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  1. #1
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    Dyno'd: Stock vs. JB4 vs. Cobb

    So I like many people jumped the bandwagon when I got my 1er and grabbed a JBx however the car just wasn't happy, lots of timing correction, weak top end. My main concern is seeing logs with no timing drops and a safe smooth AFR, i don't argue the JB4 works for many people but its just didn't for me. Since I've gone to a flash the car just drive so much better, much smoother power delivery, power is up, logs are clean.

    I'm excited to get a fmic soon and see if we can get that HP up, start of run IAT 86F end of run seeing 136-144F depending on the pull, I'm guessing those temps are leaving at least 10hp on the table past 5,500.

    First sheet is Stock Vs. Cobb
    2nd sheet is Stock vs JB4 vs Cobb
    3rd sheet is 3 Cobb runs about 3 minutes between each
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    Any idea what all the peaks and troughs are on the JB4 dyno graph? Doesn't look nearly as smooth as the stock and COBB graphs.

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    Likely due huge timing corrections, in various logs with the JB4 it would pull 5 degrees of timing in places, that was the sole reason for trying a different tune to try to get the car happy without timing being pulled.

    Also..and very interesting, the boost control on the Cobb is much more steady. The Jb4 would come up, way overshoot, pull the boost back out, then bring it back up, etc. It was very wavy, the cobb map has a fairly smooth boost curve run to run.
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    Good results. Which map on JB4? I'd assume 1, also how much adaptation time between the runs?

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    What version of the JB4 were you running? Latest one? What octane and map? Those Jb4 graphs are not very smooth at all.

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    The JB4 had about 3-4 days of driving on it before putting it on the dyno, and yes Map 1 using 93oct ~540ft ASL.

    @leo985i: Using 8/6 firmware, also tried 8/15 on the street but didn't feel any difference.
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    Weird, my car just pulls and pulls very smoothly. Have you tried on Map 1 or 2. Have you tried contacting Terry? I'm sure he can help you out.

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    Tried map 1 and 5 and terry and i talked for weeks, the answer was to buy a CPS module, however enough is just enough for me and while the JB4 works for some cars, my car didn't like what the Jb4 was asking it to do in conjunction with the stock timing and I'd been hearing more and more good things about the Cobb so I picked one up and car runs great.
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    I see. Well, I'm glad you are loving the Cobb, maybe I'll try it one day. Does it auto clear O2 codes? and does it take advantage of mods?

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    What some don't understand there is some tuning when running a piggy. Generally you can choose a map and floor it, but many times this won't result in optimum, safe power. Many start off way too aggressive.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    I see. Well, I'm glad you are loving the Cobb, maybe I'll try it one day. Does it auto clear O2 codes? and does it take advantage of mods?
    Stage 2 was released yesterday and it does to my knowledge clear codes...what I don't know and I'm hoping that it does do is actually fix the o2 readings so that the car is emissions ready like Cobb does for other cars and not just auto-clear which means no CEL but also no emissions readiness, I don't have DP's yet so I haven't asked.

    The cobb is adaptive, but there are also choices on what maps to run, they now have Stage 1 (stock), Stage 2 (downpipes+(opt)Catback exhaust+intake), Stage 2+ which reccomends downpipes, full exhaust, and intake, and FMIC. They are working on Stage 1+ which calls for stock+FMIC , and I'm told after Stage 1+ they'll be working on race gas and meth maps.

    @JoshBoody - I'm not sure what your getting at, Terry and I traded emails for about 3 weeks and he never once asked me or suggested I change a setting with the JB4 other than to try Map5 and even map5 almost fully de-tuned still pulled timing. I'd think if there was anything to adjust Terry certainly would have asked me to do it as he was being quite helpful and always responded to emails promptly...I do give lots of props to Terry for his help and always answering my questions and reading logs, etc.
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    As far the JB4 I don't really have all the information to say what the problem might be. When you made your first post about the low dyne results with it I touched base with BMS who was working with you looking at some logs, etc, and they sent a batch of your logs over for me to look at. There was a drop here and there but didn't look anything as bad as what you saw on the dyno. For example here is one that I had received. I know the last dyno was done in 90 degree weather, was this new one done under the same conditions? They said they had suggested you try a new tank of gas and new plugs. Were either of those changed from the old dyno to the new? Also I noticed the last JB4 dyno you posted looked different than the one this time around?

    Mike

    edit - Tried to post the dyno and log but my account won't let me Click here to enlarge Images posted on 1addicts
    Last edited by mike@n54tuning.com; 09-23-2011 at 01:12 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sluflyer06 Click here to enlarge
    @JoshBoody - I'm not sure what your getting at, Terry and I traded emails for about 3 weeks and he never once asked me or suggested I change a setting with the JB4 other than to try Map5 and even map5 almost fully de-tuned still pulled timing. I'd think if there was anything to adjust Terry certainly would have asked me to do it as he was being quite helpful and always responded to emails promptly...I do give lots of props to Terry for his help and always answering my questions and reading logs, etc.
    If I recall correctly I suggested checking the dual cone intake, changing the plugs, changing gas stations, etc. Unfortunately I never saw logs from that first dyno so wasn't able to see exactly what the problem was with it but it's clearly not reflective of how a JB4 normally operates. I know it was done in 90 degree weather so I also suspected maybe an airflow/fan issue. I presume the Cobb dyno was also done in 90 degree weather? Maybe resetting the DCI, swapping plugs, changing gas, etc, contributed to the positive effect? Anyway it's a free country and you are of course free to post anything you'd like but IMHO I think the title is a bit misleading. It should be Stock vs. Cobb vs. Wounded JB4. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sluflyer06 Click here to enlarge
    Stage 2 was released yesterday and it does to my knowledge clear codes...what I don't know and I'm hoping that it does do is actually fix the o2 readings so that the car is emissions ready like Cobb does for other cars and not just auto-clear which means no CEL but also no emissions readiness, I don't have DP's yet so I haven't asked. The cobb is adaptive, but there are also choices on what maps to run, they now have Stage 1 (stock), Stage 2 (downpipes+(opt)Catback exhaust+intake), Stage 2+ which reccomends downpipes, full exhaust, and intake, and FMIC. They are working on Stage 1+ which calls for stock+FMIC , and I'm told after Stage 1+ they'll be working on race gas and meth maps.@JoshBoody - I'm not sure what your getting at, Terry and I traded emails for about 3 weeks and he never once asked me or suggested I change a setting with the JB4 other than to try Map5 and even map5 almost fully de-tuned still pulled timing. I'd think if there was anything to adjust Terry certainly would have asked me to do it as he was being quite helpful and always responded to emails promptly...I do give lots of props to Terry for his help and always answering my questions and reading logs, etc.
    You got me very interested on the Cobb, specially now that they have Stage 2. Are there any dynos out there, with the Stage 2+ setup?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If I recall correctly I suggested checking the dual cone intake, changing the plugs, changing gas stations, etc. Unfortunately I never saw logs from that first dyno so wasn't able to see exactly what the problem was with it but it's clearly not reflective of how a JB4 normally operates. I know it was done in 90 degree weather so I also suspected maybe an airflow/fan issue. I presume the Cobb dyno was also done in 90 degree weather? Maybe resetting the DCI, swapping plugs, changing gas, etc, contributed to the positive effect? Anyway it's a free country and you are of course free to post anything you'd like but IMHO I think the title is a bit misleading. It should be Stock vs. Cobb vs. Wounded JB4. Click here to enlarge
    I did change plugs, and multiple tanks of gas, logs are no different, also did re mount DCI using a measuring tape to exactly 1/2", and stock airbox as well. I even sent logs from 46F temps. I keep saying over and over I'm not trying to bash the product as it DOES WORK FOR MANY PEOPLE, however that doesn't mean its works for everyone and I'm not misleading anyone, my logs and dyno's show exactly how a car that seems to perfectly mechanically sound is running on a JB4. I don't seem to have any problem with smooth dyno charts using stock DME or on the Cobb so it would seem logical its a tune related issue. It's also not just the dyno, on the road the car feels totally different between the two. I'm not sure of the fan specs at the dyno but its leaps and bounds more powerful than the 3 other dyno's I'd been to with my Subaru the airflow has some serious pressure behind it instead of just a big breeze. It only took 2-3 minutes tops to get IAT all teh way back down wiht the dyno fan which isn't far from what I see on the road.


    @Leo: I'm not sure, the Stage 2 maps were just made publicly available yesterday evening I would guess we'll def. see some dyno's shortly. It's probably going to be awhile before I grab some downpipes so they won't be from me anytime soon. Fmic is next for me for sure.
    Last edited by sluflyer06; 09-23-2011 at 03:20 PM.
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    My point there is that those changes, plugs, gas, checking couplers, etc, all came after this first dyno was done, not after, so the JB4 dyno you're posting doesn't reflect those changes. If the weather was different during the runs, e.g., 90 degrees for the JB4 dyno, and 60-70 degrees for the Cobb dyno, that also has a huge impact on the overall numbers. Your logs had a few drops but nothing like what is seen in that dyno. In the end it seems for whatever reason your car would have benefited from the CPS module but troubleshooting aside I think the thread subject is a bit misleading. Just my opinion and not trying to thread jack here.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 09-23-2011 at 03:57 PM.

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    Your right the JB4 was not dyno'd after trying those changes, the logs didn't look any different and the butt dyno didn't change either so there really didn't seem to be a valid reason to spend the money or put that kind of stress on the car by strapping it to a dyno with it not running the way I wanted it to. I know weather is a variable with cars but there were some mornings on the way to work where it was in the mid 40s and everything felt the same.

    I know what your getting at, its not a 'problem free' Jb4 run up there with the others but the reality is the Jb4 just wouldn't work problem free for me so thats what it brought to the table and thats why I believe its fair. When I first slapped the Cobb on the first thing I did was a whole bunch of logs and they were all clean. If the JB4 had been working well for me I'd have stuck with it. If you think I wanted to spend $895 on an Accessport when I'd already bought a JB4 that is not the case, I wish the JB4 would have worked just fine. I think 3+ weeks of fighting with it and no improvement was plenty of time.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    My point there is that those changes, plugs, gas, checking couplers, etc, all came after this first dyno was done, not after, so the JB4 dyno you're posting doesn't reflect those changes. If the weather was different during the runs, e.g., 90 degrees for the JB4 dyno, and 60-70 degrees for the Cobb dyno, that also has a huge impact on the overall numbers. Your logs had a few drops but nothing like what is seen in that dyno. In the end it seems for whatever reason your car would have benefited from the CPS module but troubleshooting aside I think the thread subject is a bit misleading. Just my opinion.
    08' 135i MT || Cobb 3.01 Agr. Map / BMS DCI (currently on stock airbox) / Berk Tech. Full Street Exhaust || 272whp/295wtq w/ no tune ||

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    I work with a lot of customers so perhaps I'm not remembering this right but I recall the first I heard from you was that you did the disappointing dyno. We started troubleshooting causes including fixing the DCI couplers, replacing the plugs, etc, and you were still seeing timing drops in the logs. I think you were going to test 100 octane to verify there were no mechanical problems next? And maybe a week after I first heard for you I got an email saying you decided to switch over to the flash? Typically in your situation if after verifying the timing was solid on 100 octane ruling out any mechanical issues we probably would have just sent a CPS module over for free to verify it resolved the issue. One of the issues I recall was that the tuning was working fine then suddenly wasn't? I wonder if we ever did an adaption reset? Anyway in this case for whatever reason we weren't able to bring the full brunt of our support forth. I certainly didn't want you to have to spend $895 either. But in the end, as long as you are now happy, I'm happy.

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    Funny how nobody else using jb is posting here... Map 5 is autotuned so should run less boost? Cant be hardware related since cobb pulled nicely.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    Funny how nobody else using jb is posting here... Map 5 is autotuned so should run less boost? Cant be hardware related since cobb pulled nicely.
    It's well understood between the OP and myself that something wasn't working properly. After the dyno areas were looked at and things were changed but the logs still didn't quite add up. The new dyno reflects many of those changes like correcting the DCI couplers, changing plugs, using a different gas station, and cooler weather. Ultimately, I think in his case the CPS would have made the difference, but we didn't get to that point in the troubleshooting so it is what it is. The JB4 is perfectly capable of producing strong dyno numbers and always has in the past.

    The dynos are posted all the time. Here is one I noticed: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510785

    Even Cobb tested the JB4 on map 1 and produced a normal result: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=177

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    So 18whp autotuned is normal? 42 ignoring drop outs is normal as well?

    All the other tunes put down over 310 on that dyno.
    I said this before, jb4 works if you u run high octane or meth, pump gas, not so much.

    QUE terrys pump gas dynos for marketing purposes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    So 18whp autotuned is normal? 42 ignoring drop outs is normal as well?

    All the other tunes put down over 310 on that dyno.
    I said this before, jb4 works if you u run high octane or meth, pump gas, not so much.

    QUE terrys pump gas dynos for marketing purposes.
    42rw on a Mustang dyno for map 1 isn't the highest numbers I've seen nor is it the lowest. There are no timing drops in the chart unlike OP's chart which is clearly troubled. Map 1 tapers a boost a little more up top than Cobbs Stage1 does but it's not a major difference. They even have a Cobb S1 dyno (tune + DCI as the JB4 one had) posted with a similar delta there. But I'm happy to at least see you think the JB4 works on meth and race gas. That is an improvement. Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images   

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    Hence why Cobb does not recommend dci for stage one. Without it they put down 310 plus. As for u shiv is more full of $#@! then u ever will be.

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    Could the JB4 PnP cabling be blamed? or the actual JB unit? I run pump gas on map2 and my car runs great, I am off meth at the moment since I am upgrading to use the FSB instead of the vc-2+fs. I have 10-15 min every morning on the stock settings until the oil temp reaches 160F so I get to compare stock vs map2 more than I want, and I would never want the n54 stock again. The diff in top end power is huge.

    Anyway just wanted to say that the JB4 works great on pump gas, but if there turn out to be more power to have with a COBB stage 2+ flash I am interested in trying it out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    shiv is more full of $#@! then u ever will be.
    this brings a tear to my eye to hear you say that Click here to enlarge

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