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  1. #51
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    I don't know man. I wonder if the new one will work for both procede and JB tune. I hope Jeff from Howerton Engineering can chime in. I emailed him the linkClick here to enlarge

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    Took the car out today and even with ambient temps of 40 degrees, my Snow Safeinjection worked for a bit until I started beating on the car and engine temps reached 240ish...I did another run and failsafe didn't work..FML Parked the car for an hour and then tried it out and it worked! lol I know my location of where I have the failsafe is transmitting alot of heat since its metal also and metal on top of metal, well you get the picture! Got pissed off and started the process of installing the Aquamist unit and also relocating the failsafe...Sick and tired of having to jack the car up to get to it! I installed this location when I was a newbie with meth and followed FormerBoostedIS location of mounting the failsafe...Great location but its a failure in terms of getting at it quickly! Well now I will have this nice tiny aquamist unit near the cowl and I will ziptie the unit to the metal support brace underneath cowl. This will be easy access if there needs to be another change in the flow sensor...Keep you posted of my progress. I just jacked the car up on rhino ramps and took the underpanels off. Tomorrow I will swap out the units.
    I bought extra meth lines and bought the resistors that Jeff told me to buy to hook it up. Hopefully it works, if not I have to get the new unit HE505. This sucks balls

  3. #53
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    With +5v on the green wire it should work fine for what you're doing. Just don't expect over flow protection to work properly.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    With +5v on the green wire it should work fine for what you're doing. Just don't expect over flow protection to work properly.
    Yeah I figured that. Anyway I monitor my flow constantly and if there is any slight variations of what the norm is I will notice. I wonder what flow will be using both m10 and M7 will be. Hmmm. The
    Snow unit when both nozzle hit was around 40 flow on procede. Well see what this magic aquamist mini sensor will give me!!!

  5. #55
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    Terry can you answer this

    12 volt wire hooked up to 10k resistor in series to 4.7 k resistor? what is the total power left after the 4.7K resistor?

    10k------4.7K--- (<need to know what value of current is after 4.7k)

    reason I ask is because I am suppose to hook up ground wire to the end of the 4.7K resistor...I am bothered because isnt this going to be a short of some kind? Jeff stated it was such a small short that it wouldnt even matter, something like .0009 amps and it would not fry any components, but I rather here it from another person before I tread foward on this...Please kindly let me know what you think..I have never worked with resistors before and to me connecting a ground wire to a line that has the origins of a 12 volt power in between two resistors, is making me feel apprehensive

  6. #56
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    I'm not quite sure how you connect stuff but get the impression you would like to feed plus 5 volt to the green sensor wire, right?

    Assumed circuit: ignited +12V to a 10 kohm resistor in series with a 4.7 kohm resistor that is connected to ground. The resultant resistance is 10+4.7= 14.7 kohm. The green wire is the connected to the interconnection point between the resistors. We need to remember that the ignited +12 volt actually is about 14 volt when the engine is running.

    The current in the resistor chain will be 14/14.7= 0.95 mA (0.00095 A). This is low enough to not fry the resistors.

    The voltage at the interconnection point will be 14* (4.7/10+4.7)= 4.48 volt. This means that the voltage to the green wire will be 4.48 volt, i.e. 0.52 volt below 5 volt. This voltage will be further reduced if the green wire circuit has some resistance to ground, which becomes parallel connected to the 4.7 kohm resistor so to say. If the green wire is high impedance it will not affect the voltage.

    If you really wanted +5 volt to the green wire I would use a 5.6 kohm resistor instead of 4.7 k. This would give 5 volt to the green wire when the input voltage is 14 volt but 4.48 may be good enough depending of how the flow sensor is done and 4.7 kohm gives some margin to not get more than 5 volt if the car provides a bit higher voltage like 14.5 Volt when the engine is running.

    The metod to use resistor voltage dividers is to be honest not very good if you want a fixed voltage like 5 volt. The voltage will vary from 3.8 V to 4.48 V depending of if the engine is running or not and the charge state of the battery. This may not be critical in your application, I don't know since I don't know how the flow sensor reacts to small voltage changes like that on the green wire. The proper way to create +5 volt from a cars 12 V system, which varies with the charge state and battery condition, headlight load etc., is to use a zener diode and a resistor instead of two resistors. Or a +12V to +5V circuit that delivers a stable +5 V when the input voltage is anything between +10 to +35 V like e.g. the LM309 voltage regulator. http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM309.html#Overview I just meantion this to show how a well controlled +5 V voltage is created in case the voltage is critical like for TTL circuits where it MUST be between 4.75 and 5.25 Volt anytime to work and not fry circuits. The reason LM309 and similar circuits can handle up to +35 V input voltage is there are voltage spikes up to almost this voltage in vehicles so a good voltage regulator is e.g. a must inside the ECU to protect its circuits, and no one would ever come up with the idea to create +5V to ECU components with a simple resistor network. This is not to say it will not work in your case since I don't know what the circuit is behind the green wire in the sensor.

    The best way to check your circuit though is to connect a voltmeter to the green wire (and ground) when it is connected to the resistor network and engine running and measure what it actually is. In case it drops below the about 4.5 V with engine running the 4.7 kohm resistor needs to be increased.

    I hope you didn't get too confused by all info above...
    Last edited by R1000K3; 12-18-2011 at 04:35 AM.

  7. #57
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    Here is a quick drawing in case you want a controlled +5 voltage. This circuit provides a well maintained +5.1 volt source. It may be overkill, but doesn't cost much more than two resistors and provides a much better voltage. It also protects the sensor from voltage spikes.

    The low end of the diode is chassi ground (-12V).
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    Last edited by R1000K3; 12-18-2011 at 05:20 AM.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R1000K3 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not quite sure how you connect stuff but get the impression you would like to feed plus 5 volt to the green sensor wire, right?

    Assumed circuit: ignited +12V to a 10 kohm resistor in series with a 4.7 kohm resistor that is connected to ground. The resultant resistance is 10+4.7= 14.7 kohm. The green wire is the connected to the interconnection point between the resistors. We need to remember that the ignited +12 volt actually is about 14 volt when the engine is running.

    The current in the resistor chain will be 14/14.7= 0.95 mA (0.00095 A). This is low enough to not fry the resistors.

    The voltage at the interconnection point will be 14* (4.7/10+4.7)= 4.48 volt. This means that the voltage to the green wire will be 4.48 volt, i.e. 0.52 volt below 5 volt. This voltage will be further reduced if the green wire circuit has some resistance to ground, which becomes parallel connected to the 4.7 kohm resistor so to say. If the green wire is high impedance it will not affect the voltage.

    If you really wanted +5 volt to the green wire I would use a 5.6 kohm resistor instead of 4.7 k. This would give 5 volt to the green wire when the input voltage is 14 volt but 4.48 may be good enough depending of how the flow sensor is done and 4.7 kohm gives some margin to not get more than 5 volt if the car provides a bit higher voltage like 14.5 Volt when the engine is running.

    The metod to use resistor voltage dividers is to be honest not very good if you want a fixed voltage like 5 volt. The voltage will vary from 3.8 V to 4.48 V depending of if the engine is running or not and the charge state of the battery. This may not be critical in your application, I don't know since I don't know how the flow sensor reacts to small voltage changes like that on the green wire. The proper way to create +5 volt from a cars 12 V system, which varies with the charge state and battery condition, headlight load etc., is to use a zener diode and a resistor instead of two resistors. Or a +12V to +5V circuit that delivers a stable +5 V when the input voltage is anything between +10 to +35 V like e.g. the LM309 voltage regulator. http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM309.html#Overview I just meantion this to show how a well controlled +5 V voltage is created in case the voltage is critical like for TTL circuits where it MUST be between 4.75 and 5.25 Volt anytime to work and not fry circuits. The reason LM309 and similar circuits can handle up to +35 V input voltage is there are voltage spikes up to almost this voltage in vehicles so a good voltage regulator is e.g. a must inside the ECU to protect its circuits, and no one would ever come up with the idea to create +5V to ECU components with a simple resistor network. This is not to say it will not work in your case since I don't know what the circuit is behind the green wire in the sensor.

    The best way to check your circuit though is to connect a voltmeter to the green wire (and ground) when it is connected to the resistor network and engine running and measure what it actually is. In case it drops below the about 4.5 V with engine running the 4.7 kohm resistor needs to be increased.

    I hope you didn't get too confused by all info above...
    Wow thank you for your time. I will measure the voltage and go up accordingly on the 4.7 resistor. I basically just wanted to know if the connection after the 4.7 in series which is grounded to car, will create any major issues as with shorting the electrical. If the current is so low like you said and it would NOT be enough to fry anything, then I will proceed forward. How often do these resistors fry as in terms if usage. Do they need to be changed out periodically?

  9. #59
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    The resistors will last "for ever" if they are not driven too hard or becomes mechanically damaged or have damages from the beginning. The general rule is they should be selected to handle a load of no more than 25% of their maximum rating. This means a 1 watt resistor will have no problem to live without any real stress at 0.25 Watt load. In case it is loaded with 1 W it will become warm and get a limited lifetime.

    In your case the loads on the resistors will in the order of one or a few milliwatts so even with small 1/4 W (250 mW) resistors they will last the lifetime of the car and more.
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    Last edited by R1000K3; 12-18-2011 at 10:30 AM.

  10. #60
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    Oh no a shunt regulator? Ugly... Click here to enlarge

    With most 5v microcontroller AtoD using 12v to a single large resistor like 20-40k straight in to the 5v input normally works fine for producing the max reading without issues. The designer of that flow sensor circuit would know for sure though. Would be much easier. Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    It would be easier to use one resistor instead of two or a zener diode if the designer confirms it is possible, but it would not be much easier. It is never wrong though to give the customer the opportunity to work a bit himself Click here to enlarge
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    Guys you still haven't answered my question. Will running a 10k in series with. 4.7k have any consequences of a short if the 4.7 end is suppose to be tied in with the ground wire of flow sensor which is then grounded into chassis? Need to be 100% certain as I am apprehensive of this connection. Thanks for your help guys.

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    I thought I answered you. The circuit you describe will not cause any form of shortening. Unless you get a physical short by the upstream end (plus side) of the 10 kohm resistor comes in contact with ground by mistake. The other end of it (connection to 4.7k), and upper end of the 4.7 k resistor can be shortened to ground (by accident...) without causing a shortening that affects the car in any other way than the flow sensor is not getting the desired bias voltage. The ground side of the 4.7 is connected to ground via the sensors ground and this is OK. Use shrink tubes or similar over the resistors and soldering joints and you will be good to go :-)

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    Thank you!!!!

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    Errgghh. 28 degrees here is not the best temperature suited to work on the car, but I made a little progress. Took out the crappy SP unit and move up the meth line to the engine bay and installed the Aquamist unit and secured it to brace. This thing is tiny! Hope the size doesn't make it inferior but at this point I have used the two best possibilities of a flow sensor. Sp unit can't handle heat and cannot read flow of two large nozzles, which sucks balls! FTL Next thing to do is wire up the sensor and put the under panels back on. Now if I have another issue, no more going underneath car for meClick here to enlarge. Hopefully I can finish up sometime this coming week and test.

  16. #66
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    Compression fittings FTW and the push fittings FTL! I may convert my whole entire meth system to these compression fittings one piece at a time. These are so less prone to leaks IMO..

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Compression fittings FTW and the push fittings FTL! I may convert my whole entire meth system to these compression fittings one piece at a time. These are so less prone to leaks IMO..
    yeah i agree, i already had one crap on me leaking. Also i could not get off the one attached to the labonte so i was forced to cut the line.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R1000K3 Click here to enlarge
    I thought I answered you. The circuit you describe will not cause any form of shortening. Unless you get a physical short by the upstream end (plus side) of the 10 kohm resistor comes in contact with ground by mistake. The other end of it (connection to 4.7k), and upper end of the 4.7 k resistor can be shortened to ground (by accident...) without causing a shortening that affects the car in any other way than the flow sensor is not getting the desired bias voltage. The ground side of the 4.7 is connected to ground via the sensors ground and this is OK. Use shrink tubes or similar over the resistors and soldering joints and you will be good to go :-)
    I finished wiring it up and used shrink tubes over the resistor connections like you said...Last thing tomorrow is the underpanel which is just tedious but easy! Drop it off the rhino ramps and test, but like always its going to rain..lol At this point after its said and done, and it doesn't work well, I will order the newest HE505 like Enrita has and it should be a 10 minute job to install the new one, but lets hope for the bestClick here to enlarge

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    Tested the older unit out atoday and it doesnt seem to workClick here to enlarge:cry: It shows flow of 78-79 but as soon as I get off the gas, the Procede unit keeps throwing a overflow code and goes into a valet mode which makes the meth system not work...I guess I need the newer version one!:thumbdown SUcks bigtime .

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    you just need to change to a cobb or jb4 Click here to enlarge your flow sensor is fine...procede is tripping overflow as it the sensor is giving it more voltage than the procede is programmed to work with (so called overflow detection)
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Tested the older unit out atoday and it doesnt seem to workClick here to enlarge:cry: It shows flow of 78-79 but as soon as I get off the gas, the Procede unit keeps throwing a overflow code and goes into a valet mode which makes the meth system not work...I guess I need the newer version one!:thumbdown SUcks bigtime .
    LOL I guess I will provide some procede support now also. Click here to enlarge I read their overflow is programmed at 2x the flow range you enter. So, enter 80 as your flow range, and you just might bypass their overflow. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Tested the older unit out atoday and it doesnt seem to workClick here to enlarge:cry: It shows flow of 78-79 but as soon as I get off the gas, the Procede unit keeps throwing a overflow code and goes into a valet mode which makes the meth system not work...I guess I need the newer version one!:thumbdown SUcks bigtime .
    Good starting point, the flow sensor works at least.

    What voltage did you get on the green wire with engine on?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    LOL I guess I will provide some procede support now also. Click here to enlarge I read their overflow is programmed at 2x the flow range you enter. So, enter 80 as your flow range, and you just might bypass their overflow. Click here to enlarge
    No the flow is way too high to even enter that number into the Procede..The older unit doesnt have the 3 mapping voltage like the newer unit does and the flow saturation is higher on the new ones. I tried but I guess with all the resistors and crap it didnt work...The newer unit will as shown from Enrita. He was initially showing 92 flow without the green wire hooked up and when he did the flow number dropped on the Procede reader to show 50 with one nozzle which is acceptable and will not show overflow...With two nozzles it will show 72 which is also fine... I guess the older units are no good for my setup...I already ordered the new one, and the older unit is going to be sold on ebay or something for the same amount I bought it for...60 bucks for someone else is going to be a score!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R1000K3 Click here to enlarge
    Good starting point, the flow sensor works at least.

    What voltage did you get on the green wire with engine on?
    Didnt gauge the voltage...wanted to get it out and test immediately. Didnt work so I called Jeff at Howerton and he told me that the saturation or max flow was too low for my application and also it was not calibrated right like the newer version...Oh well

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    you just need to change to a cobb or jb4 Click here to enlarge your flow sensor is fine...procede is tripping overflow as it the sensor is giving it more voltage than the procede is programmed to work with (so called overflow detection)
    Correct Dzenno. The older unit doesn't allow you to calibrate the voltage like the newer one...Jeff told me the newer one which you have can and will work with Procede...I got beat for 60 bucks! HAHA

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