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  1. #26
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    ok, i dont care really. we can use this as a gathering of all the info and ill start a new one when i find and stick to one place to cover the actual build

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    ok, i dont care really. we can use this as a gathering of all the info and ill start a new one when i find and stick to one place to cover the actual build
    Yep.

  3. #28
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    From what you have said the only thing going on in yours is the same thing you always see in high power increase ATs...the clutch packs are slipping due to the torque and you need some increased line pressure to hold it....that alone would likely due for awhile. You just might as well do the torque converter while you are in there.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    From what you have said the only thing going on in yours is the same thing you always see in high power increase ATs...the clutch packs are slipping due to the torque and you need some increased line pressure to hold it....that alone would likely due for awhile. You just might as well do the torque converter while you are in there.
    exactly what i was thinking. replace what worn, clutch packs most likely with stronger material, VB to firm everything up, and might as well do TQ while we are at it. but i dont think ill be increasing the stall any.

    how does increasing the stall affect daily driving characteristics?

  5. #30
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    That price is ri-goddamn-diculous!!!

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    how does increasing the stall affect daily driving characteristics?
    It can slip more from low speeds, at least that is what some of the Benz guys with higher stalls have said.

  7. #32
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    what do you mean slip?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    what do you mean slip?
    I just think it increases the threshold where the car will actually begin to move forward. It may seem like you're in neutral until you push the gas in a bit more. Correct me if I'm wrong, just my layman's interpretation based on limited knowledge.

    More noise at low speeds and less movement.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Iwll do Rich, Phil whichever it is, I CANT REMEMBER!!
    Phil? LOL, it's rich.

  10. #35
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    It means that the converter won't actually engage until that higher rpm is reached which is at a higher hp level. Depending on how much you increase it, you will or won't affect the daily driveability of the car. A car/truck with a high stall converter will be the equivellent of an MT car dropping the clutch at a higher rpm thus giving it an abrubt start everytime you leave a stop. I've been around numerous muscle cars w/ high stall converters and they sound like the trans is slipping at first and then all of a sudden they lock up and jolt forward. I'd leave the stall alone if I were you seeing as you have the ability to brake boost and build boost at lower rpms where NA and most supercharged motors have linear powerbands and benefit from higher rpm launches.
    07 e92 335i Best run: 11.83@ 120.04 w/ 1.84 60' & 2127 DA

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    yea, i understood that it will raise the rpm in which it engages when powerbrakeing. i just dont inderstand how it translates to street driving.

    anyone know what our current stall is?

    i know at the track i could rev to 3k and build some good boost, toward the end i could go to 3500, but i think thats also when im y issues started to show themselves.

    but neither of those make sense because when accelerating ffrom a stoplight, my car doesnt not move until 3k, it starts moving at what, maybe1200rpm? so how does that change with a stall increase from stock, to adding say 500 rpm?

  12. #37
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    I just called trans specialties, they did get my email, waiting on the owner to come in and review. said they will call me back today when they talk it over and believe they can help. they know of IPT as well and say they do good work, but known for inflated prices.

    they dont have performance rebuilds listed, but do, do that work as well, so *fingers crossed* Click here to enlarge

  13. #38
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    That is good news man. Since they say that IPT has inflated prices, they should get back to you with a full upgrade fore much cheaper or at least I would hope so. Awesome that they have transmissions on hand too!
    07 e92 335i Best run: 11.83@ 120.04 w/ 1.84 60' & 2127 DA

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    high stall...when done right on a street car should not be noticable...like peps above said you could notice a bit of lag before movement....but this should only be bad (as in the jerk someone mentioned) if it is to aggressive. For example it isn't like the car doesn't move until stall limit is reached stock.

    You can see what the stall is by brake torquing like you would before a launch until the rpms won't go any higher....problem is power overwhelms our brakes before that happens as far as I know....but you could try really mashing down on both the brake pedal and pulling the ebrake.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #40
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    Here....pulled from wikipedia (actually has a pretty good article on it but you need to read it all if you read any because parts of it aren't described very well.

    Operational phases

    A torque converter has three stages of operation:

    • Stall. The prime mover is applying power to the impeller but the turbine cannot rotate. For example, in an automobile, this stage of operation would occur when the driver has placed the transmission in gear but is preventing the vehicle from moving by continuing to apply the brakes. At stall, the torque converter can produce maximum torque multiplication if sufficient input power is applied (the resulting multiplication is called the stall ratio). The stall phase actually lasts for a brief period when the load (e.g., vehicle) initially starts to move, as there will be a very large difference between pump and turbine speed.


    • Acceleration. The load is accelerating but there still is a relatively large difference between impeller and turbine speed. Under this condition, the converter will produce torque multiplication that is less than what could be achieved under stall conditions. The amount of multiplication will depend upon the actual difference between pump and turbine speed, as well as various other design factors.


    • Coupling. The turbine has reached approximately 90 percent of the speed of the impeller. Torque multiplication has essentially ceased and the torque converter is behaving in a manner similar to a simple fluid coupling. In modern automotive applications, it is usually at this stage of operation where the lock-up clutch is applied, a procedure that tends to improve fuel efficiency.
    Basically it is all about torque multiplication...a high stall not only can allow a higher rpm launch (through brake torquing at the line), but it also increases torque multiplication as the torque converter stays in the "stall" phase for longer (which actually lasts well after you begin moving, which is often misunderstood) it also will allow you to enter the power band quicker do to the higher multiplication advantage.

    Should also point out that the reason you don't want to go to aggressive, besides the jarring drive characteristics, is that the torque converter will be far less efficient at high speed...meaning it will generate lot of heat. For a drag car that ok because they shut down after a single pass. But for a street car on the highway a high stall of dedicated drag car level would overheat and likely grenade....into you thighs and lower abdomen...fun stuff.

    Of course as long as the lockup feature and behavior is maintained this is a non issue as there is negligible heat generated when it is locked. Point being make sure the shop understands you want a street setup just mildly more aggressive than stock.
    Last edited by Forced Air; 06-08-2011 at 12:21 PM.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    I like where this is going Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    well, they called me back. it seems they can do the work, but seing as they havent done it yet, not sure they want to do the R&D into a performance build. apprantly IPT and trans specialties used to share the same space, and know eachother very well.
    so i tossed the idea of using them to rebuild the internals, but use IPT tq conv and VB, he said he'd call them and see what they can workout.

    ill keep you updated

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well, they called me back. it seems they can do the work, but seing as they havent done it yet, not sure they want to do the R&D into a performance build. apprantly IPT and trans specialties used to share the same space, and know eachother very well.
    so i tossed the idea of using them to rebuild the internals, but use IPT tq conv and VB, he said he'd call them and see what they can workout.

    ill keep you updated
    hmm...

  19. #44
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    They called me back looking for more info. Im liking how they are looking into this so quickly. I got a good vibe by the fact that the 2 competitng com/panies are looking into a solution and are NOT pitted against eachother. Im sure we can figure something out that can not only benefit me, but the entire aut trans community with a viable upgrade. Not many people are at the limits now, but a well priced option is sure to get attention from everyone. They may not have plans to go as far hp wise as me, but being proactive and eliminating the downtime i have will surely appeal to the masses that want piece-of-mind. Instead of saying oh well, if it happens ill get a used stock one and encounter the same issues again down the road

  20. #45
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    Props on taking the lead
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    sounds good Lm, can't wait to see this happen.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

  22. #47
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    "Steven,

    Trans Specialties will rebuild your ZF6HP19 and IPT will handle your valve body and torque converter. Our price for the rebuild/r & r and atf is as follows:
    Rebuild $3280.00
    R & R $ 350.00
    ATF $ 223.00
    Total $ 3853.00

    If you have any other questions please to hesitate to us.
    Mike
    Trans Specialties
    866-397-3624"

    so, it looks like we are gonna go ahead with this. im gonna see when i can get my car to them and see who can give me a ride home.. and add a cooler to it and that will be that! Click here to enlarge

  23. #48
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    Nice!!! What about your spare trans? Can't they build that one to eliminate the down time?

  24. #49
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    There is no spare anymore, the bellhousing was cracked when it arrived so they took it back and gave a refund

  25. #50
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    So what is the final tally and how much down time?

    Glad thngs are working out man!
    07 e92 335i Best run: 11.83@ 120.04 w/ 1.84 60' & 2127 DA

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