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  1. #51
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    Aren't you getting bored?? I haven't had a car since July4th and it's
    trying me crazy. I drive that car everywhere. All
    I need is a reason. I got lots of stops once she's back.

    I ditched vorsteiner and found a bumper elsewhere. So I'll have it back soon.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Aren't you getting bored?? I haven't had a car since July4th and it's
    trying me crazy.
    Yes, it is driving me insane. A lot of things did not go as planned but nothing I can do about it. I never even got any time with the car when it was SC'd, I did a few passes down the 1/4 mile and that's it. Alex drove it more than I did. There were just some poor choices made during the build, I didn't need to mess with the exhaust and headers for one, pointless, expensive, and caused me to miss a drag date. The transmission build has also been taking a long time and I just try be to patient knowing it will all come together. I won't be doing something like this again though but it is all for the good of the board.

    I'm just going to keep waiting patiently and know I'll have my opportunity to make everything right soon enough. There will be hell to pay.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  3. #53
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    One thing I failed to take into account guys, a bypass valve would relieve pressure when the throttles are closed. Technically, this could be adapted to allow a twin screw to blow into a throttle body instead of pull through.
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  4. #54
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    Sticky, if you are going for a horsepower record type build, I would not go with a PD blower. The most efficient system would be best, and since you think turbos are out of the equation, your best bet is a giant CS.

    If you are building to just have a fun car, do whatever you want! Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, if you are going for a horsepower record type build, I would not go with a PD blower. The most efficient system would be best, and since you think turbos are out of the equation, your best bet is a giant CS.
    Newer twin screws match the efficiency of centrifugals.

    Why don't GT500 guys switch to centri's if they are faster in their application? They tend to just go bigger PD blower. ZR-1 is PD as well and has insane top end pull.

    Trust me, I'm exploring everything Click here to enlarge
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  6. #56
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    Hmmm, well for some reason the Evolution Performance 5.0 Mustang switched to a Procharger and started running 8s...... I believe they were running a PD before by Kenne Bell.


    Can you point me to some info? The Corvette actually uses a 4 lobe PD blower. I have not yet seen a PD blower pass a newer CS on efficiency.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Can you point me to some info? The Corvette actually uses a 4 lobe PD blower. I have not yet seen a PD blower pass a newer CS on efficiency.
    None has passed but the Kenne-Bell's are up there or so they say, read this although it is a little confusing: http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ge...efficiency.pdf

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Hmmm, well for some reason the Evolution Performance 5.0 Mustang switched to a Procharger and started running 8s...... I believe they were running a PD before by Kenne Bell.
    Interesting... what about GT500's though?
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  8. #58
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    Note:

    A lot of twin screw blowers dump their air charge in either the rear or the front bottom of the blower case that feeds the intake manifold. Since the M3 has ITB's, you will have a large bias of air for 4 of the cylinders . Remember, twin screws suck in air from the rear and push it out the front, either way their TB's will not be fed evenly because of this.
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    Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    A lot of twin screw blowers dump their air charge in either the rear or the front bottom of the blower case that feeds the intake manifold. Since the M3 has ITB's, you will have a large bias of air for 4 of the cylinders . Remember, twin screws suck in air from the rear and push it out the front, either way there ITB's will not be feed evenly because of this.
    Interesting, never considered that. Why would happen exactly with them being fed unevenly and why doesn't this affect centri's?
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  10. #60
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    The centri output is a single pipe that feeds some type of plenum which is where the ITBs are located, so its even.

    The TS is sitting right atop the ITBs and the discharge of a TS is not even because of the design of the TS, it is located where the plenum should be located in the case of a centri.

    Look here.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    Here is an example of where the output a TS looks like. When top mounted, they dump straight into the bottom half of an intake manifold that usually evenly distributes the charge.

    The way this is bolted up to the I6, you can see the discharge location of the TS. Now try and bolt that TS down on top of your ITBs you will see the problem.

    EDIT: In this picture you will even see a plenum before the I6 manifold distributes air, that was to mitigate the air charge imbalance which I was concerned with.
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    Click here to enlarge

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Here is an example of where the output a TS looks like. When top mounted, they dump straight into the bottom half of an intake manifold that usually evenly distributes the charge.

    The way this is bolted up to the I6, you can see the discharge location of the TS. Now try and bolt that TS down on top of your ITBs you will see the problem.

    EDIT: In this picture you will even see a plenum before the I6 manifold distributes air, that was to mitigate the air charge imbalance which I was concerned with.
    Yes, traditionally this is the setup but it doesn't have to be mounted that way. If it is going to be used before the throttle body it can blow into the intake manifold just like a centri.
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  13. #63
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    As long as its not bolted down directly on top of the ITBs in place of the upper manifold it should distribute evenly.
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    Click here to enlarge

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    As long as its not bolted down directly on top of the ITBs in place of the upper manifold it should distribute evenly.
    There we go.
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    So you're going twinscrew? Click here to enlarge
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  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    So you're going twinscrew? Click here to enlarge
    No, just thinking and analyzing everything Click here to enlarge

    I know a twin screw would be a ton more fun in every day situations but would it ultimately be faster than a big centri?
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  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No, just thinking and analyzing everything Click here to enlarge

    I know a twin screw would be a ton more fun in every day situations but would it ultimately be faster than a big centri?
    I don't think so. Centri, or go turbo if you want to be cool. Click here to enlarge

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    I don't think so. Centri, or go turbo if you want to be cool. Click here to enlarge
    But what are you basing it on?
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  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But what are you basing it on?
    Efficiency. It would technically be impossible to make more peak torque with a PD blower than a centri, just like it would technically be impossible for the centri to make as much torque as the turbo system, if you plug in the system efficiency data.

    Different torque curves will more or less hard to put down to the ground as you know, but this is assuming traction is taken care of.

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Efficiency. It would technically be impossible to make more peak torque with a PD blower than a centri, just like it would technically be impossible for the centri to make as much torque as the turbo system, if you plug in the system efficiency data.
    Why?
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    You cant really say which makes more power.

    If a big centri makes more power than a TS, get a bigger TS. And vice versa, they can both make axle splitting power; just have different powerbands and feel.

    The whole argument for power goes out the window as soon as you try comparing both types of FI. Its like saying what makes more power, supercharging or turbocharging? You can make the same amount of power using each method but the delivery, powerband, boost etc... is just different.

    Efficiency is not the problem, nor do I care to touch that topic, because the question is asked what the power output and power bands will look like and my answer is 1. different and 2. cant be compared.
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    Click here to enlarge

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    If a big centri makes more power than a TS, get a bigger TS. And vice versa, they can both make axle splitting power; just have different powerbands and feel.
    That is true, I can tell you this, a twin screw sure does feel more fun in everyday situations.
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  23. #73
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    Just IMO, I love the sound/feel and day to day driving of a TS V8. There is nothing, nothing, nothing like that feeling of having all your boost and all your displacement working together at any instant you want.
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    Click here to enlarge

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Just IMO, I love the sound/feel and day to day driving of a TS V8. There is nothing, nothing, nothing like that feeling of having all your boost and all your displacement working together at any instant you want.
    I do not disagree at all and motors like the S65 sure could use that torque benefit down low... a twin screw S65 would be a hell of a lot of fun but would 8300 rpm with a twin screw make sense like it does with a centri?
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  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why?
    If you have a set amount of energy, and one engine uses 70% of the total energy to produce torque and the rest wasted as heat, and the next engine uses 80% of the total energy to produce torque, and the third engine only wastes 10% as heat, which one is capable of creating the most torque using the same fuel(energy).

    According to data that I have seen, usually the top end products of each induction system are in this order of efficiency: (less efficient) Positive Displacement < Centrifugal < Turbo (more efficient)

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