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  1. #176
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    If a flash tuner could increase the injection window, how much HP could we get with stock turbos and with RB turbos? On pump gas/no meth.

    From previous discussions it seems that the stockers run out of breath at +/- 400whp. Pump gas dynos for RBs are in the 450whp range. Above that, meth is used as additional fueling.

    What would be the theoretical limit with RBs? I'm not particularly interested in upgarding to a big single, due to the lag it will (most probably) induce.

  2. #177
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Skydive what was/is your screen name on audiworld/quattroworld? I am trying to figure out who you are because i propbably know you. I am Mark(slvrbulletS4) The original owner of the AWE Silverbullet, as you know my car was the fastest street S4 in the world until I sold it after the King of the Rings challenge, my design partner is Blitzkrieg who had the fastest k03 car. I tried to push the new owner to the tial turbos but he went the RS6 route with the car... sadly, only after I sold the car did your turbo setup,engine internals and clutch that could handle the power come to fruition.the clutch had always held me back in regards to drag times as i had enough mph(123-124) to run 10's but could never really launch the car without slippage. those turbos and a good clutch attached to the hardware we fabricated would have been hard to beat even to this day! werent the turbo originally an ATP part? or were they always Tial sold by ATP? either way they were nicely done.
    Last edited by TurboBullett; 01-10-2012 at 10:44 AM.

  3. #178
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    We will not know until we have the fuel to work with, which is what the OP is wishing to address in this thread. On topic I believe BMS/Terry has confirmed, along with dzenno in Canada, that the LPFP system is showing limits at high HP levels within the RB Turbo Airflow Potential. Dont want to take anything further off topic by discussing RBs in particular, so hit me up in any other RB thread if you want those product specific answers.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    If a flash tuner could increase the injection window, how much HP could we get with stock turbos and with RB turbos? On pump gas/no meth.

    From previous discussions it seems that the stockers run out of breath at +/- 400whp. Pump gas dynos for RBs are in the 450whp range. Above that, meth is used as additional fueling.

    What would be the theoretical limit with RBs? I'm not particularly interested in upgarding to a big single, due to the lag it will (most probably) induce.

  4. #179
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    Skydive what was/is your screen name on audiworld/quattroworld?
    Hi,

    Of course I remember the car. As I recall it was the first US based B5 to break into the 11s.

    Anyway, out of respect for the topic and those that are trying to refocus on the problem at hand, drop me a note.

    michael at avivainstruments dot com.

    -Michael

  5. #180
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    I do truly believe ordering a higher capacity Siemens pump would be the best answer, if available.
    I whole heartedly concur!

    -Michael

  6. #181
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    We will not know until we have the fuel to work with, which is what the OP is wishing to address in this thread. On topic I believe BMS/Terry has confirmed, along with dzenno in Canada, that the LPFP system is showing limits at high HP levels within the RB Turbo Airflow Potential. Dont want to take anything further off topic by discussing RBs in particular, so hit me up in any other RB thread if you want those product specific answers.
    In terms of LPFP pressure, N54 likes to see 72.5psi at all times, flat...value can fluctuate +/-10psi in certain cases within spec...when we were testing up here on John's car (ultimateracing335i), with the fuel pressure gauge hooked into the low pressure line, we'd see the pressure needle on the gauge start to get erratic and it'd go wild and bounce extremely fast down from 40-50psi to about 90psi, so it wasn't a reliable reading IMO as it was probably mostly noise on the line...there were a few youtube vids posted and shared on n54tech of this gauge on the car while doing a pull and maybe you can see there...we also were using a piggyback to squeeze max power at the time and didn't really have accurate fuel pressure readings from the canbus that we could datalog...

    Now, with Cobb we've got the ability to log actual vs. requested HPFP and LPFP pressures as well as true AFR off the factory widebands...having this datalogging ability really helps see things clearly in terms of fuel pressure vs. AFR vs. volume...

    Cobb's car will have the RBs on and running by Thursday and we'll hopefully know more on this topic soon...
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #182
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    Great guys, thanks for keeping the topic alive. I'll contact the Conti engineer again in a few weeks (end january or so). I'll also ping ESS to see what they have on the LPFP pump.

    And thanks for the kind words Rob !

    greetings,

    dub

  8. #183
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    In terms of LPFP pressure, N54 likes to see 72.5psi at all times, flat...value can fluctuate +/-10psi in certain cases within spec...when we were testing up here on John's car (ultimateracing335i), with the fuel pressure gauge hooked into the low pressure line, we'd see the pressure needle on the gauge start to get erratic and it'd go wild and bounce extremely fast down from 40-50psi to about 90psi, so it wasn't a reliable reading IMO as it was probably mostly noise on the line...there were a few youtube vids posted and shared on n54tech of this gauge on the car while doing a pull and maybe you can see there...we also were using a piggyback to squeeze max power at the time and didn't really have accurate fuel pressure readings from the canbus that we could datalog...

    Now, with Cobb we've got the ability to log actual vs. requested HPFP and LPFP pressures as well as true AFR off the factory widebands...having this datalogging ability really helps see things clearly in terms of fuel pressure vs. AFR vs. volume...

    Cobb's car will have the RBs on and running by Thursday and we'll hopefully know more on this topic soon...
    this is great news for us upped turbos guys... i see amazing maps coming up for spring racing!
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  9. #184
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    Skydive what was/is your screen name on audiworld/quattroworld? I am trying to figure out who you are because i propbably know you. I am Mark(slvrbulletS4) The original owner of the AWE Silverbullet, as you know my car was the fastest street S4 in the world until I sold it after the King of the Rings challenge, my design partner is Blitzkrieg who had the fastest k03 car. I tried to push the new owner to the tial turbos but he went the RS6 route with the car... sadly, only after I sold the car did your turbo setup,engine internals and clutch that could handle the power come to fruition.the clutch had always held me back in regards to drag times as i had enough mph(123-124) to run 10's but could never really launch the car without slippage. those turbos and a good clutch attached to the hardware we fabricated would have been hard to beat even to this day! werent the turbo originally an ATP part? or were they always Tial sold by ATP? either way they were nicely done.
    I remember you from Audiworld back in the day. Back when they had the $#@!tiest forum software known to man.

  10. #185
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I remember you from Audiworld back in the day. Back when they had the $#@!tiest forum software known to man.
    LOL. I still prefer kawf to vB. It's much easier to skip the BS.

  11. #186
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    ...werent the turbo originally an ATP part? or were they always Tial sold by ATP?
    ATP was never involved. As far as I know, they're still not.

  12. #187
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Skydive Click here to enlarge
    LOL. I still prefer kawf to vB. It's much easier to skip the BS.
    Using carrier pigeons is more technologically advanced and better organized than whatever the hell that junk was.

  13. #188
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    sent an email to cobb asking about e85 mappping and about the aquamist hsf-3 meth kit they use and this I what i got back:

    Chris,

    You potentially could use any of the failsafe options with the Aquamist kit. We just investigating a more sophisticated solution to match the sophisticated BMW logic. Our tank is trunk mounted, but both options should work effectively.

    At COBB SoCal, Ant or Ronnie should be able to help you out regarding the meth kit installation pricing. Once ATP is released, COBB SoCal should be able to tune for you. 100% E85 mapping will most likely not be immediately available, but it will be a future feature down the road. The meth integration will help provide some headroom when tuning on 91 California pump gas. If you have any other questions, please let me know.


    Thank you,
    Ian Armstrong

  14. #189
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    Sorry for the delay in posting after my last post I headed out to work... Typically their are several ways to increase a pumps flow:
    -increasing voltage to the pump
    -Replacing an intank pump with a higher flow version or multiple pumps
    -adding another pump inline so the original pump doesn't have to work as hard
    -adding another pump inline with a series of check valves
    If and when we truly do reach a fuel ceiling that requires more volume flow to the hpfp I have figured out a pretty sleek way to implement it into the system that will work and keep the rest of the system and sensors happy. With the mass hysteria created on this subject we could have been selling these night and day these past few months. BUT as I have said previous I wasn't sold on this fuel ceiling without first seeing air fuels with altered pulse width and after seeing that it's good we didn't sell the system YET. That's not to say that it won't have to be implemented in the future "WHEN" the lpfp maxes out.

    Hey man, we could use your lpfp about now Click here to enlarge Got anything planned?
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

  15. #190
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    Some good information in here. Anyone know what is the max flow rate capacity of the stock fuel pump is? Dub?

  16. #191
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    Hi GoodToGo,

    i do not know the max flow rate capacity. I do know that the faulty first generation HPFP can now be replaced with a new improved version which seems to eliminate all the HPFP issues that were seen. Maybe a tuner that comment, because what i understand is that breaking the 500+ whp is tricky due to flow limitation at maximum load.

    Greetings,

    Jeroen

  17. #192
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    Has anyone compared an OEM M3 pump? It supplies 2 more cylinders and even with a 675 or custom 700 kit the stock pump is still retained...

  18. #193
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dubversion Click here to enlarge
    Hi GoodToGo,

    i do not know the max flow rate capacity. I do know that the faulty first generation HPFP can now be replaced with a new improved version which seems to eliminate all the HPFP issues that were seen. Maybe a tuner that comment, because what i understand is that breaking the 500+ whp is tricky due to flow limitation at maximum load.

    Greetings,

    Jeroen
    Jeroen,
    Thanks for the response. I should clarify that I was referring to the LPFP. Based on what I've seen tuners extract from this platform on pump gas (E10, 93 oct, no meth) and larger turbos (~500 BHP), I suspect that the LPFP flows about 175 LPH @70 psi based on standard rules of thumb. This would put the standard pump rated capacity rating at about 250 LPH @ 40-50 psi, based on the pump curves I have seen which is about standard pressure for many other platforms. It would be great is somebody could test this. That way we could know how much of a capacity increase there might be from going to an aftermarket LPFP.

    Please note, the numbers in here are all wild estimation!

  19. #194
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Hi GoodToGo, Your question will hopefully be answered by a tuner. I've always naively assumed, like @Itsbrokeagain just commented, that there are plenty of pumps that could be used instead of the stock pump. Surely it's not rocket sceience to replace the LPFP.

    Maybe another way to find out the max flow rate of the LPFP pump, is the check the part number with

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=16&fg=15

    Seems to be partnr 16117197076
    Maybe contact a dealership to see which brand it is and then contact the supplier ?

    greetings,
    Jeroen

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    Just checked a 2007 M3 on
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=16&fg=15

    The partnr for the fuel kit there is: 16112283496, which is different than the 335i

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Has anyone checked out Terry's progress?? Cant post link because im new here but if you check n54tech he has a thread stating his newly upgraded LPFP

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