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  1. #1
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    Shivs Procede/jb4/Cobb afr compare!

    Sorry but that was worth a few laughs.

    You compare a jb4 car with map 7 on 100 octane, to a Cobb tune running race gas 100 octane on a 93 octane pump gas map to a procede with meth and find the results useful? Really?

    How is that anything other than comparing apples to oranges?

    I target 12.1-12.3 afr all day long on cobb stage 2 pump. This guy is in the mid 11s, something's up if that tailpipe sniffer is accurate regardless.

    http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...comparison.png

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    lol, so are these the "unbiased" results he referenced a few days ago Click here to enlarge

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    Ignore him, cherry picking douche Click here to enlarge EVERYTHING about that post is just sad politics especially how he's "just" sharing data but then chooses to argue with Mike and not say $#@! to that retard FastbimmerN54 or whatever the $#@! his name is..I swear that guy deserves a major $#@! slap
    Click here to enlarge

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    Ignore him, cherry picking douche Click here to enlarge EVERYTHING about that post is just sad politics especially how he's "just" sharing data but then chooses to argue with Mike and not say $#@! to that retard FastbimmerN54 or whatever the $#@! his name is..I swear that guy deserves a major $#@! slap

    Why doesn't anyone report any of those guys so they get banned as well is beyond me..oh wait I know it's just shiv reporting and banning no one else gives a $#@! Click here to enlarge he even goes on to threaten Mike that he'll "report" him Click here to enlarge

    Shiv come to Canada again Click here to enlarge you'll have a very warm welcome..you're welcome!
    Click here to enlarge

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    I like how he throws my name in his replies. If he wants to address me he should either email me @ terry@burgertuning.com or post on this forum where I might reply to him. Not sure how he would expect me to respond to posts on a forum I don't often read and am not a member of? Although making bogus statements without risk of response was probably his intention from the start. Click here to enlarge

    Anyway fueling isn't a complicated subject. If he wants to offer full disclosure he should include the voltage output of his fuel biasing signal. I'm sure it's quite ridiculous to avoid maxing out the fuel trims at 16psi down low off meth. I know ours is. And LOL at comparing to a car running methanol injection.

    FWIW I saw one of his customers post this dyno a couple of days ago. Running 1pt leaner. Quick better raise the fuel pressure higher. I mean "open loop mapping"... Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    Wink

    That fastbimmern54 twat talks a whole lot of $#@! to anyone who doesn't bow before procede lol.

    I really don't give a $#@! anymore about shiv and his selective "data". His sales must be hurting so it appears he has much too much time on his hands.

    On a brighter note my e90post ban ends tomorrow lol.

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    Yea, i tried a non-confrontational approach to point out that useful information was missing, the whole thing was a moot point, and that its shiv doing more marketing. But that got the expected results, so I just got the $#@! out and unsubscribed the thread.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    Yea, i tried a non-confrontational approach to point out that useful information was missing, the whole thing was a moot point, and that its shiv doing more marketing. But that got the expected results, so I just got the $#@! out and unsubscribed the thread.
    Should have just told him to $#@! off and then unsubcribed, I know I would
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I like how he throws my name in his replies. If he wants to address me he should either email me @ terry@burgertuning.com or post on this forum where I might reply to him. Not sure how he would expect me to respond to posts on a forum I don't often read and am not a member of? Although making bogus statements without risk of response was probably his intention from the start. Click here to enlarge

    Anyway fueling isn't a complicated subject. If he wants to offer full disclosure he should include the voltage output of his fuel biasing signal. I'm sure it's quite ridiculous to avoid maxing out the fuel trims at 16psi down low off meth. I know ours is. And LOL at comparing to a car running methanol injection.

    FWIW I saw one of his customers post this dyno a couple of days ago. Running 1pt leaner. Quick better raise the fuel pressure higher. I mean "open loop mapping"... Click here to enlarge

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...tc1d1321-1.jpg
    Terry, maybe you can explain to me why the procede has a fueling limit and other tunes dont?

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Terry, maybe you can explain to me why the procede has a fueling limit and other tunes dont?
    N54 piggyback fueling is basically unchanged for the past four years. O2 sensor biasing and fuel pressure mapping. So the procede functions the same as any other piggyback in that regard. It's no more advanced or limited than the JB4 for example.

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    I'm on my honeymoon in Hawaii so don't expect me to write back quick.....but you are wrong.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    N54 piggyback fueling is basically unchanged for the past four years. O2 sensor biasing and fuel pressure mapping. So the procede functions the same as any other piggyback in that regard. It's no more advanced or limited than the JB4 for example.

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    looking at that Cobb Stage 2 AFR curve, that's precisely what my AFRs looked like when one of my o2 sensors were taking a $#@!. I think the owner needs to replace an O2 sensor.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    N54 piggyback fueling is basically unchanged for the past four years. O2 sensor biasing and fuel pressure mapping. So the procede functions the same as any other piggyback in that regard. It's no more advanced or limited than the JB4 for example.
    Didnt the JB4 run 55xHP with nitrous on a 12ohm board? Sorry, I havnt had time to read the whole therad. Didnt Robb say he didnt see evidence of this fueling limit?

    Many people have been bumping up the agressive maps OL fueling from the default 90% to 100%, which to me, means that its pegged at its limit. I may be completely wrong here, havnt personally got to that level. In my past experiences, putting any electronic device at its limit induces signal noise that I'm uncomfortable with. I havnt done any testing on the procede fueling circuit yet, probably just a quirk of mine.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    Yea, i tried a non-confrontational approach to point out that useful information was missing, the whole thing was a moot point, and that its shiv doing more marketing. But that got the expected results, so I just got the $#@! out and unsubscribed the thread.
    Honestly, Im embarrassed for FastBimmern54. If there was a way to say outright that I had no bad blood in that thread, and just wanted logs for my own personal benefit like everyone else, then I would have said it. People see my name now and just $#@! on everything I say. Getting quite annoying.

  14. #14
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    lol, the sad part is even if a Procede owner even fathoms thinking of anything negative about the tune, FastBimmer is first to bash you. Click here to enlarge It's like a cult almost lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    lol, the sad part is even if a Procede owner even fathoms thinking of anything negative about the tune, FastBimmer is first to bash you. Click here to enlarge It's like a cult almost lol.
    Been there done that. I think we all have at one point or another. Yes he's a retard. He instantly jumps on anyone who has anything to say at all beyond "+ 1" and "Go Shiv / Procede / etc."

    You can't have constructive conversation when some members won't even let you speak. He even admitted his own ignorance and stupidity when he said he doesn't care about the details because his car seems to be running fine. I know plenty of people whose cars were running fine up until the day when something broke. I'm not saying that will ever happen to him, but the devil is in the details. You'd have to be the lord almighty himself (or fastbimmern54) to not need to log your car ever...
    Click here to enlarge

  16. #16
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    Honestly, I kinda wish I never really got into logging my car. The car is as strong as any other full-weight 335i on stock turbos out there. The problem lies in what I expect to see out of the car and what I actually get. It's quite frustrating getting this car to ever spit out a log I like seeing Click here to enlarge

  17. #17
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    I'm on my honeymoon in Hawaii so don't expect me to write back quick.....but you are wrong.
    I'm pretty intimately familiar with all the piggybacks out there. JB4, procede, standback, AEM, etc. They all control fuel the same way.

    Have fun in HI!
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 11-18-2011 at 01:09 AM.

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Didnt the JB4 run 55xHP with nitrous on a 12ohm board? Sorry, I havnt had time to read the whole therad. Didnt Robb say he didnt see evidence of this fueling limit?
    We've made 500-540rw with various cars. When you get over 480rw it's all about just dumping as much meth as you can. With the flash tunes they may have some advantage at the higher power levels in terms of keeping neutral fuel trims but at some point will see fuel pressure start dropping as we've seen on the piggyback side. The verdict is still out on whether the flash fuel mapping can increase the fueling limits we've encountered so far as far as I'm concerned.

  19. #19
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    I still dont understand why people defend the tune they own like they created it.
    Click here to enlarge


  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I'm pretty intimately familiar with all the piggybacks out there. JB4, procede, standback, AEM, etc. They all control fuel the same way.

    Have fun in HI!
    Anyway way of the jb4 having control over injectors? Have you logged the fuel pressure on cobbs tune?

  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Anyway way of the jb4 having control over injectors? Have you logged the fuel pressure on cobbs tune?
    Not without additional wiring. Cobb isn't a piggyback so doesn't really apply to my comments but they run closer to the stock fuel pressure with a higher programmed injector duty cycle.

  22. #22
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Not without additional wiring. Cobb isn't a piggyback so doesn't really apply to my comments but they run closer to the stock fuel pressure with a higher programmed injector duty cycle.
    Is it fair to say that the flash approach to fuel control is easier on the HPFP/LPFP due to this (i.e. not having to run them harder than required) and is the main reason why the fuel limit/ceiling with the flashes is possibly higher given the two approaches
    Click here to enlarge

  23. #23
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    The LPFP is simply going to be a function of fuel volume consumed IMHO. So no change there. It's less about the additional pressure and more about fooling the DME in to think its running a lower pressure than it actually is. For example, when dialing in "open loop" fueling one thing you're doing is programming how much fuel pressure the DME sees and trying to avoid fuel pressure "under target" codes. Fuel pressure at low RPM doesn't actually change much. But the DME thinks its running 1200psi instead of 2000psi, for example, solving the fuel trims issue.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    I'm on my honeymoon in Hawaii so don't expect me to write back quick.....but you are wrong.
    sweet! enjoy your stay! what island did you go to?

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    On fueling between flash and piggy, originally I thought that higher pressure, lower IDC would mean more fuel required to the rail, even though fuel consumption is the same. I don’t know fluid dynamics, but this could be incorrect… especially since trims would be positive and IDC is supplementing the additional requirements. So maybe the actual ceilings are similar.
    Analogy would be a garden hose with lower pressure, larger nozzle compared with higher pressure, smaller nozzle.

    Any idea of the pressure increase by a piggy. I think i've seen like 1/2 volt over stock, but I'm not sure. Is it about 500psi per volt?

    Lalooshypo has lost his virginity…Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge

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