Close

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 110
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No

    Are all the big power setups running standalones? Is that the way to go?

    It seems we see so many turbo options for the E36 motors because of the tuning options. What makes various swaps possible and different hardware is the standalone, correct?

    Is there anything lost by going to a standalone? Any factory features? The E36's did not have complicated launch control programs or I-drive so it does not seem like a big deal.

    For example, someone can pick this up from Maximum PSI:

    E36 BMW Plug & Play AEM EMS
    Convert your E36 BMW to a fully programmable standalone ECU. Free yourself from chip tuning/flashing your stock ECU! This is the same setup used in our 9 second shop cars. Kit includes the following:

    AEM EMS
    PnP BMW harness
    DIS-4 CDI (add $430 for M&W Pro-14 CDI)
    3.5 or 5 bar MAP sensor
    IAT sensor
    OBD1 - $2850
    OBD2 - $2950 (uses OBD1 cam sensor)
    Add $300 for peak/hold driver box. Needed for low impedance injectors.

    Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    1,895
    Rep Points
    771.0
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    from what ive heard and read, going standalone sometimes loses the luxuries and convieninces that come with owning a bmw. if you're going to build a 9 second drag car, you dont care about the luxuries, the heated seats and climate control are probably not even in the car in that case. but if you want huge power, and want luxuries that came with the car stock, ive read that there are faults and issues, that it's sometimes better to piggy the dme or flash. i think you'd be suprised how many little things the dme controls that a tune doesnt ever need to use.

    edit: but then again we look at very happy HPF customers. HPF uses a stand alone right? but the a/c still works and all of the other creature comforts? so in conclusion i think it's specific to the purpose and user
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    from what ive heard and read, going standalone sometimes loses the luxuries and convieninces that come with owning a bmw. if you're going to build a 9 second drag car, you dont care about the luxuries, the heated seats and climate control are probably not even in the car in that case. but if you want huge power, and want luxuries that came with the car stock, ive read that there are faults and issues, that it's sometimes better to piggy the dme or flash. i think you'd be suprised how many little things the dme controls that a tune doesnt ever need to use.

    edit: but then again we look at very happy HPF customers. HPF uses a stand alone right? but the a/c still works and all of the other creature comforts? so in conclusion i think it's specific to the purpose and user
    HPF uses a standalone with the factory DME

    I think maximum PSI and some of the other E36 builders use the standalone by itself. I may be wrong, waiting for our E36 experts to chime in.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    What exactly do you want to know? Not really sure where you are going with this thread, please be more specific.

    The stock DME is *better* than a stand alone, or at least any stand alone you would want to put on an E36.

    Injector size has limitations currently. You could put any High Impedance injector in your car and in theory have it tuned on a stock DME, but I am not aware of anyone tuning anything larger than 60lbers yet.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tron Click here to enlarge
    What exactly do you want to know? Not really sure where you are going with this thread, please be more specific.

    The stock DME is *better* than a stand alone, or at least any stand alone you would want to put on an E36.
    Well I guess I am being pretty general.

    My question is really that if I want to run a turbo on the S50/M50 motors, do I do it with the factory DME or do I need a standalone?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well I guess I am being pretty general.

    My question is really that if I want to run a turbo on the S50/M50 motors, do I do it with the factory DME or do I need a standalone?
    You can use either, it is your preference. You already have a DME, and standalones are costly, might as well utilize what you have, right?

    But there are a lot of other variables. How much power do you want? Who do you want to tune it? Is it OBDI or OBD II? Do you want draw through or blow through?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tron Click here to enlarge
    You can use either, it is your preference. You already have a DME, and standalones are costly, might as well utilize what you have, right?

    But there are a lot of other variables. How much power do you want? Who do you want to tune it? Is it OBDI or OBD II? Do you want draw through or blow through?
    I see, I see, using the factory DME is primarily a cost concern?

    Basically, are the big power setups, the top guys, running standalones?

    If the factory DME can be tuned reliably for a mild turbo setup on stock internals that sounds great to me.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    No it is not primarily a cost concern.

    What do you consider "big power"? Mike R and CC are running standalones, for what that is worth.

    The stock DME is used in many built engine cars, and has seen well over 600 whp. I cant remember, but I am pretty sure George is using a stock OBD II DME tuned by Nick G in his twin gt28r M coupe.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tron Click here to enlarge
    No it is not primarily a cost concern.

    What do you consider "big power"? Mike R and CC are running standalones, for what that is worth.

    The stock DME is used in many built engine cars, and has seen well over 600 whp. I cant remember, but I am pretty sure George is using a stock OBD II DME tuned by Nick G in his twin gt28r M coupe.
    I guess I would consider big power anything requiring built internals.

    Thanks for answering my questions, was not sure how flexible the stock DME was.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Points
    6.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tron Click here to enlarge
    No it is not primarily a cost concern.

    What do you consider "big power"? Mike R and CC are running standalones, for what that is worth.

    The stock DME is used in many built engine cars, and has seen well over 600 whp. I cant remember, but I am pretty sure George is using a stock OBD II DME tuned by Nick G in his twin gt28r M coupe.
    Unfortunately, that engine blew up because George was pushing way too much tq/hp out of the factory rods. Once again proving that 600whp is the limit for factory rods.

    I am dynoing my setup this weekend with a professionally built engine and a GT35R. 20psi on 93 octane on a legitimate, reputable dyno shop, Max PSI, in NJ.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    275
    Rep Points
    120.2
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Mr Kahn.. the factory rods survived my gt28R set-up for a very long time to say the least at 600whp.. When I installed the 2871R's the car made 761 WHP on a stock internals VIA low compression head gasket on 25-26 PSI. When I took the car down the road, more load 30 PSI the car ended up folding a few connecting rods. It's not the whp that is crucial, it's the torque spike upon peak torque which causes the connecting rods to fail.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Points
    6.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    Mr Kahn.. the factory rods survived my gt28R set-up for a very long time to say the least at 600whp.. When I installed the 2871R's the car made 761 WHP on a stock internals VIA low compression head gasket on 25-26 PSI. When I took the car down the road, more load 30 PSI the car ended up folding a few connecting rods. It's not the whp that is crucial, it's the torque spike upon peak torque which causes the connecting rods to fail.
    Mister KAKALETRIS, everytime you post, you prove my point. Your car was a time bomb once you went over 600whp. On the m5x/s5x engines, the tq numbers will be very similar to the hp numbers on a midsize turbo. Thus, 600whp on a TT setup as you had or a GT35R is going to yield close to 600whp. Your logic is completely incorrect about why your connecting rods failed - 600wtq rise over 5k rpm vs 2k rpm has no bearing on rod failure as long as the tune is correct - afrs and timing. I don't see why you don't get that.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    275
    Rep Points
    120.2
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    With all due respect Doctor, I do not quiz you on your knowledge because that is your profession, you are not a mechanic, master technician, engine builder, tuner etc..

    I have walked the walk many times, the proof is in the pudding.
    Last edited by ICS Performance; 05-05-2010 at 06:09 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Points
    6.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I studied physics so I know understand concepts such as torque and work (hp). I also have common sense. I know more about your profession than you know more about mine so let's not go there. As for your analogy, you liken your logic to a piece of metal that has a certain load capacity of say 1000 lb. If someone gradually places the 1000 lb on the metal at 100 lb per second vs putting all 1000 lb down in one sec, is there any difference in the metal's ability to handle that load? If you can't answer this correctly, then you have no business in your field. Remember this is an innate characteristic of the alloy. These are forged steel connecting rods we are talking about with a threshhold capacity to handle a certain amount of torque with no bearing on how fast that torque is applied. This is getting A BIT ridiculous. I feel like I am teaching a physics lesson to a high-school adolescent. George, did you pass high school physics?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    275
    Rep Points
    120.2
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Keep reading and doing what your doing it will get you know where... You could not shine my shoes when it comes to anything mechanically related especially cars.

    As far as your profession... I will leave it at that LOL

    Enjoy trashing me on this forum.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Points
    6.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    Keep reading and doing what your doing it will get you know where... You could not shine my shoes when it comes to anything mechanically related especially cars.

    As far as your profession... I will leave it at that LOL

    Enjoy trashing me on this forum.
    Once again, you have no intelligent or technical reply. You simply make delusional claims of grandeur and attack me with no substance behind your remarks. This is typical behavior for someone like you who doesn't know wtf he is talking about, even in your own profession. You're such a clown. I guess that it is completely logical then that you keep blowing up engines, e.g. Sean's old M3 (your current Stage 1 GT40R M3), your M Coupe's s52, Card Counter's m52, and now this 328i which is currently at your shop.

    The definition of insanity is to repeat a certain action and expect a different result each time. You're pushing beyond 600whp and bending rods every time. You are blaming that on the turbo and not on your insanity. Your Stage 1 car is a time bomb at its current level. I can't wait to hear your excuse when it does blow ...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    Once again, you have no intelligent or technical reply. You simply make delusional claims of grandeur and attack me with no substance behind your remarks. This is typical behavior for someone like you who doesn't know wtf he is talking about, even in your own profession. You're such a clown. I guess that it is completely logical then that you keep blowing up engines, e.g. Sean's old M3 (your current Stage 1 GT40R M3), your M Coupe's s52, Card Counter's m52, and now this 328i which is currently at your shop.

    The definition of insanity is to repeat a certain action and expect a different result each time. You're pushing beyond 600whp and bending rods every time. You are blaming that on the turbo and not on your insanity. Your Stage 1 car is a time bomb at its current level. I can't wait to hear your excuse when it does blow ...
    Come on, no need to drag the fight into every single thread. You have more than spoken your piece and I do not mind for you to have your voice heard.

    You can talk to him without insulting him each time. You have 2 threads where you can discuss all your grievances with ICS, it is plenty.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ICS Performance Click here to enlarge
    It's not the whp that is crucial, it's the torque spike upon peak torque which causes the connecting rods to fail.
    Um, yeah. This is false. There is a thread on bf.c that people interested in this can read, rather than rehashing the entire debate here. You took part in the thread, you should know by now this is false.

    No need to mislead potential customers.

    Thread from BF.C http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1408528

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    275
    Rep Points
    120.2
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    0 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Wrong my friend, I am sorry but I have walked the walk many times. I have built more of these car more than anyone else..

    We are talking experience here not theory.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Hmmm. Actually you are talking theory by disregarding physics, while we are discussing facts.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tron Click here to enlarge
    Hmmm. Actually you are talking theory by disregarding physics, while we are discussing facts.
    I don't really see the argument here, horsepower is a function of torque. Sounds like he is saying past a certain point the torque bent the rods, right?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't really see the argument here, horsepower is a function of torque. Sounds like he is saying past a certain point the torque bent the rods, right?
    Nope. George contends that "quicker" torque (think about it in relation to a dyno graph from a turbo car, the graph will get more vertical) from a GT35r is more likely to bend rods than a GT40r, given the same exact peak torque.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Points
    6.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't really see the argument here, horsepower is a function of torque. Sounds like he is saying past a certain point the torque bent the rods, right?
    Actually what ICS George Kak is saying is that he makes up the laws of physics based on blowing up engines in the same manner over and over past 600whp. He thinks that because he is using the super-spooling GT35R or a twin turbo setup in the form of Garrett GT series (GT28RS and GT2871R) the stock rods couldn't handle the rapid torque increase over time. What he fails to realize is that each time he used all of these turbos, he went past the INDUSTRY RECOGNIZED limit of the m52/s52 rods of 600whp.

    He also doesn't see the MERIT of a fuel pressure gauge when doing a turbo install, hence the m52 he blew up in his shop recently due to a "corroded line to the FPR."

    Lies and excuses don't make the man George. Didn't daddy tell you that? Oh wait, daddy DID TELL YOU THAT! That explains why you're going out of business.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tron Click here to enlarge
    Nope. George contends that "quicker" torque (think about it in relation to a dyno graph from a turbo car, the graph will get more vertical) from a GT35r is more likely to bend rods than a GT40r, given the same exact peak torque.
    Well, why would a GT35r be more likely to bend the rods than a G40R? Because the power band is further to the left?

    Maybe more torque at low rpm is the issue? Is that what he is saying?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    176
    Rep Points
    36.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, why would a GT35r be more likely to bend the rods than a G40R? Because the power band is further to the left?
    Maybe more torque at low rpm is the issue? Is that what he is saying?
    Dude, what he is saying is that a quicker spooling turbo is more likely to bend rods. Read the bfc thread, he says it multiple times, and he said it twice here.

    Start reading between the lines.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •