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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    can't disclose just yet. but its less about providing a product as it is providing information because the info on s54 swap on e30s is hard to come by and he wants to make it more readily available. his focus is mainly engine management; alot of the hardware will be e36 based. ill make a thread when the time is right, but for now i'm interested to see if apex can provide an affordable ECU/harness package as that is key when it comes to e30s.
    I gotcha. When the time is right please pm me as I would like to get the jump on announcing that.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Damn you Neel for making me want to put an S54 into my E28 Click here to enlarge
    Now that would be awesome!!

  3. #28
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    neel - i've got someone who i'm providing a s54 to who's planning on fabbing an inexpensive e30 conversion kit (mounts/headers/etc). both he and i would be interested to hear what total cost on ECU/harness would be for that conversion.
    Give us a call and we'll go over specific options. I know people like to have hard prices, but since we build every system to suit, there are just so many routes to take. Some people want to interface with an AIM dash. Some want MOTEC. Some want to interface with the stock dash. Some want an expansion connector for traction control. Some want to add chassis sensors. Some want a 2 piece harness with a firewall disconnect. Some guys just want a connector so they can build their own harness.

    Every job we do is billed time and materials. This is why I like to talk to people before they order so we make sure they get exactly what they want.

    Thanks,

    Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  4. #29
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    Calibrate tach outputs?
    Output duty cycle & number of pulses per revolution can be different for different tachs. There are a bunch of details like that seem easy enough, but have taken us time to work out.

    I find it interesting that people who haven't done many swap kits comment on how easy it is. We've run into so many - you wouldn't believe how silly it is to get a Porsche 968 ECU to turn OFF. We had to build a relay circuit for our plug & play to properly power down the ECU & fuel circuit. Certain things can backfeed too so you have to be careful to manage output states during power-down. Other examples - anyone can slap an extra sensor on a motor to run a stock water temp gauge, but how about using one factory sensor for both the ECU and the cluster? Sounds easy, just splice right? But some gauges have internal pullup resistors. Some use a pullup in the stock ECU. Every swap kit I can remember had some little surprise waiting. There was a whole mess involving solid state relays and diode protection just to get the alternator to work properly on our Dodge 6.1L Hemi swap kit. How about BMW S65 & S85's - they don't have dipsticks. It wasn't trivial to figure out how to get the stock oil level sensor to work. Want to use the stock gear position sensor on a Suzuki Hayabusa or GSXR1000 engine? Go ahead, plug it into an analog input and have fun figuring it out. We did, it ends up being 1 leg of a voltage divider. The list goes on....

    -Neel

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Output duty cycle & number of pulses per revolution can be different for different tachs. There are a bunch of details like that seem easy enough, but have taken us time to work out.

    I find it interesting that people who haven't done many swap kits comment on how easy it is. We've run into so many - you wouldn't believe how silly it is to get a Porsche 968 ECU to turn OFF. We had to build a relay circuit for our plug & play to properly power down the ECU & fuel circuit. Certain things can backfeed too so you have to be careful to manage output states during power-down. Other examples - anyone can slap an extra sensor on a motor to run a stock water temp gauge, but how about using one factory sensor for both the ECU and the cluster? Sounds easy, just splice right? But some gauges have internal pullup resistors. Some use a pullup in the stock ECU. Every swap kit I can remember had some little surprise waiting. There was a whole mess involving solid state relays and diode protection just to get the alternator to work properly on our Dodge 6.1L Hemi swap kit. How about BMW S65 & S85's - they don't have dipsticks. It wasn't trivial to figure out how to get the stock oil level sensor to work. Want to use the stock gear position sensor on a Suzuki Hayabusa or GSXR1000 engine? Go ahead, plug it into an analog input and have fun figuring it out. We did, it ends up being 1 leg of a voltage divider. The list goes on....

    -Neel
    You might save time by just telling him he is a genius and that you stand in awe of his knowledge. That way we can move on to discussing more details of what you offer customers. Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Output duty cycle & number of pulses per revolution can be different for different tachs. There are a bunch of details like that seem easy enough, but have taken us time to work out.

    I find it interesting that people who haven't done many swap kits comment on how easy it is. We've run into so many - you wouldn't believe how silly it is to get a Porsche 968 ECU to turn OFF. We had to build a relay circuit for our plug & play to properly power down the ECU & fuel circuit. Certain things can backfeed too so you have to be careful to manage output states during power-down. Other examples - anyone can slap an extra sensor on a motor to run a stock water temp gauge, but how about using one factory sensor for both the ECU and the cluster? Sounds easy, just splice right? But some gauges have internal pullup resistors. Some use a pullup in the stock ECU. Every swap kit I can remember had some little surprise waiting. There was a whole mess involving solid state relays and diode protection just to get the alternator to work properly on our Dodge 6.1L Hemi swap kit. How about BMW S65 & S85's - they don't have dipsticks. It wasn't trivial to figure out how to get the stock oil level sensor to work. Want to use the stock gear position sensor on a Suzuki Hayabusa or GSXR1000 engine? Go ahead, plug it into an analog input and have fun figuring it out. We did, it ends up being 1 leg of a voltage divider. The list goes on....

    -Neel
    Neel - of course a standalone can vary pulses out the tachometer output... isn't that trivial? Why is this offered as some sort of burden? Being that standalones aim at being universal, its a requirement that they be able to handle tachometer outputs. 99.9999999% of vehicles just care about how many pulses are output per rotation - IE, BMW 6 cylinders are "3 pulses per revolution". How else would you run a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 cyl engine if you couldn't output different pulses to the tachometer?

    Again with the temperature sensor - if its a bosch, marelli, delphi part you can get the resistance scale. Then all you do is measure the pin to the ECU or cluster for voltage with the sensor unplugged. 99.9999% of factory ECUs will have an internal pull-up resistor with a 1K ohm resistor, therefore with no load on the sensor you will read 5V @ the pin. Same goes with a cluster. This is basic electronics work though.

    Further - your topic of getting ECUs to stop, very common especially on older vehicles that do not have diode relays. Without having a master relay with diode protection you can experience what is commonly referred to as "run on". In fact, when the diodes would bust in some factory installations, you would have the car not turn off on FACTORY cars. Wild yeah? I've worked on a number of cars with this issue - its usually best to look at how their main relay is controlled - its usually caused by the ECU being turned on with a wire from the ignition switch, the ECU controlling the "main relay", and since the main relay is back feeding, even when the ignition switch power goes away, +12v still exists from the relay that the ECU is controlling, and the damned thing won't turn off. Just takes rewiring of the relay.

    Look - I guess this is all a "feature" to a customer, but honestly this is just typical "day in the life" of installing ECUs. Sometimes things will need to be wired to allow the ECU to have power after the key has been removed so that it can restore stepper motor positions or DISA valves, etc. etc etc. Its all part of the game.

    Oh also the 1300 in a Mini is a common swap - the gear position sensor diagrams are very popular. Guys put them in everything from VW's to original Minis - common question is "how do I wire the gear position indicator????". Its actually documented in a manual of mine 1st gear is 560 ohms, 2nd 827, 3rd 1585, 4th 2733, 5th 6800, and 6th 15000. Take that vs supply and you get your voltage outputs.
    Last edited by 5mall5nail5; 06-29-2011 at 10:18 AM.


  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You might save time by just telling him he is a genius and that you stand in awe of his knowledge. That way we can move on to discussing more details of what you offer customers. Click here to enlarge
    Problem is Sticky you don't know any of this so maybe you're blown away. To the rest of the people who do this (as hobby even!) this is like "Yeah, ok, and?"

    I am not saying Neels company doesn't provide a service, but one thing that is important and worth mentioning is that the people who can't do this stuff or won't do it and or don't understand it WILL have issues. That's the case where Neel's company is going to be a necessity. Not because they offer anything totally exclusive to the science of putting a computer in a car, but because the people who paid to have it done will eventually have an issue and won't have any idea wtf to do or where to start. I cannot tell you how many times I have put a standalone into a car reluctantly, knowing that the owner is just going to get in and beat the $#@! out of it and in 10,000 miles when the spark plugs need to be regapped will be calling me "Uh yeah so I dunno what you did but now it misfires..." Really? After 10,000 miles it now misfires? What have you checked? "Nothing yet but I think theres an ECU problem...." Replace the spark plugs - "Omg fixed thanks so much omgomgomgomg" When a real issue occurs it can be a nightmare for the end users wallet and the shops patience and stress levels.


  8. #33
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    Neel - also, I am not bashing you, I am just saying that your audience on your blog might be more diverse than guys who just want swaps done. Technical stuff is good Click here to enlarge

    Also - noticed you got a webshop up, nice. Any info on the MoTeC crimper? Do the MoTeC shells used come from Amp/Tyco? I am trying to find a crimper for a pin and so far have not had much luck. Can you provide details on that crimper?


  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Problem is Sticky you don't know any of this so maybe you're blown away. To the rest of the people who do this (as hobby even!) this is like "Yeah, ok, and?"
    And? That somehow changes what Apex is offering or selling? This may shock you but probably 99% of people here don't do their own ECU work. If I was doing this swap, I would go to Apex and trust that they take care of everything.

    Maybe you aren't wowed but that doesn't change the rest of us would like to learn and see what they have to say.

  10. #35
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    I like to see what they do too but so far they only talk about it. Post up some pics or details. Lets see these harnesses and how they're executed and such. I know they're busy but if I had a shop I'd be posting so much crap people would beg me to stop.


  11. #36
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    Seems there customers don't want there info out there. If that's the case I can uderstand.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    I like to see what they do too but so far they only talk about it. Post up some pics or details. Lets see these harnesses and how they're executed and such. I know they're busy but if I had a shop I'd be posting so much crap people would beg me to stop.
    Jon,

    I know of a tuning business that Neel is a competitor of, and they don't post ANYTHING up on the internet. Neel is a very rare individual in this business.

    I suggest you go to a Grand Am race, and tour the pits to see how many "tuners", and there are a TON of them, openly discuss what they do over the internet.

    Heck, Motec USA runs 2 offices, one on each coast, and people rarely see the harness work they do.

    You make a strange request...
    Rep Points > Posts since 2010

  13. #38
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    Can you provide details on that crimper?
    Its a universal open-barrel crimper, and can be made to work with most open-barrel crimps from 18-24 gauge wire. Its a good tool to have when you don't have the specific crimp jaws for a certain connector.

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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    I am just saying that your audience on your blog might be more diverse than guys who just want swaps done. Technical stuff is good Click here to enlarge
    Okay, I officially don't get you. You did this with the last thread to. When did I say anything about audience diversity? Or are you actually commenting on the diversity of posts on my 1-week old 2 post old blog? I am completely, utterly lost.

    You'd think I'd be used to this - I'm married. To a nice girl from Kansas City. Who's made it 4 decades without being wrong. You know how I know?

    She told me.

    So anyone want to talk about swap projects?

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    I like to see what they do too but so far they only talk about it. Post up some pics or details. Lets see these harnesses and how they're executed and such. I know they're busy but if I had a shop I'd be posting so much crap people would beg me to stop.
    He has posted a bunch of stuff but then you have some people "overseas" who don't want info shared. So, only so much they can show.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I like to see what they do too but so far they only talk about it. Post up some pics or details.
    That's exactly why we've started our new blog!

    I know there aren't a lot of in depth pictures and info on our facebook and old blog, but check these out. Please feel free to ask specific details on projects and if I can share I will! I will look for pictures too.

    http://www.facebook.com/apexspeedtech

    http://www.apexspeedtech.com/cblog/

    There are stories about some of our projects:

    http://www.streetrodderweb.com/features/1006sr_1933_ford_roadster/index.html

    Click here to enlarge

    http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...otorsport.html

    Click here to enlarge

    http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredvehicles/eurp_1008_2008_bmw_335i/apex_speed_technologies.html


    Click here to enlarge

    http://www.sportbikeclub.com/sportbikeclub/Current+Issue/How-Leslie-Porterfield-Became-the-Fastest-Woman-in/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/598191

    Click here to enlarge
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    Jon,

    I know of a tuning business that Neel is a competitor of, and they don't post ANYTHING up on the internet. Neel is a very rare individual in this business.

    I suggest you go to a Grand Am race, and tour the pits to see how many "tuners", and there are a TON of them, openly discuss what they do over the internet.

    Heck, Motec USA runs 2 offices, one on each coast, and people rarely see the harness work they do.

    You make a strange request...
    Not really - see, Neel went 2/5's of the way there. I want to see those last 3 fifths.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Its a universal open-barrel crimper, and can be made to work with most open-barrel crimps from 18-24 gauge wire. Its a good tool to have when you don't have the specific crimp jaws for a certain connector.

    -Neel
    Have you ever crimped Tyco/Amp PN 3-1447221-3 or -4 with it?


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Okay, I officially don't get you. You did this with the last thread to. When did I say anything about audience diversity? Or are you actually commenting on the diversity of posts on my 1-week old 2 post old blog? I am completely, utterly lost.

    You'd think I'd be used to this - I'm married. To a nice girl from Kansas City. Who's made it 4 decades without being wrong. You know how I know?

    She told me.

    So anyone want to talk about swap projects?

    -Neel
    lulz...

    i do,
    i'll put a call in tomorrow to talk about the e30 s54 ecu/harness config we're looking for.

  19. #44
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    Have you ever crimped Tyco/Amp PN 3-1447221-3 or -4 with it?
    That's the Superseals, right? Yeah, I've done these with the Universal tool. You gotta keep in mind its kind of the Swiss Army Knife of crimpers. They're a Tyco/AMP part somewhere that's perfect for it - but this one is good enough to give a solid crimp on both the wire and seal. I'm sure I've used it in the field on those connectors, but in the shop we use the proper dies in a Sargent frame. Its a pretty common die available from Digi-Key, Mouser, Newark, etc....

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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    We have over 500 Tyco/Amp dedicated tools/dies at work... but not the one required for these. These are the same pins MoTeC uses in its 34 position connectors. Yep - superseals. The dies I have found from Tyco are $1500!


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    [QUOTE]We have over 500 Tyco/Amp dedicated tools/dies at work... but not the one required for these. These are the same pins MoTeC uses in its 34 position connectors. Yep - superseals. The dies I have found from Tyco are $1500!

    I don't know what Tyco specs; we use the same ones MOTEC & Zen Tech both use here in the US, and between us there have been thousands of hand-crimps with no issues. We run into this with many of the terminals we use - often times its not easy to source whatever tool the manufacturer specs; in some cases even the manufacturer seems lost on that information. Our harness builders have the experience and knowledge to choose the tool that provides the crimp as needed.

    What's most striking about this though is how you've managed to take the thread I started about swap kits and devolved it into a discussion on the nuances of connector pin crimp tooling. And somehow I got sucked into it.

    Anyone want to talk about swapping an S85 into one of the BMW R-bike motored quad or something....more... fun?

    -Neel
    Last edited by Apex Speed Technology; 06-30-2011 at 01:31 AM.
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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    Ok I want to talk about something fun!

    I used to have an e46 m3 with the SMG transmission. I was bored, so I converted it to a manual myself (what a pain that was).

    My current car is an e30 m3 with a Nissan SR20det. I was out in the garage the other day, and saw all my old SMG parts sitting there, and I thought, wouldn't it be fun to have an SMG e30?

    Let's say I got the hardware all sorted out. Fit the car with a pressure accumulator, clutch slave, and hydraulic gear shift. Does motec, pectel, anybody have a system capable of running an SMG transmission? In my application, it does not need to interface with CAN or any other vehicle systems, although it would be nice to be able to rev match shifts automatically.

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    Does motec, pectel, anybody have a system capable of running an SMG transmission?
    I've never seen anyone offer aftermarket SMG control. Characterizations of transmissions is a lot of work, and most real racing cars use true sequential boxes. Pectel offers an excellent paddle-shift control for sequential x-tract & hewland boxes, but no one has wanted to invest in characterizing the SMG. The problem is, the amount of R&D work involved would costs 10's of thousands of dollars for a transmission that doesn't work as well as a true sequential box.

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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    You are right, it seems like most solutions are complete systems for true sequentials, like Geartronics or the Zytec Motorsport system. I am probably the only person in the world thinking about something like this.

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    I am probably the only person in the world thinking about something like this.
    Naw, we get a request probably 3 times a year. Then you explain that it would be an open ended PO to reverse engineer the actuators and write custom software & firmware and people get cold feet! But I couldn't do it without at least a 100 hour PO just to characterize all the sensors and actuators....

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

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