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  1. #26
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    I am sure they can be bought cheap, seems like no one has used them. I am sure Schrick wants to recover some R&D costs somehow.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stega Click here to enlarge
    Any update on these??
    Haven't seen anybody use them. I think they would make an appreciable difference especially if one revved higher.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Haven't seen anybody use them. I think they would make an appreciable difference especially if one revved higher.
    Cams would require some type of custom tuning correct??

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stega Click here to enlarge
    Cams would require some type of custom tuning correct??
    Yes.

  5. #30
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    so what's up Sticky ? YSI + Stroker + Custom cams ?

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    so what's up Sticky ? YSI + Stroker + Custom cams ?
    I don't think I'm even going to bother with stroking it.

  7. #32
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    Boost is your friend. No need for expensive $#@! like cams, strokers blablabla. Boost is gods gift to man, and then let there be light.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Boost is your friend. No need for expensive $#@! like cams, strokers blablabla. Boost is gods gift to man, and then let there be light.
    Yep, seems like the answer is to throw as much boost at it as possible. Just not sure how much that will be...

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Boost is your friend. No need for expensive $#@! like cams, strokers blablabla. Boost is gods gift to man, and then let there be light.
    Amen brotha! Click here to enlarge

  10. #35
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    I said one day, just one day, im gonna build an M10 for 1000 HP. You just wait and see, 40 psi+ boost 2 liter panzertank.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Wait till you hear a cammed M156 Click here to enlarge

    vids. NOW. Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    vids. NOW. Click here to enlarge
    Here they are: http://www.benzboost.com/showthread....-Initial-Video

  13. #38
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    If you put cams into this engine alone not alot will happen.

    You need to know exactly what to do with the ignition, vanos (inlet and exhaust) fuel and torque maps.

    Get this right and it's the NA fan's dream!

    Just to give you an example.

    Take a stock S62 b50. Put some cams in it. Not alot will happen. Maybe around 10hp but with a massive torque drop. Throw a normal tune on it.... still nothing happens.

    Get the cam timing right and you will gain incredibly amounts of power from the tuning. Why? Because the stock VANOS profile was designed for the stock cams. Once you calibrate all of this the gains from the combination of cams and correct tuning can be very high.

    The problem - hardly anyone knows how to calibrate cam timing! Speak to the majority of tuners and ask them to explain what happens inside the combustion chamber and the effect of opening and closing the valves at different times. Most will fall on their arse there and then.

    You cannot of course compare to forced induction! But not everyone wants to go down that route.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    The problem - hardly anyone knows how to calibrate cam timing! Speak to the majority of tuners and ask them to explain what happens inside the combustion chamber and the effect of opening and closing the valves at different times. Most will fall on their arse there and then.
    This is exactly right, but what tuners can do it?

    How much power can be gained on the S62 with proper cam timing and aggressive Schrick cams? What about the S85 and S65?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    S62 gains around 10-15hp on average from tuning with stock cams.

    With cams, you have to do more work obvioulsy but the power climbs to something like 35-40hp.

    Same thing with the S54 engine and pretty much anything else with variable valve cam timing.

    Which tuners can do this? They are around. Some don't want to be mentioned on forums, others don't really care.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Which tuners can do this? They are around. Some don't want to be mentioned on forums, others don't really care.
    I'm guessing you would classify yourselves as one?

    I understand some don't want to be mentioned but then how do we find them?

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    Of course I can do it. Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Of course I can do it. Click here to enlarge
    Well at least we know one tuner now who can do tunes for Schrick cams Click here to enlarge

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    If you put cams into this engine alone not alot will happen.

    You need to know exactly what to do with the ignition, vanos (inlet and exhaust) fuel and torque maps.

    Get this right and it's the NA fan's dream!

    Just to give you an example.

    Take a stock S62 b50. Put some cams in it. Not alot will happen. Maybe around 10hp but with a massive torque drop. Throw a normal tune on it.... still nothing happens.

    Get the cam timing right and you will gain incredibly amounts of power from the tuning. Why? Because the stock VANOS profile was designed for the stock cams. Once you calibrate all of this the gains from the combination of cams and correct tuning can be very high.

    The problem - hardly anyone knows how to calibrate cam timing! Speak to the majority of tuners and ask them to explain what happens inside the combustion chamber and the effect of opening and closing the valves at different times. Most will fall on their arse there and then.

    You cannot of course compare to forced induction! But not everyone wants to go down that route.
    Yes you are 100% correct and it's about time someone mentioned this. Cam upgrades alone wont do $#@! on vanos cars (unless the cams are stock grind with high lift then you get better curtain flow). Cam timing controls THE EVENTS at which the valves open and close THAT IS ALL.

    Seems simple, but in reality there is a lot of very very complex fluid vibrations occurring in the intake and exhaust manifolds. I am sure you have heard of Helmholtz resonance.

    Dyno tuning with cam advance takes many many hours of dyno time and is stressful on the engine. You basically lock the exhaust cam in one position, and dyno the intake cam with 10 degrees, 15 degrees, 20 degrees etc.. advance and produce a bunch of differing dyno charts. Then you do the same with the exhaust cam, the problem is; it changes the original power curve that the intake cam angles produced because both INTAKE AND EXHAUST cams are intimately tied together.

    Finding optimal power with variable cams is very difficult for a typical engine tuner. OEMs spend millions of dollars trying to predict engine dynamics using complicated fluid dynamics tools. Knowing exactly when the most inertial packing takes place and the most exhaust scavenging can only be done through an iterative process on the dyno. Which is expensive and time consuming, stick with stock cams.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Yes you are 100% correct and it's about time someone mentioned this. Cam upgrades alone wont do $#@! on vanos cars (unless the cams are stock grind with high lift then you get better curtain flow). Cam timing controls THE EVENTS at which the valves open and close THAT IS ALL.

    Seems simple, but in reality there is a lot of very very complex fluid vibrations occurring in the intake and exhaust manifolds. I am sure you have heard of Helmholtz resonance.

    Dyno tuning with cam advance takes many many hours of dyno time and is stressful on the engine. You basically lock the exhaust cam in one position, and dyno the intake cam with 10 degrees, 15 degrees, 20 degrees etc.. advance and produce a bunch of differing dyno charts. Then you do the same with the exhaust cam, the problem is; it changes the original power curve that the intake cam angles produced because both INTAKE AND EXHAUST cams are intimately tied together.

    Finding optimal power with variable cams is very difficult for a typical engine tuner. OEMs spend millions of dollars trying to predict engine dynamics using complicated fluid dynamics tools. Knowing exactly when the most inertial packing takes place and the most exhaust scavenging can only be done through an iterative process on the dyno. Which is expensive and time consuming, stick with stock cams.
    I think I'm not going to touch my cams now.

  21. #46
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    Glad someone speaks the same language!

    It is not however essential to stress the engine for part throttle tuning. Not even the factory VANOS profile is optimal and neither do you want it optimal. All depends on the strategy you implement.

    Ours is to make the engine run smoothly and drive just like stock.

    Full throttle tuning is just too easy and less stressful than driving on the road as long as the ramp rate is sensible and excellent cooling is provided. The great things about the MSS60 is that we can flash a file in around 30 seconds and just keep going until we hit optimal power.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Glad someone speaks the same language!

    It is not however essential to stress the engine for part throttle tuning. Not even the factory VANOS profile is optimal and neither do you want it optimal. All depends on the strategy you implement.

    Ours is to make the engine run smoothly and drive just like stock.

    Full throttle tuning is just too easy and less stressful than driving on the road as long as the ramp rate is sensible and excellent cooling is provided. The great things about the MSS60 is that we can flash a file in around 30 seconds and just keep going until we hit optimal power.
    I am interested to hear how you tune variable cam angles, not a lot of people even bother doing it.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  23. #48
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    We can discuss that off the forum.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    We can discuss that off the forum.
    But then we don't learn anything...

  25. #50
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    would love to hear a cammed s65, I have no idea how it would sound.

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