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Thread: 8.9sec 60-130mph, pump gas and meth, full weight

              
   
  1. #1
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    8.9sec 60-130mph, pump gas and meth, full weight

    Here's the log of the run...pretty happy for pump gas and meth and full weight...from the log it seems its a touch aggressive for pump gas as its pulling a bit of timing but all in all very very nice, strong, performing car...next up will be throwing in some race gas and seeing the difference, again on full weight...then it'll be all out, pull out the passenger and rear seats LOL

    Goal I'm after is to get into the 7s, no NOS..

    Car currently weighs 3540lbs with half tank of gas, I'm 220-225lbs so about 3760lbs full weight...last night I was almost on an empty gas tank so that's about 60lbs less than above so 3700lbs with me in it...with the seats out it'll be 3560lbs, so about the weight that hotrod182 (3500lbs) is running on his freak 335i...how he traps 123mph barely hitting 17psi tapering to 14psi on stock turbos is beyond me

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    Almost 20psi pump and meth...? That's a little crazy! lol But either way 8.9 sec if fast!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Malaka1 Click here to enlarge
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    Almost 20psi pump and meth...? That's a little crazy! lol But either way 8.9 sec if fast!
    I know, a touch on the cookoo side for sure but imagine driving out 2 hours to the track and it rains literally 100feet before the gates and they close it on you and all you have in the end is another 2 hour ride back home Click here to enlarge I was glad I found that closed road that leads to mexico lol

    If you take a look at that log, red circles actually came from Terry pointing out to me why it wouldn't hold all the boost I wanted to run up top..it "only" held 19psi LOL no one advises me to run this of course, my car, I get to do it my way...glad it didn't blow up LOL
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    where is AFR?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    where is AFR?
    Crap, not in there, just noticed..that jpg came from terry and I guess he didn't include it in that graph as we were discussing boost up top...i'll get the AFR in there as well...don't trust me? lol
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    just wanna see it brother Click here to enlarge

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    Did you log it with Cobb as well or just using the jb software. Half those number have no real meaning cause the scale is so wierd

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
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    Did you log it with Cobb as well or just using the jb software. Half those number have no real meaning cause the scale is so wierd
    Can't log it with Cobb's AP while the JB4 is running as one collides with the other on the canbus...similar to why you can't run a BT tool for logging as well as a jb4/procede map..i'll post the csv if anyone is interested..
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    Man you guys are a tough crowd Click here to enlarge here you go, AFR log of that run...one thing I'm working on now tune wise is to try to get a bit more fuel pressure at the rail going from the COBB stockish map in particular down low...hopefully the COBB guys don't go crazy with me after all these updates..they've literally built 12 custom maps so far, I'm immensely grateful they're even paying any attention to me with all the stuff they have at hand, Rob in particular...if I had ATR in my hands I'd either have this done already as I'm constantly tinkering with it OR I'd blow up my engine Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Boost-a-pump hasn't been used yet and my goal is not to have any fuel control on the jb4 or from the BAP, just do it through a flash but its challenging this way...things might be easier/cleaner to do IF I did this on a cobb map that actually ran say stage2+ load targets especially fueling wise BUT that map doesn't run the stock timing which I want...again, all depends on how much the Cobb guys are willing to help at this point, both Terry and them have done quite a lot in this little aggressive pet project
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    ratehr impressive.. looks like you went a bit over 20 psi thought huh Click here to enlarge musta been fuuuuun... Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    ratehr impressive.. looks like you went a bit over 20 psi thought huh Click here to enlarge musta been fuuuuun... Click here to enlarge
    ya bottom of 3rd gear...jb4 was set to target 20.5psi as it always leaves that 0.5psi of room so it doesn't overshoot, so I was expecting 20psi flat to 6500rpm and then tapering to 18psi in the last 500rpm before redline..

    if you look at the boost log you'll see that the top of 3rd gear and all of 4th gear didn't go above 19psi...the reason for this is partially cobb's base map partially jb4's boost control hardware...if you look at the first jpg with red circles in it, JB4 doesn't have enough capacity with the 15ohm board that I have to add more PWM (as its called in the JB world) to up boost in that area so its tapped to that 19psi, but maybe its safer that way and I need to have race gas and gain some timing back...i've sent that same log over to Cobb to see if they can touch up the stockish base map I'm running so that past 5.5k rpm they add a touch more WGDC so that JB4's PWM wouldn't max out at 19psi up top and in 4th gear...

    squeezing every little thing out of this monster takes time but its slowly getting there I think Click here to enlarge

    LM, what do you run on the vbox? Ever done any runs with that thing?
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    Man this car turned from a mobile misfiring thing to a mobile firebreathing thing. lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
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    LM, what do you run on the vbox? Ever done any runs with that thing?
    ive only done pump/meth @ 17 psi fullweight and did unverified low 9.x's, ranging from 9.2 -9.5

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    One thing I've been pondering on for some time is to do some runs with the stock coils instead of Okadas...given that, on paper, they provide for a much stronger primary and especially secondary spark, theoretically they may be the only other reason why i've got room in the stock fuel system other than the fact the AFR curve was flashed...easy enough to play with coils to see, when there's some time, but it'd be worthwhile for the community to know if these coils were/are really worth their absurd price at these power levels
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    yes it would be..

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    ...and how about them NGK plugs putting up with all this $#@!...turning to be quite a viable combo it seems...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
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    ...and how about them NGK plugs putting up with all this $#@!...turning to be quite a viable combo it seems...
    yeah those plugs seems to hold well . Gonna throw the set i have in the basement next spring. That AFR really impresses me . Seems the limit was more due to the piggybacks than the fueling system itself.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
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    yeah those plugs seems to hold well . Gonna throw the set i have in the basement next spring. That AFR really impresses me . Seems the limit was more due to the piggybacks than the fueling system itself.
    I have been saying.g this for probably six months now lol

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    Until atr comes out, Dzenno maybe on to something here for big turbo setups. Nice run indeed!
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    Aggressive? Are you referring to the one timing drop at 40?

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    If you are at the limit of the over-aggressiveness, so can we conclude that 20psi is the useful maximum boost?

    Or are you planning to decrease timing?

    Or planning to run more meth, i.e. even more cooling and octane to increase the knock limit?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
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    Aggressive? Are you referring to the one timing drop at 40?
    That's what a lot of people don't realize actually. The stock timing curve under WOT should target higher timing even at the onset of WOT and post shift than what my graph shows above. A lot of ppl, me included, have been taught over the years with the N54 that as long as you're getting an upward sloping curve that everything is fine. The fact is that its not. Timing tables dictate a certain timing curve to which timing corrections are applied on a per cylinder basis. With the JB4 in there I can't monitor those, wish I could, but, the timing curves in my graph above aren't 100% solid even though they appear to be that way as they're sloping up quite nicely. Immediately at the time I go WOT boost goes high, AFR comes down as they should BUT timing goes lower than the set stock timing curve at the get-go, and this is what many people miss when looking at the logs as they're concentrating on mid-pull dropouts.

    For instance, look at the onset of 4th gear, post-shift from 3rd, in the first graph posted. You'll see that ignition advance wants to hit 10 right after the shift as shown in the graph but it gets corrected (retarded) down by the DME to about 7.5-8deg and then starts to ramp up but people miss that post-shift part for both AFR as well as timing and everyone just has their eyes pinned on what happens with boost most of the time.

    IMO, ANY time you have even a minimal drop, let alone 4 or more degrees of timing pulled, the DME basically isn't happy for whatever reason. Some say its knock some say its just the DME adjusting to conditions. Both are true, question is how to tell which is which and not having the ability to monitor all 6 cylinders for timing corrections basically cripples this research as you could sort of tell it was knock retard when its not just one cylinder being corrected but a few of them together.

    In summary, higher actual timing (i.e. less to no timing corrections that retard away from stock timing curve) should be possible on higher octane with the above boost/AFR/meth configuration and that's what I'll be going after next by introducing race gas on the dyno on Saturday morning.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
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    If you are at the limit of the over-aggressiveness, so can we conclude that 20psi is the useful maximum boost?

    Or are you planning to decrease timing?

    Or planning to run more meth, i.e. even more cooling and octane to increase the knock limit?
    We'll see what I can come up with, really not sure. I am anal about AFR, timing and boost and many would say you're looking to setup something that basically can't work 100% of the time as in that case you'd basically end up too conservative and I don't disagree at this point but I'm trying to work out what it is that'll max this out on both pump+meth (which is what I always run) as well as race gas (which I try to run when at the strip when time as well as fuel tank allow space wise) on "my car" as every car is a bit different and I've got some mods on it that others don't so there are some variables there.

    It requires a ton of tinkering but my drives to/from work have never been more enjoyable to tell you the truth Click here to enlarge just requires time and testing and testing and testing....and more testing...and then some more lol
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 09-30-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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