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  1. #26
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    the s motors got slightly special displacement and cams. And a tune. They shared manifolds, both exhaust and intake, throttle bodies, head castings, pretty much block castings. M blocks got "special selection" for boring wide. The shared valves, guides, lifters... the few distinctions don't really make the M model special. The most special thing on these motors is the s52 camset. The 89.6mm crank later got used in a certain very special m54 as a nonM part.
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    Same head, same block. Different displacement, and different cams.
    Enough of an internal difference, more than just a tune...

  3. #28
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    No one ever said it was just a tune? LOL
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    No one ever said it was just a tune? LOL
    The point was a reference to the 1M.

  5. #30
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    Ahh gotcha Click here to enlarge
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  6. #31
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    I do understand where people are coming from when they say that the US E36 M3 motors should not have the S designation but the fact is that the official BMW designation is S50B30USA and S52. There are countless other examples of BMW not naming things 'how it should be', eg. E46 323i is actually a 2.5l motor, M52TU actually sharing far more in common with the M54 rather than the M52, etc

    So to steer this discussion into something with more practical meaning, what would you define as a 'different' series of motor? Where do we draw the line on where an engine is changed or developed significantly enough to categorise it into a different family of engine?

    For example if you defined a family of engines by cylinder spacing, all the M20, M42, M44, M50, M50TU, M52, M52TU, M54, S50B30USA, S52, S50 Euro, S50B32 and S54 would all be considered to be part of the same family as they all share a common 91mm cylinder spacing. However, most would consider this to be too generalised as an M20 shares almost nothing in common with an S54.

    In my opinion, for a series of engines to be defined as part of of a family, the following criteria should be met:
    1. Number of cylinders is common
    2. Crankshafts, rods and pistons are interchangeable (assuming bore is the same)
    3. Valvetrain components are interchangeable

    Going by this definition, M50, M50TU, M52, M52TU, M54, S50B30USA and S52 engines are part of the same family whilst Euro S50, S50B32 and S54 engines are part of a different family as the crankshafts are not interchangeable due to their larger main bearings, different rod big end bores and piston wrist pin sizes.

    Sound fair? Please discuss and feel free to submit your own ideas on the subject. Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Leo Click here to enlarge
    I do understand where people are coming from when they say that the US E36 M3 motors should not have the S designation but the fact is that the official BMW designation is S50B30USA and S52.
    True but BMW officially designates the 1M a M car yet their own definition labels M motors as starting with an S. An example of a contradiction even by BMW's own definitions.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Leo Click here to enlarge
    Going by this definition, M50, M50TU, M52, M52TU, M54, S50B30USA and S52 engines are part of the same family whilst Euro S50, S50B32 and S54 engines are part of a different family as the crankshafts are not interchangeable due to their larger main bearings, different rod big end bores and piston wrist pin sizes.
    Those motors really all are part of the M50 family. I don't think the crankshaft being interchangeable should be a main factor. The M50 family simply ended with the S54.

  8. #33
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    Sticky,

    I am interested to see how you would define it. I never really saw the Euro E36 M3 motors and S54 as the same family, even though it is defined this way in Wikipedia - but how credible is that?

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Leo Click here to enlarge
    Sticky,

    I am interested to see how you would define it. I never really saw the Euro E36 M3 motors and S54 as the same family, even though it is defined this way in Wikipedia - but how credible is that?
    Well, the S54 is the most different of the bunch but it still is considering part of that family.

    We all know the US S50 and S52 are pretty weak but they are still "S" motors. They had enough changes in my mind to justify it and BMW felt the same.

    I have no disagreement with BMW over any motor they have ever given an "S" designation to.

  10. #35
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    Uhh S50/S52 weak? Srsly??
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    Uhh S50/S52 weak? Srsly??
    Maybe he means in relation to the other S engines (euro S50 or S54 S65).

    200+whp/200+wtq ain't too bad.

    How do those stock pauer numbers compare to OTHER platforms (of their time or engineering age)?
    Click here to enlarge
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    milkt org

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    Uhh S50/S52 weak? Srsly??
    In naturally aspirated form compared to the S54 as well as the "real" S50.

    I was referring to the US motors which were slightly neutered.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by milkt Click here to enlarge
    Maybe he means in relation to the other S engines (euro S50 or S54 S65).

    200+whp/200+wtq ain't too bad.

    How do those stock pauer numbers compare to OTHER platforms (of their time or engineering age)?
    Surprisingly, you got this right.

  14. #39
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    Ah. I was thinking weak, as in weak internals Click here to enlarge
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  15. #40
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    Many discussion have been about USA S50/52,, are they or are they not a true S-engine,, i dont give a flying fxxx.. if these engines are F/I they can make a stunning result

    and i mean a truly impressive figures,,

    but for me ,, a true BMW S-engine is an engine with ITB,, a semi race oem engine out of the box from BMW

    10/4
    Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

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    ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ALPINA Click here to enlarge
    but for me ,, a true BMW S-engine is an engine with ITB,, a semi race oem engine out of the box from BMW
    Great post overall and I agree with this.

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