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  1. #51
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    Well the S54 Getrag is the same transmission with and without the SMG, its all modular. Isn't there an SMG computer? I forget, its been a while. Perhaps the I/O from the ECU to SMG controller could work from a standalone.


  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Well the S54 Getrag is the same transmission with and without the SMG, its all modular. Isn't there an SMG computer? I forget, its been a while. Perhaps the I/O from the ECU to SMG controller could work from a standalone.
    You're right. When I did the conversion I was able to use the same gearbox. There is one small difference though, the SMG gearbox doesn't have detents for the gearshift, ie no gearshift centering function. I had to have the bellhousing machined to accept the parts.

    The issue with using the SMG computer with a standalone is that it gets most of its operating information from the CAN bus. Even if you had a standalone capable of sending the SMG module messages over CAN, you would still need to know exactly what the SMG module is expecting to see.

    I'm not saying it is impossible. Just very time consuming.

  3. #53
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    That's sounds like a misson that probably isn't worth it. Do you have any pics of
    your build? Nissan engine correct?

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by metrik Click here to enlarge
    You're right. When I did the conversion I was able to use the same gearbox. There is one small difference though, the SMG gearbox doesn't have detents for the gearshift, ie no gearshift centering function. I had to have the bellhousing machined to accept the parts.

    The issue with using the SMG computer with a standalone is that it gets most of its operating information from the CAN bus. Even if you had a standalone capable of sending the SMG module messages over CAN, you would still need to know exactly what the SMG module is expecting to see.

    I'm not saying it is impossible. Just very time consuming.
    True - it'd be nice if you could find the data stream. Of course the ECU would then need to have existing functions waiting to be popped out via the stream, but yeah. Would be neat.


  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by metrik Click here to enlarge
    You're right. When I did the conversion I was able to use the same gearbox. There is one small difference though, the SMG gearbox doesn't have detents for the gearshift, ie no gearshift centering function. I had to have the bellhousing machined to accept the parts.

    The issue with using the SMG computer with a standalone is that it gets most of its operating information from the CAN bus. Even if you had a standalone capable of sending the SMG module messages over CAN, you would still need to know exactly what the SMG module is expecting to see.

    I'm not saying it is impossible. Just very time consuming.
    Freaking great post.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by metrik Click here to enlarge
    Ok I want to talk about something fun!

    I used to have an e46 m3 with the SMG transmission. I was bored, so I converted it to a manual myself (what a pain that was).

    My current car is an e30 m3 with a Nissan SR20det. I was out in the garage the other day, and saw all my old SMG parts sitting there, and I thought, wouldn't it be fun to have an SMG e30?

    Let's say I got the hardware all sorted out. Fit the car with a pressure accumulator, clutch slave, and hydraulic gear shift. Does motec, pectel, anybody have a system capable of running an SMG transmission? In my application, it does not need to interface with CAN or any other vehicle systems, although it would be nice to be able to rev match shifts automatically.
    That would be amazing but there is a reason nobody has done it which you and Neel already seem to know.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Not really - see, Neel went 2/5's of the way there. I want to see those last 3 fifths.
    You have to pay for those other 3/5...that's just how it works.

    Heck, in the business you are in, that's EXACTLY how it works. Does the company you work for show it's wiring openly on the internet? What if you were doing work for the US Gov't under contract, and you showed pictures of that on the internet. Do you think the contract holder (Person assigned to manage the contract within the US Gov't) would be happy about that?

    Neel sells intellectual property as much as he sells hardware; the former he's been very generous with by posting in this forum.

    I usually just relax and enjoy the free info.
    Rep Points > Posts since 2010

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    You have to pay for those other 3/5...that's just how it works.

    Heck, in the business you are in, that's EXACTLY how it works. Does the company you work for show it's wiring openly on the internet? What if you were doing work for the US Gov't under contract, and you showed pictures of that on the internet. Do you think the contract holder (Person assigned to manage the contract within the US Gov't) would be happy about that?

    Neel sells intellectual property as much as he sells hardware; the former he's been very generous with by posting in this forum.

    I usually just relax and enjoy the free info.
    I strongly agree with your statement, and I have never seen anyone say it better.

    Batta, you're right. I'll post a build thread in a few weeks here.

  9. #59
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    The issue with using the SMG computer with a standalone is that it gets most of its operating information from the CAN bus. Even if you had a standalone capable of sending the SMG module messages over CAN, you would still need to know exactly what the SMG module is expecting to see.
    The CAN stream is fairly straightforward (if not time consuming) to hack. The thing that bugs me most is the control strategy - how many transmissions can you afford to break trying to figure out how to control it properly....

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    I like to see what they do too but so far they only talk about it. Post up some pics or details. Lets see these harnesses and how they're executed and such. I know they're busy but if I had a shop I'd be posting so much crap people would beg me to stop.
    Hi Guys,

    I'm new here and came across this thread and site when searching for some other S54 related stuff. Nobody pointed me here. As you may notice from my sig pic I'm the proud owner of the S54 E36 which recently received a transplant that included a Pectel Sq6 and harness from Neel at Apex to go along with my new motor build. I've been running a stock s54 in my E36 with a factory ECU solution but decided to go with a standalone system for my new motor build. I wanted the flexibility, convenience, logging, traction control options and much more that a standalone solution would offer.

    I researched the internet for months before deciding who to go with. I read lots of horror stories of guys who started standalone on an S54 and had lots of issues then went the other way to one of the factory solutions. They complained of tuners who were non-responsive and "too busy with the pro's". They complained of bugs and challenges getting everything working right. etc. etc. All the more reason to do my homework before deciding which way to go. Part way into my search I came across a number of internet forums dealing with Standalone systems, tuning and the like. I kept coming across posts from this guy "Neel" from Apex. That lead me to his site and his forums there. I realized very quickly that I had not come across anyone in this business who was as giving with information as Neel. He answers dumb questions (I always have lot's of them - and I saw lots from others). His posts are never condescending. He gives far more than he receives and often helps people out with competing systems. It was the amount that he shares on the net that lead me to him. And I think it is the best form of marketing possible.

    So I made contact, and asked all my dumb questions. Neel always responded professionally and educated me a great deal. We had dozens of exchanges over a couple of months. I then went looking for references. Not by asking Neel but by finding people on the web who Neel had worked with. I talked to two who had nothing but great things to say about Neel. So after all this I pulled the trigger and gave Neel the go ahead for my project.

    Except for some miscommunication on the extent of the original order I could not be happier with my decision. My harness was perfect. We dropped the new engine in and hooked up the ECU/harness package in a day and a half. One of my fellow Raven racers and the guy who installed the harness and ECU remarked that if he was doing it again he'd go this route. And this guy knows his stuff. We were fortunate to have Neel there for start up. The car fired up right away. A little fine tuning and we were ready for the dyno which ended up having to happen a day later than planned. Neel was off to another client on the west coast but worked with my engine builder remotely so we could tune the car and be ready to race. We are very happy with the dyno results....

    Off to my first race and I had a minor issue with fuel starvation which we seemed to get on top of at the track. As I was worried about the engine we reached out to Neel who was at a track somewhere else supporting a race team. He was responsive, reviewed my data, gave advice, and worked with us remotely to ensure we had resolved the problem. The internet is a wonderful thing. I went on to finish second at Mid Ohio at the first race for this car with the new setup.

    We have to fix some low RPM issues so as not to pogo stick around the paddock and Neel is the one bugging me to get it done. Not the other way around.

    As a racer there are a couple of key qualities I look for in the people I partner with in this game. Capability, and responsiveness. Unfortunately it is often a rarity to find both in one service provider. Neel and Apex have been an exception to this. Would I do the project the same way again and would I recommend Neel to my friends and associates? You bet.

    Cheers,

    Click here to enlarge
    Mark
    Toronto

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flying Arrow Click here to enlarge
    Hi Guys,

    I'm new here and came across this thread and site when searching for some other S54 related stuff. Nobody pointed me here. As you may notice from my sig pic I'm the proud owner of the S54 E36 which recently received a transplant that included a Pectel Sq6 and harness from Neel at Apex to go along with my new motor build. I've been running a stock s54 in my E36 with a factory ECU solution but decided to go with a standalone system for my new motor build. I wanted the flexibility, convenience, logging, traction control options and much more that a standalone solution would offer.

    I researched the internet for months before deciding who to go with. I read lots of horror stories of guys who started standalone on an S54 and had lots of issues then went the other way to one of the factory solutions. They complained of tuners who were non-responsive and "too busy with the pro's". They complained of bugs and challenges getting everything working right. etc. etc. All the more reason to do my homework before deciding which way to go. Part way into my search I came across a number of internet forums dealing with Standalone systems, tuning and the like. I kept coming across posts from this guy "Neel" from Apex. That lead me to his site and his forums there. I realized very quickly that I had not come across anyone in this business who was as giving with information as Neel. He answers dumb questions (I always have lot's of them - and I saw lots from others). His posts are never condescending. He gives far more than he receives and often helps people out with competing systems. It was the amount that he shares on the net that lead me to him. And I think it is the best form of marketing possible.

    So I made contact, and asked all my dumb questions. Neel always responded professionally and educated me a great deal. We had dozens of exchanges over a couple of months. I then went looking for references. Not by asking Neel but by finding people on the web who Neel had worked with. I talked to two who had nothing but great things to say about Neel. So after all this I pulled the trigger and gave Neel the go ahead for my project.

    Except for some miscommunication on the extent of the original order I could not be happier with my decision. My harness was perfect. We dropped the new engine in and hooked up the ECU/harness package in a day and a half. One of my fellow Raven racers and the guy who installed the harness and ECU remarked that if he was doing it again he'd go this route. And this guy knows his stuff. We were fortunate to have Neel there for start up. The car fired up right away. A little fine tuning and we were ready for the dyno which ended up having to happen a day later than planned. Neel was off to another client on the west coast but worked with my engine builder remotely so we could tune the car and be ready to race. We are very happy with the dyno results....

    Off to my first race and I had a minor issue with fuel starvation which we seemed to get on top of at the track. As I was worried about the engine we reached out to Neel who was at a track somewhere else supporting a race team. He was responsive, reviewed my data, gave advice, and worked with us remotely to ensure we had resolved the problem. The internet is a wonderful thing. I went on to finish second at Mid Ohio at the first race for this car with the new setup.

    We have to fix some low RPM issues so as not to pogo stick around the paddock and Neel is the one bugging me to get it done. Not the other way around.

    As a racer there are a couple of key qualities I look for in the people I partner with in this game. Capability, and responsiveness. Unfortunately it is often a rarity to find both in one service provider. Neel and Apex have been an exception to this. Would I do the project the same way again and would I recommend Neel to my friends and associates? You bet.

    Cheers,

    Click here to enlarge
    Just wanted to say welcome and excellent post. Great to hear feedback from real customers.

    Would we be able to get a separate thread going on the details of your car? If you can not share pics or details due to racing, I understand.

  12. #62
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    Would I do the project the same way again and would I recommend Neel to my friends and associates? You bet.
    Thanks Mark! Very glad to have helped you, sorry for the original harness spec mixup but I'm glad we managed that. And yes, tomorrow we should load those new throttle maps in - they'll work much better with your clutch for around-the-paddock driving.

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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