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  1. #1
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    Dinan product offering update for N63 F10 (550i)

    Hi All,

    I went to an event with Steve Dinan at the local BMW dealership last night and got some interesting info on their plans for the 550.

    N63 Target Power – they haven’t settled on a number yet, but are targeting between 625-700hp and 650-700lb-ft (at the crank)

    Final numbers will be based on them breaking something, which they haven’t done yet, and then backing off the aggressiveness. I confirmed that these are the N63 targets, not S63. As some others have suggested, if these are the targets for one of the traditionally conservative tuners, the power numbers from this engine are going to be huge as the market expands.

    New Products for N63 550i – According to the presentation they will have:

    Cold air intake – will be similar to the 335 intake where they add additional inlets for air in the stock location. Available later this year.

    Intercooler – the flashed a pic of a prototype but didn’t get into much detail. Available later this year.

    Exhaust – sounds like mufflers only - will remove the 180deg turns the exhaust gas goes through the stock muffler. Available later this year.

    LSD - Available later this year.

    Springs – will have suspension systems for 550, but won’t have shocks until at least next year as they couldn’t get any of the major suppliers to build. They will have a system that works with adaptive drive. Springs available later this year.

    Larger compressor &Upgraded internals – forged rods and cam, not many details on the turbo upgrade but suggested these mods will be worth ~100hp. Targeting next year.

    He also talked about dyno numbers for maybe 10mins which I was interested in based on my other thread on this forum about my dyno results. He explained that the numbers they come up with are measured at the crank using an engine dyno, not interpolated from chassis dyno numbers. And that they have supplemental cooling systems for charge air, oil and coolant that insure constant temperatures from test to test. Not sure if that is a better indication of performance of real world driving when compared to a chassis dyno with a big fan, but it contributes to repeatable testing for them. It is also the same method they use for testing enhancements to the DP engines for the Grand Am series.

    I’m not a Dinan fanboy by any means (and these parts will likely be way overpriced), but it was exciting to hear from a tuner that these performance parts are actively being worked on and are on the way and hear the goals and roadmap to get there. Hopefully this is just the beginning of what’s to come for this engine!!!

  2. #2
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alextremo Click here to enlarge
    I’m not a Dinan fanboy by any means (and these parts will likely be way overpriced), but it was exciting to hear from a tuner that these performance parts are actively being worked on and are on the way and hear the goals and roadmap to get there. Hopefully this is just the beginning of what’s to come for this engine!!!
    You don't sound like a fanboy at all, this was an awesome post!

    I'm going to have to sit down and do an interview with Steve Dinan at some point. I would like to discuss dynos with him in particular.

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    Thanks Sticky.

    He definitely has an interesting point of view on the topic and describes it in a very technical way. It almost seems like different goals for using the dyno - measuring incremental changes with variables tightly controlled vs. measuring absolute changes to one car or between cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alextremo Click here to enlarge
    Thanks Sticky.

    He definitely has an interesting point of view on the topic and describes it in a very technical way. It almost seems like different goals for using the dyno - measuring incremental changes with variables tightly controlled vs. measuring absolute changes to one car or between cars.
    So what was Steve Dinan like in person? Sounds like he answered all your questions which is pretty cool. They have a heck of a product offering waiting in the wings.

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    Awesome work!! Thats makes me super excited for the future of my car, while I don't see myself using any of their products it's still good to get confirmation of how sturdy this motor is and it seems I may not have to go into it for quite some time. Forged rods? I suppose that means the stock ones are cast which would be very surprising as these are the same used in the S63 and alpina motors and no one has upgraded them when replacing the pistons.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Forged rods? I suppose that means the stock ones are cast which would be very surprising as these are the same used in the S63 and alpina motors and no one has upgraded them when replacing the pistons.
    It doesn't mean the rods are weak just that Dinan eventually plans to go into the motor. Nobody knows what the limit for the rods is yet and nobody has gotten close to finding it so they seem strong.

    If going bigger turbos like they plan to well over the 700 hp range rods make sense considering the torque these motors put out down low.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It doesn't mean the rods are weak just that Dinan eventually plans to go into the motor. Nobody knows what the limit for the rods is yet and nobody has gotten close to finding so they seem strong.

    If going bigger turbos like they plan to well over the 700 hp range rods make sense considering the torque these motors put out down low.
    What I meant is that it would be surprising if the rods were cast as that is an extremely cheap approach to building a motor of this cost. It wasn't changed in the S63 and that is their performance variant. If they are forged changing them to make 700hp at the crank would be crazy overkill as the cheapest eagle rods(weakest forged rods I know of) are rated to like 150hp each on their I beam. The torque vs hp will not be maintained as power increases because the engine will breathe better. Look at n63 numbers where the torque is significantly higher vs S63 where this is reversed.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So what was Steve Dinan like in person? Sounds like he answered all your questions which is pretty cool. They have a heck of a product offering waiting in the wings.
    He was great with answering questions. He got into quite a bit of technical detail and didn't dismiss any questions, even the stupid ones. You can tell he's an engineer at heart - he describes things in a very methodical way and is very focused on data. I didn't stay till the end (went home to watch the Bruins take it all Click here to enlarge) so didn't meet him 1 on 1, just in a presentation/ Q&A forum.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Awesome work!! Thats makes me super excited for the future of my car, while I don't see myself using any of their products it's still good to get confirmation of how sturdy this motor is and it seems I may not have to go into it for quite some time. Forged rods? I suppose that means the stock ones are cast which would be very surprising as these are the same used in the S63 and alpina motors and no one has upgraded them when replacing the pistons.
    Me too!

    Unfortunately he did confirm that the N63 rods were cast - he actually referred to them as "iron particle board" He said they were strong for cast parts, but that when the turbo upgrade is done they will need to be swapped with forged to handle the power.

    He also confirmed the S63 and B7 are forged.

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    Well that is a shame that on such an expensive motor they would used cast rods. What's worse is I've seen the design of the rods and let's just say beefy isn't the word that comes to mind. I had dismissed that because I assumed they were forged. I planned on building out the motor either way but was hoping to get to 700whp or so before I did.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    What I meant is that it would be surprising if the rods were cast as that is an extremely cheap approach to building a motor of this cost. It wasn't changed in the S63 and that is their performance variant. If they are forged changing them to make 700hp at the crank would be crazy overkill as the cheapest eagle rods(weakest forged rods I know of) are rated to like 150hp each on their I beam. The torque vs hp will not be maintained as power increases because the engine will breathe better. Look at n63 numbers where the torque is significantly higher vs S63 where this is reversed.
    The S63 torque is higher not because of the rods but because of the exhaust cam and twin scroll manifold.

    Also, the N54 has forged rods so if BMW skimped on the N63 that is messed up. Certainly is a possibility though...

  11. #11
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alextremo Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately he did confirm that the N63 rods were cast - he actually referred to them as "iron particle board" He said they were strong for cast parts, but that when the turbo upgrade is done they will need to be swapped with forged to handle the power.

    He also confirmed the S63 and B7 are forged.
    Wow, awesome info!! Thank you.

    Weird that BMW did this to the N63 but at least we know the rods are the place to upgrade in the motor.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Well that is a shame that on such an expensive motor they would used cast rods. What's worse is I've seen the design of the rods and let's just say beefy isn't the word that comes to mind. I had dismissed that because I assumed they were forged. I planned on building out the motor either way but was hoping to get to 700whp or so before I did.
    700 rwhp would require a lot of of changes anyway so at the point you will want new rods for piece of mind.

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