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Thread: Procede News from team vishnu

              
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    Procede News from team vishnu

    [QUOTE=shiv@vishnu;9947933]Hi guys,
    Happy 4th of July weekend to all!

    We've been quite on the forums and this should explain why. One of the things we've been working on for quite some time now is a brand new Procede User Software. But unlike earlier versions, one that gives the user full effective map-abiity. This software will allow any competent user to dial in their car for their particular modifications and conditions. While autotuning gave the ability to effectively scale between one conservative map and one aggressive map, it did not allow you to tune the two map ranges. And while wastegate compensation scaled the Wastegate DC table with respect to average PID error correction, it did not "shape" the map to best suite any given set-up. Nor could you set discrete values/settings such as PID components, integral delays, throttle reaction coefficients, warm-up thresholds, gear change sensitivities, overboost thresholds, slew rate limters, 3D AFR targets and so on and so on. While we got closer than any other kind of off-the-shelf map, we could not, by its very nature, be spot-on in all applications, in all conditions. That is going to change now.

    Of course, with fully functional User Programming Software comes full tuning documentation. We are going to start off with a Basic tutorial covering the more basic tables and then release an intermediate and advance tutorial covering the secondary, but equally important tables/settings/values. While not everyone will want to learn this, those who do can benefit greatly from following our step-by-step custom tuning suggestions. Those who do not feel comfortable doing this, can simply run the default maps. They will give up a bit of performance. But they are as good as it gets without stepping into the realm of custom tuning.

    Projected release date for the User Programming Software is Monday, July 11th. We are just finishing up some documentation/details at this time. Here is the preliminary version of the Basic Tutorial. It will develop over time as we get more feedback and enable more maps/settings for user adjustability. Currently, there are about 20 maps/tables/settings enabled for customer adjust-ability. As we document more and ensure that value ranges are limited for safety, we will enable more. Eventually, we should have over 200 available for customers. But 99.9% of customer needs should be satisfied with the User Programming Software at initial launch. It's also worth mentioning that we have added several new datalog channels. All of which are there to facilitate the custom tuning process.

    Here's a peek of what we have documented so far:

    Procede N54 User Tuning Software Basic Tutorial

    FUEL MAPPING

    Open Loop Fuel Map 1 (Open Loop Fuel table for Map1)
    Click here to enlarge
    This map controls open loop fuel delivery. The larger the positive number, the more fuel delivery. It is important to keep transitions between cells relatively smooth or else you may induce drivability issues (hiccups, hesitations, etc.) as you transition from load to load or rpm to rpm. This table does not define the AFR target. This table defines the initial fuel output before the DME’s closed loop fuel control feature becomes active. This means that is useful to “dial in” this table so it works complementarily with the AFR Target table. You can do this by monitoring/datalogging Fuel Trims (debug word 5 and de increasing the values the appropriate rpm/load cells. Conversely, if you log very negative fuel trims, you can increase them by decreasing the values in the appropriate rpm/load cells. It is impossible to map the fuel table to always see WOT fuel trims of 0% as conditions are always changing.

    A good rule of thumb is to dial in this table so that fuel trims are in the +10 to +15% range. Targeting very negative fuel trims (-20 to -34%) would mean that the car would initially run rich for a moment before the CL (Closed Loop) fuel system added its corrective fuel trim. This sounds safe but can results in very obvious drivability issues (misfire, bogging, etc,.) during sudden changes of throttle position. Likewise, targeting very positive fuel trims (+20 to +34%) would mean that the engine would initially run lean until the CL fuel system added its corrective trim.

    The CL fuel system has a range of +34 to -34%). If you see logs showing sustained max or min values, the CL fuel system isn’t able to induce enough trim to achieve the desired AFR target. So if trims are +34%, this means the engine is running leaner than the target. If trims are -34, the engine is running richer than the target. In either case, open loop fueling should be adjusted. This can be done globally through the Open Loop Fueling User Adjustable. Or, with much higher granularity, through Open Loop Fuel table itself. If adjusting through the User Adjustable parameter, only a global scalar offset will be applied (ie, it will reduce/increase fuel delivery across the board by the same %).

    The Y-axis represents RPM. The X-axis is charge pipe pressure (pre-throttle body) in kiloPascals (kPA). 100kPa is equal to 1 bar (1 atmospheric pressure or 14.5psi) at sea level (0psi). 200kPa is equal to 2 bar of pressure (1 bar, or 14.5psi of boost) The active cell is highlighted when the User Software is connected to the Procede. Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.

    Open Loop Fuel Map 2 (Open Loop Fuel table for Map2)
    Same as above but for Map2. For those running methanol injection, it’s useful to dial this table in properly to avoid seeing big fuel trim swings when methanol spray enables/disables. So the larger the nozzle you run (and/or the stronger the methanol mix), the lower the values should be in Fuel Map 2. If you do not adjust this table accordingly, running big nozzles can result in short-term (before CL fuel system can correct for it) rich conditions that can cause partial throttle hesitations or degrade engine response while transitioning from one throttle/load combination to another. If you dial in both Fuel Map1 and Fuel Map2 properly, you should be able to see any significant changes to fuel trims as methanol turns on/off. As with Fuel map 1, a simpler (but less precise) alternative to adjusting the values in this table is to adjust the Open Loop Fueling adjustable value. If you are not running progressive methanol injection, you can set Fuel Map 2 equal to Fuel Map 1.

    The Y-axis represents RPM. The X-axis is charge pipe pressure (pre-throttle body) in kiloPascals (kPA). 100kPa is equal to 1 bar (1 atmospheric pressure or 14.5psi) at sea level (0psi). 200kPa is equal to 2 bar of pressure (1 bar, or 14.5psi of boost) The active cell is highlighted when the User Software is connected to the Procede. Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.

    AFR Target Offset (Air-Fuel Ratio Target Offset for both Map1 and Map2)
    Click here to enlarge
    This map defines the Air/Fuel Ratio target correction applied by the Procede. This is accomplished by applying a bias voltage to the wideband o2 sensors. Rev2a and Rev2b hardware have slightly different bias circuitry which results in different adjustment ranges. The original Rev2a boards are able to adjust AFR +/-2 points. Whereas the newer Rev2b is able to adjust within a much wider +/- 3 point range. A map value of 50% results in no AFR correction (ie, the standard AFR value is targeted). Values higher than 50% will enlean the AFR target. Values lower than 50% will enrich the target. Inputting a value of 0% will lower the nominal AFR target by 2-3 points (depending on board revision). Inputting a value of 100% will increase the nominal AFR target by 2-3 points. Typically, you will find yourself only inputting values between 0 and 44% since the stock n54 tune is leaner (and rarely richer) than desirable. The only time you may want to use values slightly higher than 50% is during cruise conditions where it is possible to run slightly leaner with no drivability side-effects. Since this table only offsets the stock AFR target, it’s important to know the factory AFR target during various conditions. This is where datalogging (CAN AFR bank 1 and 2, in particular) will help you. However, the default mapping values are close to ideal in most conditions. So, for the vast majority of users, there is little benefit to be gained from custom tuning them.

    The Y-axis represents RPM. The X-axis is charge pipe pressure (pre-throttle body) in kiloPascals (kPA). 100kPa is equal to 1 bar (1 atmospheric pressure or 14.5psi) at sea level (0psi). 200kPa is equal to 2 bar of pressure (1 bar, or 14.5psi of boost) The active cell is highlighted when the User Software is connected to the Procede. Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.



    IGNITION ADVANCE MAPPING

    Ignition Advance Map 1 (Ignition Advance Correction table for Map1)
    Click here to enlarge
    This table establishes the amount of corrective ignition advance/retard applied by the Procede. A negative number indicates ignition retard. A positive number indicates ignition advance. This table is for advanced users only as mis-adjustment can result in severe detonation and possible engine damage. As with the Fuel Map, it is important to keep transitions between cells reasonably smooth without any big step changes. For added safety, maximum advance is limited to +2 degrees.

    The Y-axis represents RPM. The X-axis is charge pipe pressure (pre-throttle body) in kiloPascals (kPA). 100kPa is equal to 1 bar (1 atmospheric pressure or 14.5psi) at sea level (0psi). 200kPa is equal to 2 bar of pressure (1 bar, or 14.5psi of boost) The active cell is highlighted when the User Software is connected to the Procede. Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.

    Ignition Advance Map 2 (Ignition Advance Correction table for Map2)
    Same as above but for Map 2.

    IAT Ignition Map 1 (IAT Ignition Compensation for both Map1 and Map2)
    Click here to enlarge
    This map defines the effect Intake Air Temp (IAT) has on ignition correction. While it is useful to reduce timing during periods of high IAT, the factory DME already does this. So it is typically unnecessary to implement this through the Procede. Please note that this this map influences boost Map1 and Map2. IAT Ignition Map 2 does something else altogether and should not be adjusted by the user.


    BOOST CONTROL MAPPING

    Boost Target (0%)
    Click here to enlarge
    This table dictates the boost curve when Boost level (Start Boost %) is set to 0%. The X axis is RPM.

    Boost Target (100%)
    Click here to enlarge
    This table dictates the boost curve when Boost level (Start Boost %) is set to 100%. The X axis is RPM.

    Unlike the Map1/Map2 Fuel and Ignition maps, both Boost Maps work together at all times. Each map defines the max and min boost curve range. So you run a Start Boost % value of 0%, the Procede will target the boost curve defined in Boost Map 1. Likewise, if you run a Start Boost % value of 100%, the Procede will target the boost curve defined in Boost Map 2. And running a value of 50% will target a boost curve in the middle of both Boost Maps. It is VERY important to recognize this relationship before adjusting either map as a misunderstanding will result in an overboost! Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.

    IAT Boost Target Comp (IAT Boost Correction for Map1)
    Click here to enlarge
    This map defines the effect Intake Air Temp (IAT) has on the boost target. It is desirable to reduce the boost target when IAT climbs high (to avoid detonation) or drops exceptionally low (to avoid excessive engine load/fuel demand). A cell value of “0” indicates no correction. A cell value of “-100” indicates a -4psi reduction in boost target. In other words, for each -25 increment, boost target will be reduced by 1psi. The X axis is intake air temperature. Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.

    Wastegate DC (Boost Control Duty Cycle Map for Map1 and Map2)
    Click here to enlarge
    This table defines the amount of “base” boost control solenoid duty cycle (DC) % as a function of RPM and Boost Target (Boost Set Point). As with the Open Loop Fuel Map, an additional closed loop correction on top of this base value. You can monitor this correction by logging Boost Control Correction. If this correction is a negative value, the value in the Wastegate DC table is too high and the Procede’s closed loop boost control system is responding to an overboost condition and reducing wastegate DC% to compensate. If this correction is positive, the Procede’s closed loop boost control system is responding to an underboost and increasing wastegate DC% to compensate. The values in this table should be adjusted to achieve Boost Control Corrections close to 0%. Boost Control Correction has an authority range of +/- 12.5% DC. It’s also important to understand that the stock turbochargers will often not be able to achieve the boost control target at high RPM due to compressor limitations. So it’s normal to see very positive corrections at high RPM. These hardware limited corrections cannot be “tuned” out by adjusting the Wastegate DC table. Because of this, it is best to concentrate on the 3000-5500rpm range. This is NOT the case with upgraded turbos that do not share any such hardware limitations and can easily hit the boost target at higher engine speeds. In such applications, one will want to concentrate on the 3000-7000rpm range. The Boost Control Gain user adjustable is simply a multiplier to this table. There is no reason to adjust the Boost Control Gain user adjustable once you dial-in this table. Since the Boost Control logic is always running, the changes do not take effect immediately. Instead, you will need to Reset Procede (Comms->Reset Procede) after reach change.

    The Y-axis represents RPM. The X-axis is Boot Control Target/Set Point in kiloPascals (kPA). 100kPa is equal to 1 bar (1 atmospheric pressure or 14.5psi) at sea level (0psi). 200kPa is equal to 2 bar of pressure (1 bar, or 14.5psi of boost) The active cell is highlighted when the User Software is connected to the Procede.

    Boost Control PID Settings
    Click here to enlarge
    Set-up -> Digital Outputs -> Boost Control
    PID stands for Proportional, Integral and Derivative. They are the three error correction components in any PID system. They control how the computer responds to an error. In this case, the error is deviation from the boost target at any given time. These three settings will determine how quickly the Procede "zeros in" on the boost target. If any of of these values is improperly set, you will see many different kinds of boost controls anomalies (oscillation, slow response, overshoot, undershoot, etc,.) For more info on the these three components, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
    In most cases, you will never need to adjust these settings. But changing them to best suit the mechanical characteristics of your engine can improve boost response and control accuracy greatly. Usually, you will only adjust the P (proportional) component by increasing until the point just before you start to see boost oscillation. If this value is too high, you will see erratic/bouncy boost control. If this value is set too low, you will see slow boost rise. The default values are conservative and err towards the "slow rise" side of the spectrum. When adjusting this value, it is best to do it in small 0.1 increments. Since the PID system is always running, the changes do not take effect immediately. Instead, you will need to Reset Procede (Comms->Reset Procede) after reach change.

    METHANOL INJECTION MAPPING

    Methanol Injector DC (Methanol Injection Duty Cycle Map)
    Click here to enlarge
    This table defines the duty cycle of the PWM methanol solenoid which operates at 25Hz. 0% results in the solenoid being completely closed. 100% results in it being completely open. 50% is half open and half closed (ie, open and closed in even intervales, 25 times a second). Due to mechanical inefficiencies, the min DC% required to open the solenoid is approximately 10%. Actual methanol flow (cc/min) will remain linear from that point onwards, up to approx 90% at which point the injector stay full open (static). This exceptional linearity gives the PWM meth system the very wide dynamic range that you will appreciate when it comes to fine tuning.

    The Y-axis represents RPM. The X-axis is charge pipe pressure (pre-throttle body) in kiloPascals (kPA). 100kPa is equal to 1 bar (1 atmospheric pressure or 14.5psi) at sea level (0psi). 200kPa is equal to 2 bar of pressure (1 bar, or 14.5psi of boost) The active cell is highlighted when the User Software is connected to the Procede. Changes to this table can be made "on the fly" with the engine running. No Procede resetting necessary.

    IAT Methanol DC Comp (Methanol Injection Duty Cycle Map)
    Click here to enlarge
    This table adjusts the Methanol Injector DC output (as defined in th Methanol Injector DC map) with respect to Intake Air Temperature. This the adjustable range is -100 to +100%. With 0% being no change to the output. -100% basically disables methanol flow whereas +100% essentially doubles it (up to the 100% max duty cycle limit of course). With this table, you can make it so that the Procede increases methanol flow when more charge cooling is needed (extra hot conditions) and, conversely, decreases methanol flow when less charge cooling is needed (in extra cold conditions). Those who operate their engines in dynamic environments can benefit greatly from this feature.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Way over my head
    JB4LIFE

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    way awesome man! say hello to serious custom mapping for users who have a tuner, or know how to tune themselves. i read through the whole post, some parts are above me sure but its all logical and coherent. i cant wait because that's around the time of the new actuators, huh? lol, but i can already see some members posting 'oh, i thought the procede was all about auto-tuning ... the jb4 had custom tuning before the v5!' right?
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

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    Isn't this the same thing that JB4 does? Procede is moving up in the world. Congrats on your new discovery
    Click here to enlarge

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    Good read. Curious to see who takes control of it.. I cant see making any more power as he claims though. he has still set hard limitations, but who knows, i could be wrong

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    This is interesting, and thanks for posting it here. I haven't been to Shivpost since I was banned last year.

    I see this as potentially useful to maybe 5% of piggyback users. Nonetheless, I am sure that 95% of proCEDE users will proclaim it's greatness--despite never touching the values or seeing any change in their performance even if they do.

    One problem I have with this 'basic' form of 'pro' tuning on our platform is the great variance our engines have in fuel/boost/ignition needs from gear to gear. For instance, trying to get rid of heavy-throttle bog under third gear will likely cause unintended problems in first and second. Along these same lines, meth fuel corrections are based off of boost and rpm only. The same usability concern goes for most of the other variables too.

    My biggest question is whether the changes and result are masked on the monitoring-end of the piggyback? For instance, are the "base" masks for afr correction still in effect when the user picks and additive, or are the masks retargetted? Retargetting masks can be complex because the change in values isn't linear with the changed target, which seems like a few more calculations than Shiv or his programmers may be trusted with. If the masks remain stock, then the user-changes will be incredibly short-lived as the ECU will simply re-correct.

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    I guess since he can't get it right himself he is going to give his customers a shot at it? Click here to enlarge

    Kidding of course! But the Haltech layered table tuning interface is pretty clunky and overly complicated. And on top of that much of what you would need to change isn't even there. Or maybe doesn't exist? For example PID constants by RPM and EGT. If he took the next logical step with this he would boil everything down to simple usable parameters the average customer can easily work with. Boost, timing, and fuel by RPM. Scaling adjustments for fuel pressure and PID. Not just dump Haltech's overcomplicated table system on poor users.

    I definitely prefer our custom tuning approach.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Heres the other question.

    You can add or pull your own fuel. Yet you are STILL capped by the OEM fuel system and its weaknesses, which the tune now fully exploits anyway. Shiv doesnt have a fuel solution yet, which is the only thing which really prevents this software from being used at its true potential.


    Yes Shiv can come on here and say he has something in the works for fueling, but AFAIK he made a phone call to a certain shop on here that is doing a fuel system asking 'how are you guys doing it'...and they refused to give any hints.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I guess since he can't get it right himself he is going to give his customers a shot at it? Click here to enlarge
    That's the first thing I thought too! After I typed it out though, I didn't post it because I honestly have no idea whether there are lots of proCEDE users still having misfire and various other problems.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If he took the next logical step with this he would boil everything down to simple usable parameters the average customer can easily work with.
    What I like about your interface is that it encourages a universal approach to the adjustments (although the 1st and 2nd gear boost limit also allow the obvious gear-dependent benefit of traction).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I guess since he can't get it right himself he is going to give his customers a shot at it? Click here to enlarge

    Kidding of course! But the Haltech layered table tuning interface is pretty clunky and overly complicated. And on top of that much of what you would need to change isn't even there. Or maybe doesn't exist? For example PID constants by RPM and EGT. If he took the next logical step with this he would boil everything down to simple usable parameters the average customer can easily work with. Boost, timing, and fuel by RPM. Scaling adjustments for fuel pressure and PID. Not just dump Haltech's overcomplicated table system on poor users.

    I definitely prefer our custom tuning approach.
    You could also improve on that interface...here's a couple thoughts:

    1) Datalogging - really hard to read with just dual y-axis...adding multiple y-axis and user-adjustable scaling would solve it

    2) Fuel cells by RPM - you should really have the user enter in the desired AFR targets and have the firmware calcuate the desired corrections/fueling...0-50 for fuel really doesn't mean anything in the general tuning world and is non-intuitive to anyone without a JB4 readme file Click here to enlarge

    3) CPS offset - really shouldn't be there...it should be Timing target where users enter the desired timing target and your firmware/software calculates the appropriate CPS offset under the covers to achieve the desired timing advance/retard...

    In summary, software can always be improved upon, otherwise I wouldn't have my job today Click here to enlarge lol
    Click here to enlarge

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    On the data logging I've always preferred having everything viewable on one axis. Since I'm normally the one reading these logs there isn't much motivation to change that. Click here to enlarge But it's just a CSV file. You can open it in any viewer you want. Probably even the Haltech one. X scaling has always been adjustable on the JB4.

    On 2 & 3 we've mapped out curves based on boost, baro, IAT, throttle, time under boost, rate of RPM change, gear, and many other factors. You are making scaling adjustments to our curves by RPM. If we were to have you enter "absolute" values here you would need to also modify the 10 tables behind each one. Defeats the purpose of keeping it simple.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
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    way awesome man! say hello to serious custom mapping for users who have a tuner, or know how to tune themselves. i read through the whole post, some parts are above me sure but its all logical and coherent. i cant wait because that's around the time of the new actuators, huh? lol, but i can already see some members posting 'oh, i thought the procede was all about auto-tuning ... the jb4 had custom tuning before the v5!' right?
    So they finally opened it up?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
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    3) CPS offset - really shouldn't be there...it should be Timing target where users enter the desired timing target and your firmware/software calculates the appropriate CPS offset under the covers to achieve the desired timing advance/retard...
    Disagree with this since entering a timing target that is achieved by cps offset isn't really timing control. If it is there as CPS offset, perfect, call it what it is.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    On the data logging I've always preferred having everything viewable on one axis. Since I'm normally the one reading these logs there isn't much motivation to change that. Click here to enlarge But it's just a CSV file. You can open it in any viewer you want. Probably even the Haltech one. X scaling has always been adjustable on the JB4.
    well, it may be a matter of choice then...i prefer multiple y-axis scaled the way I'd like Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    On 2 & 3 we've mapped out curves based on boost, baro, IAT, throttle, time under boost, rate of RPM change, gear, and many other factors. You are making scaling adjustments to our curves by RPM. If we were to have you enter "absolute" values here you would need to also modify the 10 tables behind each one. Defeats the purpose of keeping it simple.
    Sure you've mapped them that way but that's exactly what I'm saying...hide all that away from the user and not show 0-50, show them AFR they'd "like" to achieve and on the backend when uploading firmware to the JB just auto-adjust what you need to adjust those 10 or whatever number of tables you need to achieve that...that'd be my choice...

    In terms of calling CPS offset "timing" control, i totally agree, it shouldn't be renamed and maybe I wasn't clear...
    Click here to enlarge

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    I have thought of doing that with the AFR. Having them enter a target ratio instead of a scaling number. And then explaining their target ratio will vary a bit based on IAT, gear, boost, etc.

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    I wonder how much this is going to cost
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
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    I wonder how much this is going to cost
    lol. Im betting $150 base fee, $30 monthly subscription fee for the rights, plus a $1.50 fee for every change made Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    lol. Im betting $150 base fee, $30 monthly subscription fee for the rights, plus a $1.50 fee for every change made Click here to enlarge
    Plus instant deduction directly from your bank account every time Shiv needs to fill the Gallardo up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    lol. Im betting $150 base fee, $30 monthly subscription fee for the rights, plus a $1.50 fee for every change made Click here to enlarge
    Maybe 150 if your already a procede v5 user, I think it's going to be around 400 and perhaps your non dominant arm
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Plus instant deduction directly from your bank account every time Shiv needs to fill the Gallardo up.
    Click here to enlarge he burns a lot of fuel up peddling n54's to make his tune look good
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
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    I wonder how much this is going to cost
    if i have to pay for this and not godfather in i will buy the jb4 the next day
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
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    if i have to pay for this and not godfather in i will buy the jb4 the next day
    lol

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    HWIN software is free on Haltech's site so I'm sure the HWIN interface will be free too. Who would pay for it?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    HWIN software is free on Haltech's site so I'm sure the HWIN interface will be free too. Who would pay for it?
    It is shiv were talking about
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is shiv were talking about
    Hahah, true, he might start charging by the megabyte.

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