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  1. #51
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    Worry not. With the advancements CPE has made, and some of the stuff we have in the works, the PROcede will soon be obsolete anyway. Click here to enlarge

  2. #52
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    As I've quoted before:

    "...and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much"

    any response from tuner in question ...?

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Worry not. With the advancements CPE has made, and some of the stuff we have in the works, the PROcede will soon be obsolete anyway. Click here to enlarge
    Oh snap!Click here to enlarge

  4. #54
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    OH I LOVE IT!! Time to respond over there were the kids play, but not here? Ok, no problem, ill quote to keep us in the loop Click here to enlarge It seems some some people are on the defensive now and offering no data to contradict other than being "silly" Click here to enlarge

    "I didn't post details because giving away info isn't in our best interest. Mike, on the other hand, is being vague because he still doesn't know what we know with regards to what and how fault codes are stored in DME after supposedly "clearing" them with a diagnostic tool.

    I will say that it's not the clear command that is important with respect to this issue of diagnostic invisility. It is how and when the clear command is triggered.

    And it's not about what info is erased in the DME. But rather what info is still there.

    I don't want to sound purposely obtuse here. But I will point out that BMS doesn't not appear to understand or even publicly accept the info that i've provided in the past on this topic. Info that has been directly supported by statements made by Duram at Bavarian Technics. I'm referring to the email that Ilma posted last week.

    I'm afraid that BMS is trying to make this more of a "who do you trust" pony show than an actual technical thread. To be fair, I suspect that is all they can do at this time without further understanding.

    Shiv"

    Shiv, noone trusts you and for good reason

    "Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com Click here to enlarge
    The data is all right there in post 21. It details what commands CAN clear sends and when it sends them. As I've said It checks for codes every 2 minutes and if a code is found it sends a delete command. That is all it does. And that directly contradicts statements that have been made about it. So if this is going to be an issue of credibility people can draw their own conclusions on that. If anyone would like to dispute that data they are welcome to post their own CAN logs. But it doesn't get any more crystal clear than the log posted.

    The larger topics are what the BT/JB3 do better in regard to diagnostic invisibility and what the V4 is doing wrong. And to be honest that isn't a topic I can get in to publicly for obvious reasons. Had I seen Shiv's data and found anything that remotely resembled anything proprietary I would not have posted it to protect his intellectual property. As it happened there was nothing proprietary about it. Just a flawed approach to diagnostic invisibly and proof some of the claims being made were untrue.

    Mike"


    its only a matter of time before you HAVE to explain things here if you want to last... or maybe NOT doing it here is whats keeping you afloat Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    That is a log of commands that the PROcede sends via the CANBUS to the DME to clear codes, etc. It does most of its work that way, e.g. map switching, code clearing, etc. It sends a clear code command every 120 seconds to deal with catless dps for example. Shiv claims all sorts of bull$#@! about secret stuff the PROcede does but when you actually look at the data sent to the dme from the tune there can be no bull$#@!. It is what it is. It's actually a pretty good tune. His crap scare tactics are what pisses most people off.
    Shiv and ESS would get along well Click here to enlarge
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  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    OH I LOVE IT!! Time to respond over there were the kids play, but not here? Ok, no problem, ill quote to keep us in the loop Click here to enlarge It seems some some people are on the defensive now and offering no data to contradict other than being "silly" Click here to enlarge

    "I didn't post details because giving away info isn't in our best interest. Mike, on the other hand, is being vague because he still doesn't know what we know with regards to what and how fault codes are stored in DME after supposedly "clearing" them with a diagnostic tool.

    I will say that it's not the clear command that is important with respect to this issue of diagnostic invisility. It is how and when the clear command is triggered.

    And it's not about what info is erased in the DME. But rather what info is still there.

    I don't want to sound purposely obtuse here. But I will point out that BMS doesn't not appear to understand or even publicly accept the info that i've provided in the past on this topic. Info that has been directly supported by statements made by Duram at Bavarian Technics. I'm referring to the email that Ilma posted last week.

    I'm afraid that BMS is trying to make this more of a "who do you trust" pony show than an actual technical thread. To be fair, I suspect that is all they can do at this time without further understanding.

    Shiv"

    Shiv, noone trusts you and for good reason

    "Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com Click here to enlarge
    The data is all right there in post 21. It details what commands CAN clear sends and when it sends them. As I've said It checks for codes every 2 minutes and if a code is found it sends a delete command. That is all it does. And that directly contradicts statements that have been made about it. So if this is going to be an issue of credibility people can draw their own conclusions on that. If anyone would like to dispute that data they are welcome to post their own CAN logs. But it doesn't get any more crystal clear than the log posted.

    The larger topics are what the BT/JB3 do better in regard to diagnostic invisibility and what the V4 is doing wrong. And to be honest that isn't a topic I can get in to publicly for obvious reasons. Had I seen Shiv's data and found anything that remotely resembled anything proprietary I would not have posted it to protect his intellectual property. As it happened there was nothing proprietary about it. Just a flawed approach to diagnostic invisibly and proof some of the claims being made were untrue.

    Mike"


    its only a matter of time before you HAVE to explain things here if you want to last... or maybe NOT doing it here is whats keeping you afloat Click here to enlarge
    Adrian has responded so we should give them the benefit of the doubt regarding that. Plus, Memorial day weekend and such. I don't expect them to run in here to defend when they aren't sponsors however Terry is not one who would object to their participation in any way so nothing to fear.
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  7. #57
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    Adrian is actually a bright light in an otherwise very dark room in the Vishnu camp.

    I can't stand shiv...the guy is a cock, he's rude, he employs dirty marketing tactics, and he does whatever he has to in order to make himself look better, when at the end of the day, his product should be doing that for him.

    Someone needs to remind him that in order to survive (and actually earn respect) in the professional business world, attacking other companies is not the wisest thing to do. I don't care if Vishnu offered the ONLY tune for my diesel..I'd go tuneless before I bought anything from them. It's a shame, really, because Adrian seems to have a good head on his shoulders and represents Vishnu well, otherwise.

    I think the other thing that bugs me about shiv is that not only does he lie, but he makes promises he can't keep. Don't commit to something and then bail. And, I suppose money talks, which is why he can get away with what he does on E90 without any sort of warning or consequence (really impressive on that, Jason).
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ronin Click here to enlarge
    Adrian is actually a bright light in an otherwise very dark room in the Vishnu camp.

    I can't stand shiv...the guy is a cock, he's rude, he employs dirty marketing tactics, and he does whatever he has to in order to make himself look better, when at the end of the day, his product should be doing that for him.

    Someone needs to remind him that in order to survive (and actually earn respect) in the professional business world, attacking other companies is not the wisest thing to do. I don't care if Vishnu offered the ONLY tune for my diesel..I'd go tuneless before I bought anything from them. It's a shame, really, because Adrian seems to have a good head on his shoulders and represents Vishnu well, otherwise.

    I think the other thing that bugs me about shiv is that not only does he lie, but he makes promises he can't keep. Don't commit to something and then bail. And, I suppose money talks, which is why he can get away with what he does on E90 without any sort of warning or consequence (really impressive on that, Jason).
    I have spent some time speaking with Shiv and some people misunderstand his style and fall into fanboy camps. I like a lot of the things he says and they remind me of how I would reply at times. Then again, I'm an $#@!.
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  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have spent some time speaking with Shiv and some people misunderstand his style and fall into fanboy camps. I like a lot of the things he says and they remind me of how I would reply at times. Then again, I'm an $#@!.
    Here's my issue with his 'style', though. He's in the business to make money, yes? He should present himself in the most professional light possible, not cheapen himself by coming across like an all knowing prick, attacking his competition.

    Do I have a free BMS product in my car? Yeah, I do, and I don't hide that fact. That hasn't stopped me from talking to other vendors to try and get a hold of their products, too, to provide an unbiased comparison. I've been up front with those vendors, too. Why does that matter? Because I don't want anyone thinking I'm a fanboy, because, simply put, I want the best product for my car. Not only that, I want to work with people whose business practices are in line with those that I would have myself.

    The guy needs to work on his business face, and his forward facing presence, because as this continues, it's only going to tarnish his reputation more. I'd have a lot more respect for the guy if he'd have taken the high road to begin with, rather than attacking other vendors.
    Click here to enlarge

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ronin Click here to enlarge
    Here's my issue with his 'style', though. He's in the business to make money, yes? He should present himself in the most professional light possible, not cheapen himself by coming across like an all knowing prick, attacking his competition.

    Do I have a free BMS product in my car? Yeah, I do, and I don't hide that fact. That hasn't stopped me from talking to other vendors to try and get a hold of their products, too, to provide an unbiased comparison. I've been up front with those vendors, too. Why does that matter? Because I don't want anyone thinking I'm a fanboy, because, simply put, I want the best product for my car. Not only that, I want to work with people whose business practices are in line with those that I would have myself.

    The guy needs to work on his business face, and his forward facing presence, because as this continues, it's only going to tarnish his reputation more. I'd have a lot more respect for the guy if he'd have taken the high road to begin with, rather than attacking other vendors.
    I haven't followed Shiv closely on E90post as A. I don't have an N54 and B. I just can't read that site without bursting into laughter at the people who don't even realize the pieces of information they are missing and how the moderation manipulates them, no credibility to me.

    However, I have followed all of Shivs posts here and he may come off as abrasive but genuinely is enthusiastic about his product and has good knowledge to share (and has shared.) Everyone gets along here so it shows he is not solely interested in acting like an all knowing prick. It seems at times frustration gets to him but yet, as a business, you have to be held to a higher standard and project the right image. I do not believe Shiv has crossed that line here and certainly behaves better than AR Design. Adrian also does him a huge favor.
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  11. #61
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    It's nice that he's behaved here, in a (currently) smaller venue, but it's to the masses that he's presented himself in a less than positive light.

    I appreciate your view of him, and I'm not trying to take that away from you. Everyone has their opinions, and I'm going to agree to disagree on this one. Click here to enlarge

    Don't get me wrong, however. I do believe he knows what he's talking about (even if it's presented in a way that's not always hrmmm....nonconfrontational?), so I'll give him that.
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ronin Click here to enlarge
    It's nice that he's behaved here, in a (currently) smaller venue, but it's to the masses that he's presented himself in a less than positive light.

    I appreciate your view of him, and I'm not trying to take that away from you. Everyone has their opinions, and I'm going to agree to disagree on this one. Click here to enlarge

    Don't get me wrong, however. I do believe he knows what he's talking about (even if it's presented in a way that's not always hrmmm....nonconfrontational?), so I'll give him that.
    No worries, we don't all have to agree Click here to enlarge

    I'll just pull a Jason and MAKE you all agree.Click here to enlarge
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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have spent some time speaking with Shiv and some people misunderstand his style and fall into fanboy camps. I like a lot of the things he says and they remind me of how I would reply at times. Then again, I'm an $#@!.
    FWIW my personal assessment has always been he is some degree of bi-polar. He is the type of person that will shake your hand and make small talk with a smile in person, and then turn around and talk $#@! about you the next day on the forums.

  14. #64
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    adrian i can deal with and actually enjoy reading info from, always professional even when im not. the other i cannot stand for other reasons, other than the N54 element.. my point, and active participation in this thread, even though I have no idea what im talking about, is because if they both have time to respond over there, they can respond over here to the real enthusiasts.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    adrian i can deal with and actually enjoy reading info from, always professional even when im not. the other i cannot stand for other reasons, other than the N54 element.. my point, and active participation in this thread, even though I have no idea what im talking about, is because if they both have time to respond over there, they can respond over here to the real enthusiasts.
    Business interests come first, I don't blame them. Even though the real enthusiasts are here the people they can take money from are mostly over there for now. It is just business, nothing personal, just a matter of time before they have to address both. Plus, I'm sure Jason is probably leveraging all his influence to prevent them from actively participating here as a vendor, he has done it with others already. I want to commend the vendors who were not intimated. Like I said, just a matter of time, just a matter of time Click here to enlarge
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  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have spent some time speaking with Shiv and some people misunderstand his style and fall into fanboy camps. I like a lot of the things he says and they remind me of how I would reply at times. Then again, I'm an $#@!.
    Is it fair though for the masses to conform to one persons 'style' and not vice versa? Just a thought.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Is it fair though for the masses to conform to one persons 'style' and not vice versa? Just a thought.
    No, but it is fair to point out that some misunderstand his intentions.
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  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No, but it is fair to point out that some misunderstand his intentions.
    By some, you mean just about everyone, right? Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ronin Click here to enlarge
    By some, you mean just about everyone, right? Click here to enlarge
    I'm often amazed at how often I believe the majority is wrong.
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  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm often amazed at how often I believe the majority is wrong.
    Herein lies the rub. Whether the majority is right or wrong, it's their perception that plays the biggest role. Perception is reality, no matter how you spin it. Being cognisant of that when presenting yourself in front of others, no matter what the forum (looser sense of the term, not specific to a common meeting place for text based banter), is pretty key as to how others view you.

    To whit, I don't care if you achieve world peace...if you present yourself as a douche, people are still going to think of you as a douche.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I've met shiv in person (when he was down here in Miami tuning ASR's 135) all I can say is that Sticky's view on Shiv is dead on. He's a very bright individual and is often misunderstood. True, his style may be different from other vendors and sometimes that may rub people the wrong way. It might be his witty, smart remarks or his sarcasm but I honestly dont think he means any harm.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ronin Click here to enlarge
    Herein lies the rub. Whether the majority is right or wrong, it's their perception that plays the biggest role. Perception is reality, no matter how you spin it. Being cognisant of that when presenting yourself in front of others, no matter what the forum (looser sense of the term, not specific to a common meeting place for text based banter), is pretty key as to how others view you.

    To whit, I don't care if you achieve world peace...if you present yourself as a douche, people are still going to think of you as a douche.
    So image is everything and results mean nothing?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So image is everything and results mean nothing?
    apparently so... I know I use to think the same way.. then I saw results.. which for me.. mean allot more..
    || DCT | ESS Tune | ACM Test-pipes | AA Green Filter | Swift Spec-R Springs | Stoptech ST-40 F || || My Youtube Channel|| My Vimeo Channel ||

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So image is everything and results mean nothing?
    From a business perspective, image means a $#@! ton. Let's use Apple as a comparison. They're dealing with suicides in their off country plants (among numerous OTHER problems they've had with those plants), but their sales never, ever falter. Why? Because they maintain an image.

    I'm not going to buy a product from someone who comes across as a dick to me, no matter how good the product is. If they seem like a dick, what's going to happen when I actually need their help? I can only assume from their presentation that I would get the same kind of treatment.

    A great product does not preclude being an $#@!. Sure, results mean something, but the presentation is pretty key.

    Until I meet the guy and he proves himself otherwise, the persona that he portrays in the respective forums he visits is the one that sticks. Pretty standard stuff. As a business representative, how he presents himself is representative of his company, and if that's what he thinks of his company and its name, it's hard to have respect for the guy on a personal level.

    I'm well aware that shiv is an intelligent fellow (I've never stated otherwise), and that the work he does or represents, is cutting edge, and the products he provides are of good caliber. Doesn't change how I perceive his personality, though.

    Results + forward facing personas are a delicate balance, but are necessary if you plan on running a successful, professional business.

    Honestly, I'd love to have the opportunity for him to prove otherwise, but I've got no vested interest in doing so. He doesn't have any products I'm going to benefit from, and at this point, I doubt he'd sell to me, as I've voiced my distaste for him both here and on E90 (where he made sure to get me warned by Jason, because I called him out on something he'd promised was in development and never provided updates or moved it forward).
    Click here to enlarge

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    ^ Bam !, hit the nail right on the head ! Very well put.

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