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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    That's some funny $#@!. He just left the beetle on the side of the road.
    I remember that story. I thought that was some of the baller $#@! ever when I first heard it.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They Veyron was built around a set design that they then tried to make hit the top speed record. Gordon Murray commented that for it to need to much power to hit that speed isn't very good aerodynamic engineering and he is right when comparing it against the McLaren F1.
    He never liked the car to begin with, which is why i expect him to downtalk it.

    To hit 260 mph with only 1000 hp requires good aerodynamic design, thats a fact.

    The drag coefficient may be high but it was designed to be stable at very high speeds which has not been done by a production car not even close.

    In my opinion, I have a lot of respect for Gordon; but he is butthurt that the Veyron is able to do what it does.
    Last edited by DBFIU; 06-18-2011 at 10:18 PM.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    He never liked the car to begin with, which is why i expect him to downtalk it.
    He supports his reasons well and I agree with him.

    I made a post a little while back with the whole article where he analyzes the Veyron. I'll try to find it, it's a great read.

    He isn't butthurt at all, the McLaren F1 is a superior achievement to the Veyron.

  4. #29
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    i know this debate is constantly had between mclaren and the veyron and i dont know why, there 2 different cars built for 2 different purposes, the veyron is not over weight its the weight they wanted, the car wasnt intended to be some 2900-3100lb track monster with no ac no door handles no glass windows and no sound deadening material!! The mclaren had nothing in it as far as luxury and you cant even hear your self think in it, for a track day the mclaren all day long but to own and drive on the street it would be a veyron ss hands down for me. It was built to be a ok sports car as far as handling but the worlds BEST luxury cruise missile and that it is!!! think of all the companies that make all these big power cars supras,gtrs,gallardo's, none of them has gone nearly as fast as the veyron. I know they have the power but they dont have the gears and maybe note the aero to do it, at 260+ allot can happen. The car probably makes 7-800whp witch is allot but in the big power game cars like that are a dime a dozen so i do think it does allot with a little. Think of all the 1000bhp builds and them trying to go that fast, hpf m3,gtr's,supras

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He supports his reasons well and I agree with him.

    I made a post a little while back with the whole article where he analyzes the Veyron. I'll try to find it, it's a great read.

    He isn't butthurt at all, the McLaren F1 is a superior achievement to the Veyron.
    Hardly.

    First of all the two cars are in completely different classes and target different customers. Second, there is no way to say which is the superior achievement, this is subjective.

    in my opinion though, gordon can throw out all kinds of technical jargon to try and prove his point. At the end of the day, the Veyron re-defined the word 'supercar'.

    I could honestly say that the F1 is just a very stiff chassis and powerful engine in one package, it has nowhere near the same technology as the Veyron. And with good reason, the F1 was designed in 1994 and the Veyron in 2005. So even that is unfair admittedly.

    But, at the end of the day; Gordon can kick and scream all he wants, the veyron was the first production car to do something no other car has done. You can hate the veyron all you want, but you cant say the F1 is superior to it.

    Like most enthusaists you are a 'back to basics' kind of driver which the F1 ultimately caters to. powerful engine, perfect chassis and suspension, manual transmission in an ultimate package. The Veyron isnt a 'back to basics' type of car which is why all the hate from a lot of enthusiasts. I admire that car because of the technological achievement, Gordon is kidding himself if he thinks the car has no purpose. He has tarnished his reputation in my eyes because of stupid comments he made about the Veyron.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    i know this debate is constantly had between mclaren and the veyron and i dont know why, there 2 different cars built for 2 different purposes, the veyron is not over weight its the weight they wanted, the car wasnt intended to be some 2900-3100lb track monster with no ac no door handles no glass windows and no sound deadening material!! The mclaren had nothing in it as far as luxury and you cant even hear your self think in it, for a track day the mclaren all day long but to own and drive on the street it would be a veyron ss hands down for me. It was built to be a ok sports car as far as handling but the worlds BEST luxury cruise missile and that it is!!! think of all the companies that make all these big power cars supras,gtrs,gallardo's, none of them has gone nearly as fast as the veyron. I know they have the power but they dont have the gears and maybe note the aero to do it, at 260+ allot can happen. The car probably makes 7-800whp witch is allot but in the big power game cars like that are a dime a dozen so i do think it does allot with a little. Think of all the 1000bhp builds and them trying to go that fast, hpf m3,gtr's,supras
    This.
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  7. #32
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    I don't like Murray, but can't forget what he did.

    with 620 HP he reached 380KM/h while others with +1000 HP barely reaches 400 Km/h.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Hardly.

    First of all the two cars are in completely different classes and target different customers. Second, there is no way to say which is the superior achievement, this is subjective.

    in my opinion though, gordon can throw out all kinds of technical jargon to try and prove his point. At the end of the day, the Veyron re-defined the word 'supercar'.

    I could honestly say that the F1 is just a very stiff chassis and powerful engine in one package, it has nowhere near the same technology as the Veyron. And with good reason, the F1 was designed in 1994 and the Veyron in 2005. So even that is unfair admittedly.

    But, at the end of the day; Gordon can kick and scream all he wants, the veyron was the first production car to do something no other car has done. You can hate the veyron all you want, but you cant say the F1 is superior to it.

    Like most enthusaists you are a 'back to basics' kind of driver which the F1 ultimately caters to. powerful engine, perfect chassis and suspension, manual transmission in an ultimate package. The Veyron isnt a 'back to basics' type of car which is why all the hate from a lot of enthusiasts. I admire that car because of the technological achievement, Gordon is kidding himself if he thinks the car has no purpose. He has tarnished his reputation in my eyes because of stupid comments he made about the Veyron.
    The Veyron didn't redefine the word Supercar, the McLaren F1 did and still is the definitive supercar. The Veyron is nothing more than an overpriced boat. 1000 HP and AWD in a heavy car, yawn. Might as well build up a GTR and accomplish the same goals.

    The F1 has design elements that withstood the test of time. The car is far more efficient and was the first to do things everyone is now copying, carbon fiber shell anyone?

    Yes, I can say the F1 is superior to it because from an engineering standpoint it is superior. VW threw a bunch of cash at the Veyron. Gordon Murray designed the car around his goals. Unlike VW they didn't build a car around a design and a target top speed. He never set a target top speed the car simply hit a ridiculous number because it was that damn well engineered.

    I respect him even more because he had the courage to come out and challenge the Veyron when the average person just thinks it is the be all end all. It isn't, nothing more than an overpriced inefficient waste of money and talent. The McLaren F1 defined the game, the Veyron just hit some slightly higher numbers over a decade later.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    i know this debate is constantly had between mclaren and the veyron and i dont know why, there 2 different cars built for 2 different purposes, the veyron is not over weight its the weight they wanted, the car wasnt intended to be some 2900-3100lb track monster with no ac no door handles no glass windows and no sound deadening material!! The mclaren had nothing in it as far as luxury and you cant even hear your self think in it, for a track day the mclaren all day long but to own and drive on the street it would be a veyron ss hands down for me. It was built to be a ok sports car as far as handling but the worlds BEST luxury cruise missile and that it is!!! think of all the companies that make all these big power cars supras,gtrs,gallardo's, none of them has gone nearly as fast as the veyron. I know they have the power but they dont have the gears and maybe note the aero to do it, at 260+ allot can happen. The car probably makes 7-800whp witch is allot but in the big power game cars like that are a dime a dozen so i do think it does allot with a little. Think of all the 1000bhp builds and them trying to go that fast, hpf m3,gtr's,supras
    We had this discussion before, from a previous post: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...2957#post72957

    "MSIZZLE, read this please, as you seem to be going by top speed figures and just seem to offer a very young, power dominant perspective. Gordon Murray is right on in his assessment of the Veyron, here are some excerpts:

    Regarding the quality of the body/chassis:

    The chassis/body structure is hybrid like the last Bugatti (EB110) with carbon fiber used for the primary structure and aluminum alloy for the body and front crash structure. In this respect, the all-carbon McLaren F1 and the RTM (Resin Transfer Molding) carbon Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren are, in fact, more advanced. Carbon-ceramic brakes are used as with the Porsche GT and the SLR.
    Regarding the aerodynamics, it is not up the level it should be for this financial development and this is because the engineers were forced to build around the design. I hope you understand what that means, a proper supercar is built around what is best for the car and not hindered in this manner:

    The aerodynamics is interesting and complex. The design and development have been directed at problem-solving in the areas of cooling and vehicle stability. At such high speeds, the basic shape of the Veyron will generate a lot of lift. Add to this a large frontal area and 10 radiators and heat exchangers, and suddenly here's where the 1001 hp [metric horsepower] dissipates at 250 mph! The CDA figure [drag coefficient x frontal area] is at the high end of the scale for rear-engine sports cars. At these sorts of speeds, a massive amount (often three or four times the net figure) of downforce has to be generated to overcome the basic lift in order to achieve the target figure for net downforce. The Veyron is a full ground-effect vehicle like the McLaren F1 and Ferrari Enzo. The downforce increases as a square of the speed, so there are large forces to design for at speeds approaching Vmax [top speed] — these forces eat into available suspension travel and can cause high-speed stability problems.
    Just read the whole thing, from the man who redefined what "supercar" means and took it to a whole new level: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/da...-of-a-supercar"

  10. #35
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    The point is, they target different arenas. The F1 cant do things the veyron can and vice versa. It's impossible to say which is better because they have different purposes.

    Its like saying which is better, a CTS-V or a ZO6?

    Im pretty sure VW didnt just slap together an engine and chassis to make the veyron. There had to be some thought put into it, you know; like real engineering. To make a production car stable at 260 mph requires a lot of research and testing, you cant deny that achievement.

    The F1 redefined the word supercar in 1994, the Veyron redefined it again in 2005.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    The point is, they target different arenas. The F1 cant do things the veyron can and vice versa. It's impossible to say which is better because they have different purposes.
    What can't the F1 do that the Veyron can though?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Its like saying which is better, a CTS-V or a ZO6?
    As a sports car you can say the Z06 is better.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Im pretty sure VW didnt just slap together an engine and chassis to make the veyron. There had to be some thought put into it, you know; like real engineering. To make a production car stable at 260 mph requires a lot of research and testing, you cant deny that achievement.
    It was incredible engineering around a poor design. The fact they did it shows how good they are.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    The F1 redefined the word supercar in 1994, the Veyron redefined it again in 2005.
    I disagree because the F1 did more than reach a big HP and top speed figure. It didn't redefine what stats make a supercar, it redefined the entire process of creating one.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I disagree because the F1 did more than reach a big HP and top speed figure. It didn't redefine what stats make a supercar, it redefined the entire process of creating one.
    Yes but average people dont care about the process to go about making the car, they look at the end result. The end result is, when the veyron came out it was the baddest $#@! on the planet. There is no sense in even comparing it to the F1 because one is a saloon and the other is a track car. I still think gordon had his ego hurt because a big lumbering car was doing some amazing $#@!.

    The F1 car was also designed to hit 'numbers'. Top speeds, lap times, these are all performance metrics that a car is designed to achieve. The only difference is the veyron has different metrics that it was designed to achieve, hence why they cant be compared.

    You asked what the Veyron can do that the F1 cant, well heres a few things that come to mind.

    It can go 260 mph
    it has an automatic
    has a bigger trunk space
    accelerates faster than the F1 in a straight line
    doesnt require as much driver skill
    has more creature comforts like nav, bluetooth, ipod integration and $#@! etc...

    see how stupid this sounds? now you ask yourself why would the F1 need any of this $#@!, its a track car its meant to only come in a manual and doesnt need a radio. Exactly, two different cars. Each excel at what they were designed for. Hence, Gordon is butthurt.
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  13. #38
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    Look man, a girl is driving a Veyron! even a girl can drive it and that's a shame.

    Can a girl driver F1? NO and that's cool.


  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Yes but average people dont care about the process to go about making the car, they look at the end result. The end result is, when the veyron came out it was the baddest $#@! on the planet. There is no sense in even comparing it to the F1 because one is a saloon and the other is a track car. I still think gordon had his ego hurt because a big lumbering car was doing some amazing $#@!.

    The F1 car was also designed to hit 'numbers'. Top speeds, lap times, these are all performance metrics that a car is designed to achieve. The only difference is the veyron has different metrics that it was designed to achieve, hence why they cant be compared.

    You asked what the Veyron can do that the F1 cant, well heres a few things that come to mind.

    It can go 260 mph
    it has an automatic
    has a bigger trunk space
    accelerates faster than the F1 in a straight line
    doesnt require as much driver skill
    has more creature comforts like nav, bluetooth, ipod integration and $#@! etc...

    see how stupid this sounds? now you ask yourself why would the F1 need any of this $#@!, its a track car its meant to only come in a manual and doesnt need a radio. Exactly, two different cars. Each excel at what they were designed for. Hence, Gordon is butthurt.
    Not exactly true, the F1 wasn't build with a set top speed in mind. It just happened to be so well built it hit ridiculous numbers. Look at the top speed for the F1 and its horsepower vs. the Veyron and its HP. One is clearly a far more efficient design.

    The Veyron is a dual clutch but I get your point. Although people will argue the F1 is more of a pure experience, which it is.

    The F1 isn't just a track car. It has more luggage space than the damn Veyron and can sit 3 people. Gordon Murray built it to be the every day usable supercar and in a lot of ways it is better at that than the Veyron.

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    The Koenigsegg is just the $#@! IMO...

    The points mentioned above about the Veyron vs. F1 are somewhat interesting. One can validly argue that the Veyron has redefined what a supercar is, that is true I would say the change is not for the better. Drive one and the initial experience is phenomenal when pushed at full tilt, balls out in a straight line. But its a heavy car and cornering while impressive is difficult to maintain. Veyron is a gadget geeks dream it almost drives itself to a degree, much like a GTR in its current form.

    The F1 was/is a purist point of view where aerodynamics, weight, power and gearing get it done. Top gear ran those two cars together and Veyron with all its techno crap couldnt catch the F1 for quite some time. It won but the results were not the ass kicking one would have expected. A major achievement for the F1 and proof positive that well designed package is better than massive hp all day long.

    They are sublimely different cars... You drive the Veyron to showoff, to cover long distances in total comfort and get to absurdly high speeds. You drive the F1 to get the raw, pure experience on tracks/back roads and to do absurdly fast things.

    I cant post the link to Top Gear but a quick search on Youtube will show it for those who may have seen this already.
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    The F1 was/is a purist point of view where aerodynamics, weight, power and gearing get it done. Top gear ran those two cars together and Veyron with all its techno crap couldnt catch the F1 for quite some time. It won but the results were not the ass kicking one would have expected. A major achievement for the F1 and proof positive that well designed package is better than massive hp all day long.
    Exactly and I bet the F1 would not only be more fun to drive but would whoop the Veyrons ass HARD around a track.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    I cant post the link to Top Gear but a quick search on Youtube will show it for those who may have seen this already.
    You have over 5 rep points, you should be able to.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    You sir are right... Here ya go, vids says a ton!

    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

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    ^ Awesome video that illustrates the difference between the two quite well. The F1 is the superior vehicle IMO, and the better driving experience.

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    AWD + DCT + LC + 1000hp still loses to a 600hp manual RWD car at launch?

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    AWD + DCT + LC + 1000hp still loses to a 600hp manual RWD car at launch?
    Because the Veyron is a boat and inefficient. If the McLaren F1 had the same HP and tranny it would annihilate the Veyron.

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    a 1000bhp F1 would rape everything on the planet !

    Hey i say get rid of that M3 and buy an F1, not much difference in price tags, right?

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