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  1. #51
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    You either gain or lose power. Not doing anything is like injecting nothing. So, if it truly "doesn't lose" and "doesn't gain" then what are they doing? And no, the trade offs are hardly worth it.


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    I don't know about these stacks, but we did some extensive work on S85 intakes and found a definite increase in power from increasing airbox volume.
    Neel Vasavada
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    Im not talking about the stacks. Im talking about all the other glitzy $#@!. The mounts for the methanol and the baseplate, useless, trust me. You can make the single nozzle injection work just fine without all the art and cost. Im sure the manufacturer will say "those are needed because of bla bla bla" no they arent, its glitz.

  4. #54
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    Has anyone ever done a Water/Meth or Meth injection for a N/A E92 M3 before?? But using the OEM Airbox / Plenum???
    I'm interested, $#@! the cool looks. I just wanna gain some power! lol

    This is all for show. I am sure they could have found a setup that just used injection and the OEM hardware... and easily shown gains w/o all the downsides of no filter etc...

  5. #55
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    I like how the carbon madusa looking stacks look better. but the aluminum ones sound better. And you would need to run a ram air hood to make use of these like this
    Click here to enlarge

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    why is everyone knocking it for the fact that it might be for looks?? Everyone does different builds for different reasons so for the guy building a show car that doesnt want the eye candy of a s/c whats wrong with this? dont knock it cuz its not for you!! I have the k&n typhone in my m6 because i like seeing the tubes with the cones under the hood and i like the sound, everyone says how its sucks cuz of the heat soak and that some of the closed box systems are better and make more power but for me 5+10 hp in either direction dont make a difference and i prefer the eye candy

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    why is everyone knocking it for the fact that it might be for looks?? Everyone does different builds for different reasons so for the guy building a show car that doesnt want the eye candy of a s/c whats wrong with this? dont knock it cuz its not for you!! I have the k&n typhone in my m6 because i like seeing the tubes with the cones under the hood and i like the sound, everyone says how its sucks cuz of the heat soak and that some of the closed box systems are better and make more power but for me 5+10 hp in either direction dont make a difference and i prefer the eye candy
    not knocking that its for looks, in fact thats what im saying it is for, just looks. And im not letting anyone try to convince me that $#@! has function. Its fine if its just for looks, just be aware that is what youre paying for, a bunch of very intricately machined parts that look really good... Hence why i suspect an outrageous price.

    I prefer the carbon medusa TB, THOSE ARE SEX.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    This is not the first time I've come in contact with these guys:

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    Yes, that's nitrous.
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  9. #59
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    Yummm..... tasty mixture...

  10. #60
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    Wow I would not want to be the one to pop those solenoids on.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stega Click here to enlarge
    Not sure... the guy responded on the M3post thread and claimed an estimated 5-25 and said nothing more, I think they have no idea.
    Sounds like they are guessing.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Im not talking about the stacks. Im talking about all the other glitzy $#@!. The mounts for the methanol and the baseplate, useless, trust me. You can make the single nozzle injection work just fine without all the art and cost. Im sure the manufacturer will say "those are needed because of bla bla bla" no they arent, its glitz.
    Remember, these guys are about bling. Nothing wrong with that though but we want to hear more about the performance figures or else this crap is useless.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stega Click here to enlarge
    Has anyone ever done a Water/Meth or Meth injection for a N/A E92 M3 before?? But using the OEM Airbox / Plenum???
    I'm interested, $#@! the cool looks. I just wanna gain some power! lol

    This is all for show. I am sure they could have found a setup that just used injection and the OEM hardware... and easily shown gains w/o all the downsides of no filter etc...
    RPI played around with meth injection on S85's and really didn't get any good gains. They ended up giving up on it.

    Meth with NA motor is tough especially if you don't have a great tuner who will specifically map for it.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    why is everyone knocking it for the fact that it might be for looks?? Everyone does different builds for different reasons so for the guy building a show car that doesnt want the eye candy of a s/c whats wrong with this? dont knock it cuz its not for you!! I have the k&n typhone in my m6 because i like seeing the tubes with the cones under the hood and i like the sound, everyone says how its sucks cuz of the heat soak and that some of the closed box systems are better and make more power but for me 5+10 hp in either direction dont make a difference and i prefer the eye candy
    Because if it is for looks, adds no power, and increases chance of an engine failure it just isn't worth it.

  15. #65
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    Now this will have a hell of a performance gain.. when the nitrous is active.

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Now this will have a hell of a performance gain.. when the nitrous is active.
    Like you said before, it's more for looks. I don't like some of what they are doing in those pictures....but it's certainly got a good "bling" factor.
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  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like they just make numbers up.
    is more like it


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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Keep in mind guys the OEM Plenum already has velocity stacks... So all this does is remove the cover and adds meth. So really all for looks.
    See picture:Click here to enlarge

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stega Click here to enlarge
    Keep in mind guys the OEM Plenum already has velocity stacks... So all this does is remove the cover and adds meth. So really all for looks.
    See picture:Click here to enlarge
    Yep but they are fed a specific air volume through the air box. This removes all that and changes the entire intake system BMW created which I think BMW knew what they were doing.

  20. #70
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    Sticky - think BMW knew what they were doing? If so, I agree.


  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - think BMW knew what they were doing? If so, I agree.
    On the CSL we saw the airbox changes BMW made. On the GTS, they didn't go Alpha-N and didn't radically change the airbox which leads me to believe the intake setup is pretty darn good. That is not to say an Alpha-N change wouldn't improve it but BMW chose not to do it.

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    Thanks for all the comments, guys. At the very least, it's got people talking Click here to enlarge

    Regarding the stacks themselves, this system was designed with the intent of not only incorporating the water-meth mixture into our aluminum velocity stacks, but also to one-up the aesthetic quality of our S54 stack system (with the nitrous injectors). Sure, you could rig some much easier system that would look a lot more simple and function equally well, but then where is the originality? Where's the fun in making the exact same thing that's already been done? Is doing something a bit unique and out-of-the-mold frowned upon these days? If that's so, we'd better go buy an E46, slap some CSL reps on it and call it a day.

    Previous dyno figures (when running just the stacks themselves with our tune designed for these stacks) have seen gains in the 15-20hp range. With the inclusion of the water-meth, well, we haven't put that on the dyno yet, but we will. We didn't design this system to be a maximization of dollars per horsepower, either; we designed it for a modest bump in power, a unique sound that the OEM airbox assembly can't match, and a unique aesthetic that's guaranteed to get attention. Oh, and Powerchip is definitely not doing this tune for us; it's of our own creation.

    In terms of incorporating the water-meth into an N/A system, it's all about the knock control. The E9x M3's adaptive knock control uses an advanced form that measures ionic resistance of the gap in the spark plug inside the cylinder. This system originated with the E60 M5, and when it came out it was the most advanced form of knock control this side of F1.

    While our owner/founder was taking his E60 M5 introduction class as part of his factory training, he theorized that the advanced knock control would continue to advance timing and make power, so long as the octane rating was high enough. This was the main reason behind our decision to run water-meth on the N/A S65B40 (which is based off the E60 M5's S85B50). We feel that as long as the adaptive knock control can keep pushing timing with a higher octane from the water-meth, we'll keep trying to pull power from that. In the years since that factory training, we've kept working with water-meth on N/A systems to see if his theorizing was correct, and we haven't hit any trip-ups as of now.

    Obviously, risks are inherent. We understand that.

    Also, in the event a nozzle clogs or stops functioning, BMW's adaptive knock control works on a per-cylinder basis, so it will be able to pull the timing on the affected cylinder, but will slowly ease back the other cylinders to keep the engine smooth and safe. The advantage of the ionic control in the adaptive knock system is the speed at which the system can react. So, if the system clogs or stalls, not only will the aftermarket Aquamist system pick up on the lack of flow and throw a message to the driver, but the E90 itself will also automatically pull timing before any damage is done. This is the reason why our tune will not be specifically made for water-meth, either. If it were, the timing would be constantly advanced because there would always be water-meth to supply it. That's when something could go wrong, and when timing isn't retarded, things go very very badly. It's better to leave it up to the adaptive knock control than the tune. As long as we can continue to advance timing and add power without going the forced induction route, we'll do it. Plus, FI would just take away from the beautiful sound of exposed velocity stacks.

    We're just taking advantage of this system that's already been made near-perfect by BMW to make the power we're looking for.

    It's not a system that falls into either form OR function; it actually functions, and it doesn't look like anything else out there currently. It has achieved exactly what we set out to achieve with it.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    On the CSL we saw the airbox changes BMW made. On the GTS, they didn't go Alpha-N and didn't radically change the airbox which leads me to believe the intake setup is pretty darn good. That is not to say an Alpha-N change wouldn't improve it but BMW chose not to do it.
    Yeah alpha-n itself is just reserved for a car without a MAF sensor. 99.99999% of the time a factory will ship with a MAF sensor, those cars with them just drive better - its inherent to the technology. The CSL intake is as good as it gets. Running the stacks open is silly and just adds risk. You also suck in heat that would otherwise be shielded with a plenum.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
    Previous dyno figures (when running just the stacks themselves with our tune designed for these stacks) have seen gains in the 15-20hp range. With the inclusion of the water-meth, well, we haven't put that on the dyno yet, but we will. We didn't design this system to be a maximization of dollars per horsepower, either; we designed it for a modest bump in power, a unique sound that the OEM airbox assembly can't match, and a unique aesthetic that's guaranteed to get attention. Oh, and Powerchip is definitely not doing this tune for us; it's of our own creation.
    Would we be able to see these dyno figures?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
    While our owner/founder was taking his E60 M5 introduction class as part of his factory training, he theorized that the advanced knock control would continue to advance timing and make power, so long as the octane rating was high enough. This was the main reason behind our decision to run water-meth on the N/A S65B40 (which is based off the E60 M5's S85B50). We feel that as long as the adaptive knock control can keep pushing timing with a higher octane from the water-meth, we'll keep trying to pull power from that. In the years since that factory training, we've kept working with water-meth on N/A systems to see if his theorizing was correct, and we haven't hit any trip-ups as of now.
    The ECU will adjust for octane but only so much. A real custom race tune be necessary to maximize it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
    Regarding the stacks themselves, this system was designed with the intent of not only incorporating the water-meth mixture into our aluminum velocity stacks, but also to one-up the aesthetic quality of our S54 stack system (with the nitrous injectors). Sure, you could rig some much easier system that would look a lot more simple and function equally well, but then where is the originality? Where's the fun in making the exact same thing that's already been done? Is doing something a bit unique and out-of-the-mold frowned upon these days? If that's so, we'd better go buy an E46, slap some CSL reps on it and call it a day.
    Understood and appreciated. Very nice to see someone doing something different.

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah alpha-n itself is just reserved for a car without a MAF sensor. 99.99999% of the time a factory will ship with a MAF sensor, those cars with them just drive better - its inherent to the technology. The CSL intake is as good as it gets. Running the stacks open is silly and just adds risk. You also suck in heat that would otherwise be shielded with a plenum.
    The E92 M3 has no MAF sensor.

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