Racelogic Traction Control, thoughts?

**dzenno@PTF** · 10-31-2011, 02:13 PM

At the track yesterday someone mentioned a standalone traction control system from Racelogic and said many cars are seeing great results with it...what do you guys think of this? My thought, which they talk about and say not to worry about, is that its cutting fuel instead of spark...however, they do it for a very short period of time and one cylinder at a time apparently so that its not harmful to the engine (i.e. lean/heat induced pre-ignition)...

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/index.php...action-control

Click here to enlarge

Do our cars have wheel speed sensors on all 4 corners? Don't know anything about that or how our ABS system works..

**GermanBoost Ads** · 10-31-2011, 02:13 PM

**angelic0-** · 10-31-2011, 02:18 PM

I think S62 (member of this forum) has this in his S50 Supercharged E30... not sure if his Twin Supercharged E39 M5 had it too...

I recall him having good results with this product !

**dzenno@PTF** · 10-31-2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by angelic0-

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I think S62 (member of this forum) has this in his S50 Supercharged E30... not sure if his Twin Supercharged E39 M5 had it too...

I recall him having good results with this product !

Sounds good, I've pm-ed him to see what his thoughts are and if he's willing to provide some input in this thread...thanks bud

**BEAR-AvHistory** · 10-31-2011, 03:18 PM

Why is this better then the one that comes with the car?

**dzenno@PTF** · 10-31-2011, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

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Why is this better then the one that comes with the car?

one is made for performance, the other (stock) is made for safety

**s62** · 10-31-2011, 03:43 PM

I have the Racelogic in both the M5 and the M3.

It is a great product and you can set TC in small increments.

In the M3 I used it alot to begin with when I was getting used to the car. However, today I
only use it in the rain, when it pours and I´m on semis. When it´s on I get alot of people telling me that
there is a problem with my engine.....

You can hear why at the end of this old clip:
http://www.rngtoy.com/thordur/almennt/Eurotour2007/RNGTOY_EU_ROUGE_BIG.wmv

In the M5 the system gave me some problems to begin with. The pulses from the system cutting in would make alot of problems with the SC belt. Instead of typing it all up here I´ll just link to this writeup:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/158598-joys-fi-problems-fixes-true-story.html

After the fix back in 2007 the belt system has been working flawlessly.

I think the Racelogic system is very nice and would recommend it.

As for comparing a stock TC system versus the Racelogic, it´s night and day.

**dzenno@PTF** · 10-31-2011, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by s62

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I have the Racelogic in both the M5 and the M3.

It is a great product and you can set TC in small increments.

In the M3 I used it alot to begin with when I was getting used to the car. However, today I
only use it in the rain, when it pours and I´m on semis. When it´s on I get alot of people telling me that
there is a problem with my engine.....

You can hear why at the end of this old clip:
http://www.rngtoy.com/thordur/almennt/Eurotour2007/RNGTOY_EU_ROUGE_BIG.wmv

In the M5 the system gave me some problems to begin with. The pulses from the system cutting in would make alot of problems with the SC belt. Instead of typing it all up here I´ll just link to this writeup:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/158598-joys-fi-problems-fixes-true-story.html

After the fix back in 2007 the belt system has been working flawlessly.

I think the Racelogic system is very nice and would recommend it.

As for comparing a stock TC system versus the Racelogic, it´s night and day.

Did you have to get their 4 wheel speed sensors on your M5 or did you just plug into your existing sensors? Wonder what we'd have to do/purchase to get it hooked up...i already have the WOTbox device that allows for a nice 2-step launch with boost off the line and it was considerably cheaper than this racelogic unit...however, once you take off after 2-stepping the WOTBox doesn't do anything to cut power in case of wheel spin...however, in that particular case do you think it would help the launches themselves or are you using this more for just pure traction control part of it? Do you ever drag race your cars?

Thanks for your input, appreciate it

**s62** · 10-31-2011, 04:06 PM

I do not drag race the cars to speak of, I have taken the M5 to the track on rock hard 19"s.
Got something like 12.6@118 with massive wheelspin, was not using the Racelogic at the time.
If I had any ambition & interest for the quarter mile I am sure I can get well into the 11's with drag radials and the Racelogic. The system is most likely great for drag racing. I however do not want to thrash the car at the quarter mile, it´s my daily.

The M3 I have used mostly at Spa and Nurburgring and it has never been onto a drag strip.

The Racelogic is using the original abs sensors in the cars. I did not install the systems myself so I do not have any in-depth info on that, Mr. X installed in my M5 and Tauber Motorsport in the M3.

**dzenno@PTF** · 10-31-2011, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by s62

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I do not drag race the cars to speak of, I have taken the M5 to the track on rock hard 19"s.
Got something like 12.6@118 with massive wheelspin, was not using the Racelogic at the time.
If I had any ambition & interest for the quarter mile I am sure I can get well into the 11's with drag radials and the Racelogic. The system is most likely great for drag racing. I however do not want to thrash the car at the quarter mile, it´s my daily.

The M3 I have used mostly at Spa and Nurburgring and it has never been onto a drag strip.

The Racelogic is using the original abs sensors in the cars. I did not install the systems myself so I do not have any in-depth info on that, Mr. X installed in my M5 and Tauber Motorsport in the M3.

awesome, good to know, thanks man...

**dzenno@PTF** · 11-01-2011, 09:23 AM

Got a small update from Racelogic on this product as it relates to the N54....funny thing is they require misfire detection to be turned off

and u know how "bad" that is lol in any case, misfire detection is already off on my car so the only other thing to find out is their question about fuel injectors..does anyone know if the fuel injectors are low or high impedance and if they are operated with saturated injector signals...anyone?

Here's the email thread:

Originally Posted by Racelogic

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On 2011-11-01, at 7:55, Mike Broadbent <Mike.Broadbent@racelogic.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dzenan,

OK, assuming they are standard saturated injector signals, it won't make any difference if they are direct injection. RLTC - both the standard and CAN-based versions - can only deal with saturated injector signals with an impedance of 4ohm or greater.

The thing to determine now is whether we have the right CAN IDs. I assume you've not altered anything in this respect?

Regards,

Mike.

Racelogic is a limited company registered in England. Registered number 2743719 .
Registered Office Unit 10, Swan Business Centre, Osier Way, Buckingham, Bucks, MK18 1TB .

The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Racelogic Ltd for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email so that the sender's address records can be corrected. The views expressed by the sender of this communication do not necessarily represent those of Racelogic Ltd. Please note that Racelogic reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications passing through its network
-----Original Message-----
From: Dzenan Becic [mailto:dzenno@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 November 2011 11:51
To: Mike Broadbent
Subject: Re: Racelogic Traction Control - 2008 BMW 335i

Hi Mike,
I'm still running the original BMW DME but ive already had my flash tune from Cobb Tuning *turn off misfire detection so that won't be an issue. My concern is more around direct injection fuel injectors and the application of this product on it.

Let me know of you need any further info and how we may proceed.

Thank you, appreciate it.

- Dzenan

Sent from my iPhone

On 2011-11-01, at 7:43, Mike Broadbent <Mike.Broadbent@racelogic.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dzenan,

Thank you for your enquiry.

In theory, we don't have a system suitable for your car. There are two reasons for this:

1. Misfire detection. All BMW petrol engine cars from around yr2000 have a misfire detection system that puts the car into a limp-home mode if the engine misfires. Given that our system works by doing exactly this, cars that have MD cannot use it.

2. Active wheel speed signals. The ABS signals on most modern cars now employ active, rather than passive signals, which sits at a constant 12v (the ABS ECU then reads the current fluctuations to get a pulse) rather than a 0-12v wave. RLTC can only read passive signals.

However I say 'in theory' because we also have a traction system that picks up ABS and RPM values through the vehicle CAN Bus. This system was originally developed for a car manufacturer, and is now used as OE in the Gumpert Apollo; I have also sold some to individuals who have successfully disabled their misfire detection.

So my question you is: does your car still have its original engine management? If so, are you able to get the misfire detection turned off? If you've replaced the engine management for something standalone, what is it?

Let me know about this and I will be able to advise further.

Regards,

Mike Broadbent,
Sales Manager.

Tel: +44 1280 823 803
Fax: +44 1280 823 595
Email: mike.broadbent@racelogic.co.uk

RACELOGIC
Unit 10, Swan Business Centre, Osier Way, Buckingham,
Bucks MK18 1TB, United Kingdom.
www.racelogic.co.uk

Racelogic is a limited company registered in England. Registered number 2743719 .
Registered Office Unit 10, Swan Business Centre, Osier Way, Buckingham, Bucks, MK18 1TB .

The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Racelogic Ltd for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email so that the sender's address records can be corrected. The views expressed by the sender of this communication do not necessarily represent those of Racelogic Ltd. Please note that Racelogic reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications passing through its network

**angelic0-** · 11-01-2011, 07:46 PM

If i recall, ALL BMW injectors are 12 or 16 ohm.... and have saturated signals...

i'm not sure on newer N** series motors though...

**angelic0-** · 11-01-2011, 07:48 PM

sorry... they are all 15ohm (14.7 to be exact)... but as stated before... i am not sure about the newer N series...

i highly doubt a high performance modern (to say the least) engine has low ohm, peak and hold injectors...

how big are the oem injectors on these engines ? they might be peak & hold if they are above 500cc though...

**Sticky** · 11-01-2011, 11:36 PM

People speak very highly about the racelogic traction control control. Great product by most accounts and one of the best aftermarket systems out there.

**dzenno@PTF** · 11-02-2011, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by angelic0-

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sorry... they are all 15ohm (14.7 to be exact)... but as stated before... i am not sure about the newer N series...

i highly doubt a high performance modern (to say the least) engine has low ohm, peak and hold injectors...

how big are the oem injectors on these engines ? they might be peak & hold if they are above 500cc though...

You'd really be surprised just how little is known on the fuel injectors and in general on the high pressure side of the fuel system in the N54 even after now what 4 years its been out?

Its easy to measure and I guess I'll just check what the impedance is using an ohm meter I have at my house...i'd also be surprised if they were low impedance..

Originally Posted by Sticky

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People speak very highly about the racelogic traction control control. Great product by most accounts and one of the best aftermarket systems out there.

given the 2-step wotbox works great so far with a good burnout and DRs at the track i'm really doubting this'd help much...it'd definitely help on the street but i don't launch on the street ever, only at the drag strip but then i have traction and try to run DRs and a good solid burnout with my line lock...maybe this thing is more for those on street tires on the street...not sure, i'd love to try it though but not at this price or at least not until i think it'd do anything at the drag strip for me given my current setup

**dzenno@PTF** · 11-03-2011, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by angelic0-

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sorry... they are all 15ohm (14.7 to be exact)... but as stated before... i am not sure about the newer N series...

i highly doubt a high performance modern (to say the least) engine has low ohm, peak and hold injectors...

how big are the oem injectors on these engines ? they might be peak & hold if they are above 500cc though...

hey, so i took an older fuel injector that i had from my replacement..it was still fine when i replaced it...took my volt meter and measured impedance across the 2 terminals which is what i read on some site is the way to determine if they're high/low impedence injectors...i measured consistently a bunch of times 180-200 kOhm...does this even make sense? extremely high impedence compared to what you stated above but at the same time these aren't port injection injectors...

**shiv@vishnu** · 11-03-2011, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by dzenno

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hey, so i took an older fuel injector that i had from my replacement..it was still fine when i replaced it...took my volt meter and measured impedance across the 2 terminals which is what i read on some site is the way to determine if they're high/low impedence injectors...i measured consistently a bunch of times 180-200 kOhm...does this even make sense? extremely high impedence compared to what you stated above but at the same time these aren't port injection injectors...

Yes that is expected. DI injectors have a much higher impedance than standard nonDI saturated or peak-and-hold type squirters.

**n54BoostOnCoke** · 11-03-2011, 04:49 PM

Wouldn't this be a perfect solution for a dct thereotically ?

**dzenno@PTF** · 11-03-2011, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

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Yes that is expected. DI injectors have a much higher impedance than standard nonDI saturated or peak-and-hold type squirters.

So these N54 fuel injectors don't see standard saturated injector signals but are extremely high impedance? What does it mean for a fuel injector to operate based on a saturated injector signal? Don't feed me any misinformation and lies now lol i'll find out eventually haahha

**angelic0-** · 11-03-2011, 05:29 PM

WTF ? did this come out of a N54 ?

**shiv@vishnu** · 11-03-2011, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by dzenno

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So these N54 fuel injectors don't see standard saturated injector signals but are extremely high impedance? What does it mean for a fuel injector to operate based on a saturated injector signal? Don't feed me any misinformation and lies now lol i'll find out eventually haahha

There is no such thing as "saturated" or "peak and hold" injector signal. Traditional injectors operate by energizing one terminal to a constant 12v and pulling the other to ground. The signal is the same for either type of traditional injector. What distinguishes a saturated injector from a peak-and-hold injector is how quickly they can open/close. This defines their minimum injector on-time which comes into play in small displacement/high hp applications were large injectors need to cover a wide dynamic range while not stalling at low loads/rpm.

The piezo injectors on the N54 engine operate very differently and require a very different signal. There is very little commonality between the two. If the Racelogic box intercepts the injectors, it's unlikely that it is going to be compatible with the n54.

**dzenno@PTF** · 11-03-2011, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

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it's unlikely that it is going to be compatible with the n54

good you said "unlikely" instead of "it won't work" like you said initially for the wotbox and then turned around and added NLS and 2-step to rev 3 lol ...ok, good info, i've forwarded it off for an opinion to the racelogic guys to get their opinion on it as well...thanks

**Sticky** · 11-03-2011, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke

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Wouldn't this be a perfect solution for a dct thereotically ?

Why?

**n54BoostOnCoke** · 11-03-2011, 09:29 PM

Because of the whole dct slipping BS

**Sticky** · 11-03-2011, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke

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Because of the whole dct slipping BS

The way to fix that is with upgraded discs...

**n54BoostOnCoke** · 11-04-2011, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sticky

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The way to fix that is with upgraded discs...

I know, but does dct slip from a roll or just at launches, if for instance I'll trade in for 335is DCT and want to go with same mods - fbo+meth

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