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  1. #1
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    True about 2 N54 engine failures?

    1. Rb turbos with nitro
    2. Fbo and meth
    Both running jb4?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Yeah its true but I don't know the exact details...they were still gathering data/pics to find the root cause/impact...i'm most puzzled about the 18psi FBO on stock turbos and meth...oldbooster had RB turbos and nos and I know he ran a few days ago with a .40 shot with the setup and didn't damage anything then but back then he didn't crank boost up yet...whatever the case I'd just love to see what happened to learn more on the failure....

    sucks, feel bad for the guys no matter what...
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    It was already discussed in this thread: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...E82-135i/page2

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS
    With OB I know something broke last week but I haven't heard from him as to what yet. He hasn't had a chance to tear it down and inspect the parts. He's been running a stock short block though. He happened to be logging at the time and everything looked pretty normal for the car. I believe he was off the bottle using a race gas mix and meth when it broke. If it turns out to be a piston I know he has some lower CR forged pistons he's been waiting for. Hopefully he lucks out and its just a head gasket. Either way it really looks like Alpina got it right with the piston swap for higher power levels.
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Shiv@Vishnu
    Terry, do you know what happened to the other customer engine that failed recently?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS
    Yeah, an intake valve kissed the piston during an accidental burn out box over rev.

    Our trusty PID tuner az335iat. It took a little chip out of the valve relief on the piston but car ran fine, wasn't smoking, etc. Aside from the occasional misfire at idle after. We were both surprised to see the piston chip missing when he took the head off. I suggested the budget fix of just throwing a new valve in it and polishing the piston top a bit but he choose to fix it the right way with a 2nd hand shortblock.

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    Sucks big time... Been there done that hopefully will help to further develop this platform.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  5. #5
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    blown up engines aren't a drama anymore it seems Click here to enlarge really the way it should be ONLY if data is provided so we can learn from it...or we'll just have more blown engines and no solutions ever
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    blown up engines aren't a drama anymore it seems
    Only if you are the competition.

    No secret some people are pushing these pretty hard. Motors will be lost in the process. It happens on EVERY platform.

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    Wow is this true?? and if it is, won't this be the second time for Oldbooster?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sparky66 Click here to enlarge
    Wow is this true?? and if it is, won't this be the second time for Oldbooster?
    It would be true for Old Booster being his second motor.

    Shiv's posts weren't deleted, he was told to follow the Guest Vendor rules. Shiv seems to think he can do whatever he wants but he is a GUEST here. If he doesn't want to follow the rules for non-sponsors then I have no choice but to do what is necessary to enforce them.

    I will likely be clamping down on non-vendors even further, Shiv in particular.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sparky66 Click here to enlarge
    Wow is this true?? and if it is, won't this be the second time for Oldbooster?
    I think he and his local shop have a small collection of motors. Click here to enlarge The first time he sucked up water and hydrolocked it. Was replaced by his insurance company, IIRC. I know this one has been smoking since he put the turbos on but we always assumed it was a turbo drain problem. Maybe they are fine and it's always had a ring issue. The tear down will be interesting.

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    So the best info we have so far is that OB wasn't spraying at the time of failure, correct? We all know that his last trip to the track he was pushing the boost preety high in extreme heat. Hopefully all the info makes it here as to what went wrong.
    07 e92 335i Best run: 11.83@ 120.04 w/ 1.84 60' & 2127 DA

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    Is it even possible to overrev doing a burnout? Rev limiter should just bounce , the only way to overrev is well shifting completely wrong?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  12. #12
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    I've done it a few times. You are chugging along in 2nd gear at high RPM on drag radials doing a burn out and release the brakes to let the car roll forward. Then sometimes the tires hit more water break loose and the motor takes off on you before you get let off the gas. The throttle closes at around 7000rpm but the momentum can push the engine well above that. I've hit 7200rpm few times accidentally but never had an issue. If your transmission is failing you can also have a similar thing where it will let go suddenly and the motor will shoot up to 7200rpm+. If the valve does hit the piston you'll know it right away. Car will start misfiring before you can even do your run.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Trevor008 Click here to enlarge
    So the best info we have so far is that OB wasn't spraying at the time of failure, correct? We all know that his last trip to the track he was pushing the boost preety high in extreme heat. Hopefully all the info makes it here as to what went wrong.
    From what he told me he was just cruising along at 18psi no nitrous doing that log above when it started smoking worse than normal. But, as we know the motor has seen some abuse with the nitrous and higher boost levels.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 08-01-2011 at 03:43 PM.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Some of the items I don't understand per the burnout situation:
    1. valve float at only 200rpm above "factory" redline... doesn't seem possible. Any other cases... this seems like it could be a somewhat non-isolated occurrence.
    2. This event would have to happen when valve is closing and piston on upward travel, thus CANNOT be the intake valve.
    3. Since under boost during a burnout, most likely VANOS is advanced for the exhaust valve, meaning it closes earlier. This means less lift per the crank degrees when piston is approaching.

    Pics of the piston would be great. I'm not saying there's deception, but some further explanation would be good for understanding purposes. Maybe we should all reduce the redline if possible... cause I don't want a chance of valve to piston contact.

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    Cobb raises the rev limiter to 7200rpm and I've revved it a few times all the way out without any issues...but holding 18psi to there is definitely no the same as 9-10psi especially on RBs and in my case 4deg less timing..

    Hope he's back on the road with it even stronger soon...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    1. valve float at only 200rpm above "factory" redline... doesn't seem possible. Any other cases... this seems like it could be a somewhat non-isolated occurrence.
    Hitting the limiter hard can cause valve damage as well even if the springs/valves are rated higher. I think this is what did in one of my valves early on due to a downshift with shorter gears.

  17. #17
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Some of the items I don't understand per the burnout situation:
    1. valve float at only 200rpm above "factory" redline... doesn't seem possible. Any other cases... this seems like it could be a somewhat non-isolated occurrence.
    2. This event would have to happen when valve is closing and piston on upward travel, thus CANNOT be the intake valve.
    3. Since under boost during a burnout, most likely VANOS is advanced for the exhaust valve, meaning it closes earlier. This means less lift per the crank degrees when piston is approaching.

    Pics of the piston would be great. I'm not saying there's deception, but some further explanation would be good for understanding purposes. Maybe we should all reduce the redline if possible... cause I don't want a chance of valve to piston contact.
    From my understanding the intake valve is bent, a piece of the valve relief under that valve is chipped, and it all started after an over-rev burn out. I've heard of other floated valves but doesn't seem to be a common occurrence. I'm sure he will post up info and photos when he can.

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    Ouch.
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Cobb raises the rev limiter to 7200rpm and I've revved it a few times all the way out without any issues...but holding 18psi to there is definitely no the same as 9-10psi especially on RBs and in my case 4deg less timing..
    .
    Sorry but boost has nothing to do with valves hitting the pistons. Whether the valves will float or not is entirely determined by their weight and the strength of the valve springs.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Sorry but boost has nothing to do with valves hitting the pistons. Whether the valves will float or not is entirely determined by their weight and the strength of the valve springs.
    Also have to factor in wear, heat and age. They are built of high tensile metal but after so many revolutions they do lose some of their effectiveness.

    Look at some of us with our old M20 and M30 engines. Not uncommon to break a rocker arm, or even worse break a valvespring when pushing a 15-20 year old engine...and thats not even over-revving it by accident.

  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Sorry but boost has nothing to do with valves hitting the pistons. Whether the valves will float or not is entirely determined by their weight and the strength of the valve springs.
    Of course boost plays a role Click here to enlarge google boost induced valve float...
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    $#@! happens

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Of course boost plays a role Click here to enlarge google boost induced valve float...
    Vas is right it would have nothing to do with valve hitting the piston... you have the whole compression stroke to close the valve. And no way is boost going to unseat a valve.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Here is AZ335iat's post over on n54:

    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13296
    07 e92 335i Best run: 11.83@ 120.04 w/ 1.84 60' & 2127 DA

  25. #25
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    thanks for the link trevor, finally the story straight from the horse's mouth.
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