we have been lucky with so far.

    We look forward to providing the BMW community with the best USA designed and built electrical and mechanical components possible, and we thank you for your continued support.
    Heh, where have you been? You are now set up as a supporting vendor.

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  16. #41
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    You guys are in trouble now, Lou refuses to see sunlight if there is something that can be improved. All those technical questions some of you asked me about the standback, louloulou is the guy you should be asking.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Post Edited due to violation of Guest Vendor rules.

    Adrian and Vishnu, we welcome your participation and have very flexible guest vendor rules when a topic is started by someone else and happens to be about your product. However, this topic is about a CP-E product and it is not fair to supporting vendors who spend considerable time and money here to have Vishnu market at their expense.

    Please do not take this the wrong way as we all appreciate your technical contributions but Vishnu has been given TREMENDOUS leeway and is starting to encroach on territory that weakens the positions of vendors who have supported BB from the beginning. We do not want to make it sound as if we do not want your participation, as we do, however, the focus here is the CP-E Standback and not the Procede.
    Just want to make BB's stance on supporting vendors and guest vendors quite clear.

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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by louloulou Click here to enlarge
    Hello,

    To those of you who don’t know me I am the lead designer of the CP-E Standback. First off I want to thank you all for your interest in the Standback. Second off I want to try and clear up a few misconceptions, but as I do please keep this in mind:


    First off: Market.
    The Standback, like all of CP-E’s work, is an evolving product. We continue to improve the Standback when it makes sense to, and when market forces dictate that it is beneficial to do so. The Standback is a very powerful platform with the capacity to do many more things for the BMW community, if the community shows a positive response. Why am I going into all of this?

    CP-E has had the Standback running on the N54 platform for quite some time now, (several years) but due to outright censorship and slanderous claims on other BMW forums CP-E has never been able to gain substantial market traction. Faced with an aggressive campaign of slanderous postings, and little US market, the N54 adaptation of the unit has been a low priority. That is the past. What the future brings is largely dependant on the BMW community. There is a TON more capability “left” inside the Standback, and if the BMW community shows interest, CP-E will certainly continue with a long list of possible improvements and features.


    Second off: Standback Technology.

    CP-E technology can’t be beat. Period. I lay my paycheck on the line to anyone who can prove differently. We use technology that exceeds most the OEM’s ECU’s much less others piggybacks. The Standback is the most technologically advanced piggyback out there, bar none. Don’t take my word for it – take it apart and look. The Standback design is rooted in stand-alone technology, hence its name. You will find more technology in the Standback, and more cost, than any other piggyback out there. This is not debatable. I will give this to the other units out there; they do cost less to build – so they enjoy an even higher profit margin J

    Yes we can control the AFR, Yes we can control the timing, Yes we can control the boost. We support Meth injection, or additional injector support. We allow control for the fuel pressure, and we do have CAN bus support, which we plan to expand on. All of this is put into the user’s hands, and as Adrian has pointed out, in foolish hands this tool can be dangerous. So can your kitchen knives be. We suggest keeping a level head when using either.

    I am not going to get into a rock throwing match over who’s unit has what features, as this is senseless. The possibilities for the Standback are still very wide open, as CP-E has a dream-team of in house electrical and mechanical engineering. We can make just about anything a reality, if the community supports is there. Piggybacks are a small part of our overall expertise, for example you will be seeing the first full-stand alone plug-in-OEM replacement DI ECU brought to the Mazda community by CPE later this year. This is only made possible by because of the honest and fantastic support of the Mazda community. In return CP-E has put a lot of resources in to the Mazda community. We hope to do the same for the BMW community, but the success of this project depends on honest and objective support – not an area that we have been lucky with so far.

    We look forward to providing the BMW community with the best USA designed and built electrical and mechanical components possible, and we thank you for your continued support.
    Really glad to see you here! I live in Corpus Christi, Texas, and I'm interested in using the Standback for my N54 135i, which will have a quality FMIC and DCI. Base maps are fine, but I really would like for my car to be optimized for the ambient conditions here, and also the 93octane gas, which currently has 10% ethanol. How would I go about doing this? There is a local dyno here, but I do not trust the owner with tuning my car. Would it be possible for me to email WOT logs of 3rd gear to CP-E and have someone recommend changes, and would you need me to log a with a wide-band as well?

    Thanks for your contribution to the BMW community. I hope your product continues to improve and sells well!

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Really glad to see you here! I live in Corpus Christi, Texas, and I'm interested in using the Standback for my N54 135i, which will have a quality FMIC and DCI. Base maps are fine, but I really would like for my car to be optimized for the ambient conditions here, and also the 93octane gas, which currently has 10% ethanol. How would I go about doing this? There is a local dyno here, but I do not trust the owner with tuning my car. Would it be possible for me to email WOT logs of 3rd gear to CP-E and have someone recommend changes, and would you need me to log a with a wide-band as well?

    Thanks for your contribution to the BMW community. I hope your product continues to improve and sells well!
    I am curious about this as well as I will need a CP-E setup for the dyno comparison day and base maps won't cut it. So how do users go about getting custom tuned maps exactly as you asked?

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  20. #45
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    Hi Lou,

    Nice to talk to you! Quite impressive that BB has been able to collect the hardware designers for the three most popular N54 tuning systems in one forum.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Hi Lou,

    Nice to talk to you! Quite impressive that BB has been able to collect the hardware designers for the three most popular N54 tuning systems in one forum.
    You guys just all obviously have good taste in message boards.

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    THat or the fact they are banned from the others.....

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    THat or the fact they are banned from the others.....
    Apparently the others have management with poor taste and decision making.

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  24. #49
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    For those that have asked Lou questions. He is a very hard person to find spare time for. He typically doesn't come to forums because he is the mad scientist behind ALL of our tuning products. I will do my best to squeeze in the questions and get some things that are better geared for him to comment on. The more he is away - the more development the CAN setup for the standback gets. Last night we had a lot of great additions. Our single turbo projects (plural) will shed A LOT of light on what we are capable of.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Click here to enlarge
    For those that have asked Lou questions. He is a very hard person to find spare time for. He typically doesn't come to forums because he is the mad scientist behind ALL of our tuning products. I will do my best to squeeze in the questions and get some things that are better geared for him to comment on. The more he is away - the more development the CAN setup for the standback gets. Last night we had a lot of great additions. Our single turbo projects (plural) will shed A LOT of light on what we are capable of.
    No doubt the single turbo project will be a big factor in displaying the CP-E product to the masses.

    I just got some nice news on the development progress, great stuff Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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