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Thread: Is GIAC the only flash tune? How does it compare to the piggy backs?

              
   
  1. #26
    BrenM3 is offline 407.7whp N/A
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    When you get your feet wet a bit more in the flash world you will see that that the dimsport genius is VERY limited and a crappy tool all and all compared to whats out there. The basic tables do not cover the masses of what needs to be done to do a good flash tune with no issues. You really got to figure out tables that are not pre-programmed to be able to do a thorough job, not up the boost and bias a fuel signal Click here to enlarge.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
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    When you get your feet wet a bit more in the flash world you will see that that the dimsport genius is VERY limited and a crappy tool all and all compared to whats out there. The basic tables do not cover the masses of what needs to be done to do a good flash tune with no issues. You really got to figure out tables that are not pre-programmed to be able to do a thorough job, not up the boost and bias a fuel signal Click here to enlarge.
    Finding the right tables is always the challenge of the flash tuner. But from what I've seen they have a lot of the bases covered. And someone discriminating could read out an existing flash from the same build and compares difference visually. WINOLS is a nice tool also. There is lots of stuff out there ready to go for someone who's interested. Only a very lazy tuner would resell the same EU flash file as the next tuner.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onesuperboi Click here to enlarge
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    Like this one:

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373134

    Sorry, I've been looking for one post where Shiv commented. It was a GIAC dyno that was recently done, but I can't find it...

    The point is that GIAC is the only tune that I've seen to have dynos that look like that; I've never seen a JB3 or Procede dyno with those type of oscillations.
    are these wavy? Shiv as usual just bashes other tunes. there are no oscillations on GIAC boost whatsoever....

    Attachment 768

    Attachment 769

    Attachment 770

    Click here to enlarge
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
    Click here to enlarge

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    Enrita, ive seen those waves many times before, so you can't simply ignore them. Just because you dynos don't show it, doesnt mean others arnt having the issues.

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    What issue? Nobody is having Boost oscillations issues on the street otherwise people would have complained. Everybody in know in the forum are extremely happy about smoothness and boost control. Ask everybody with GIAC if they are feeling boost oscillations....
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
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    Just because you can't feel them doesnt mean they arnt there. Giac did say that it was caused by the way certain dynos load the car. Log boost if you want to be sure?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I noticed Turbo Dynamics in the UK abandoned a flash tune and decided to go with the PROcede, why?
    The answer is pretty easy. If someone in Timbuktoo purchases there turbo upgrades they can also receive the Procede in the mail package. At this stage the flash tuners have not released a similar capability.

  9. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    The answer is pretty easy. If someone in Timbuktoo purchases there turbo upgrades they can also receive the Procede in the mail package. At this stage the flash tuners have not released a similar capability.
    The technology exists but simply hasn't been released. For example I've been reading out ECU files with my BT for months. Loading is a similar process.

    In playing around I've found the flashes have much better fuel and timing control. When you look at how the timing system is mapped you immediately realize the futility of CPS, and with fueling piggybacks have always had a hard time mapping say 11.0:1 air/fuel ratios at low RPM. Those limitations disappear with good flash mapping on even the most basic flash. Where the flashes fail miserably is in boost control. Only a fraction of the tables needed to properly tune boost have been found and things get exponentially more complicated if you try to push more than say 14psi. GIAC seems close to figuring it out but as others have pointed out they are not there yet. And there are many elements I don't believe they've even begun to address at the higher boost levels. Then there is the whole map switching/flexability thing... I can see how a hybrid solution might end up making the most sense long term.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
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    Just because you can't feel them doesnt mean they arnt there. Giac did say that it was caused by the way certain dynos load the car. Log boost if you want to be sure?
    I am pretty sure..... have done tons of logs like the one below.
    Click here to enlarge
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    The answer is pretty easy. If someone in Timbuktoo purchases there turbo upgrades they can also receive the Procede in the mail package. At this stage the flash tuners have not released a similar capability.
    Turbo Dynamic has absolutely nothing to do with the tune . They just fix the turbos. E92Fan decided to give the Procede a try for his Stage 2.
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    The technology exists but simply hasn't been released. For example I've been reading out ECU files with my BT for months. Loading is a similar process.
    My tuner has entrusted me with a slave loader that I use on both my vehicles. Saves the trip to him but this opens a completely new door to piracy. I can start selling files at half the price if I wanted to and this is what flash tuners are trying to avoid. The first file available for the N54 motor was the Alpina file. All other tuners used this file for the initial comparo using winols to try figure out the map locations. A lot did not even bother to make changes and just resold it as it was. Then when they tried to go over 14.5psi they hit a brick wall as it was not as simple as increasing the boost, three years later we starting to only now see +14.5psi released. Most of them are again based on a file somewhere around the world that got pirated. I have seen how fast improvements circulate in the chip tuning world first hand.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
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    Turbo Dynamic has absolutely nothing to do with the tune . They just fix the turbos. E92Fan decided to give the Procede a try for his Stage 2.
    I was not implying Turbo Dynamics endorses Procede but they will definately notify potential buyers that are in remote areas that there are maps available from Procede once the mapping exists. Its a win for Procede and a win for Turbo Dynamics as I do not think TD will get flash customers across the world.

  13. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    The answer is pretty easy. If someone in Timbuktoo purchases there turbo upgrades they can also receive the Procede in the mail package. At this stage the flash tuners have not released a similar capability.
    Logical Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3
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    You look like a retarded teenager discovering internet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    My tuner has entrusted me with a slave loader that I use on both my vehicles. Saves the trip to him but this opens a completely new door to piracy. I can start selling files at half the price if I wanted to and this is what flash tuners are trying to avoid. The first file available for the N54 motor was the Alpina file. All other tuners used this file for the initial comparo using winols to try figure out the map locations. A lot did not even bother to make changes and just resold it as it was. Then when they tried to go over 14.5psi they hit a brick wall as it was not as simple as increasing the boost, three years later we starting to only now see +14.5psi released. Most of them are again based on a file somewhere around the world that got pirated. I have seen how fast improvements circulate in the chip tuning world first hand.
    +1. The Alpina map has been floating around for a long time. There are a handful of tuners that really know the files and can do things like take boost into the twenties. And Terry is right, its not a matter of simply pushing things up a scale and phase shifting tables, you need to understand the correlation between each, how one effects the other, and not just upping boost. There's not many tuners I would trust with my car.

    Re: Terry. With you working exclusively on N54 I would certainly recommend the WinOLS solution and doing it right from the start. The Dimsport package is kinda amateur night and they have a terrible failure rate. Good for learning on but not something you want to be supplying with any kind of clear conscience (well, if you plan on using any of their genius hardware anyway). When they die, they REALLY die.

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    Many are using Dimsport with not much problems.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Superlight Click here to enlarge
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    +1. The Alpina map has been floating around for a long time. There are a handful of tuners that really know the files and can do things like take boost into the twenties. And Terry is right, its not a matter of simply pushing things up a scale and phase shifting tables, you need to understand the correlation between each, how one effects the other, and not just upping boost. There's not many tuners I would trust with my car.

    Re: Terry. With you working exclusively on N54 I would certainly recommend the WinOLS solution and doing it right from the start. The Dimsport package is kinda amateur night and they have a terrible failure rate. Good for learning on but not something you want to be supplying with any kind of clear conscience (well, if you plan on using any of their genius hardware anyway). When they die, they REALLY die.
    I went with the Dimsport setup just as an easy way to get my feet wet with it. It does have a full ECU editor similar to WinOLS. Say I were to spend a few hundred hours hunting and pecking and really setup a solid tune, I would be very concerned the next tuner would just read it out, compare, and copy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    I would be very concerned the next tuner would just read it out, compare, and copy.
    That is how it goes in the flash world.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3
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    You look like a retarded teenager discovering internet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    That is how it goes in the flash world.
    It begs the question why spend the 100s of hours... Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    It begs the question why spend the 100s of hours... Click here to enlarge
    Because you make big money if it is good.

    You have to encrypt the ecu, etc. Tuners rip each other off all the time, not just with flashes, with everything.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3
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    You look like a retarded teenager discovering internet.

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    True. Thats the big problem they all have. In most cases when a new tune comes out from a company that CAN actually edit tunes themselves you'll see those same figures spread within a few months to plenty of other, lesser 'tuners'. You could try ECU safe, but most could hack it anyway.

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    That is also why GIAC will never allow to flash at home. Their flashes are encripted and in order to flash you need a key connected to the car VIN code that you get from GIAC after you have received the flash file and that only work with GIAC software licensed to a very few selected agents/dealers.
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
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  22. #46
    BrenM3 is offline 407.7whp N/A
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    You can encrypt it, if you know what you are doing. Click here to enlarge

    GIAC isn't immune either. But they have an interesting way of going about it.

    If someone wants to read your file, and knows how to read your file - odds are they can hack it.

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    Exactly. If someone wrote it, someone will hack it. GIAC, like Bren said above, are far from safe in the methods they use.

    Essentially it comes down to the quality of business. You can place them in 3 categories. 1st for tuners who know what they are doing, real tuners. They develop tunes. 2nd for legitamate companies who purchase quality tunes and sell them on (just like a dealer for a JB3). And the 3rd for $#@! companies who pay cents for $#@! tunes that they don't test, from no-face online repositories, and install them using cheap stolen hardware (also most likely corner to own a pirate copy of winOLS).

    The only problem I see is the falsities commonly associated with the industry, such as the 2nd category tunes above often selling those tunes as developed 'in-house' and the whole 'custom tune' debacle.

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    GIAC's beta stage 2 (it might be out now) seems to be doing very well.
    This is my signature... Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BadBoostedBmwM3 Click here to enlarge
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    GIAC's beta stage 2 (it might be out now) seems to be doing very well.
    Any more details?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3
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    You look like a retarded teenager discovering internet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Any more details?
    I think his name is "Mr.5" on e90posts.com, IIRC. This was like 3 months ago.

    I know someone is running GIAC stage 2 beta tune, and Im pretty sure Mr.5 will know if it is not him.
    This is my signature... Click here to enlarge

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