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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I never had a bosch ignitor fail on me...they were usually very solid in operation. 3 years of straight track use which is much more violent than street driving and never had one issue.

    Matt - Chris says they are to "trick the stock ecu". Again, they cannot competently wire up a standalone to control the engine and accessories. Disappointing. They're using ballast resistors for the stock ecu to "control" and the ignition module to provide some sort of feed back. Barf.


  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Matt - Chris says they are to "trick the stock ecu". Again, they cannot competently wire up a standalone to control the engine and accessories. Disappointing. They're using ballast resistors for the stock ecu to "control" and the ignition module to provide some sort of feed back. Barf.
    I just want to know, does Pro-EFI themselves and HPF both wire the Pro-EFI setup differently?

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I just want to know, does Pro-EFI themselves and HFP both wire the Pro-EFI setup differently?
    no the HPF car that jason first put the pro efi on was also wired the same way.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    no the HPF car that jason first put the pro efi on was also wired the same way.
    Interesting, I wonder why this criticism wasn't made earlier then as it applies to both.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, I wonder why this criticism wasn't made earlier then as it applies to both.
    because it wasnt HPF at that time............look who made the criticism and then ask yourself if you really had to ask that question
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    because it wasnt HPF at that time............look who made the criticism and then ask yourself if you really had to ask that question
    I asked the question to get this answer Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I asked the question to get this answer Click here to enlarge
    touche sir!....lol
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Matt - Chris says they are to "trick the stock ecu". Again, they cannot competently wire up a standalone to control the engine and accessories. Disappointing. They're using ballast resistors for the stock ecu to "control" and the ignition module to provide some sort of feed back. Barf.
    Ahhh I gotcha. I figured they were using it like how it was supposed to be used....the coil wires go to it, and the IGN output from the engine management pulls the ground on the ignitor. Cuse done in that fashion they have survived all sorts of vibration issues, rumble strips, even a small fire (oil fires suck) and lived to race the next day.

    I only blew a set once...and took a coil out with it too. WorldPac had recieved some mis-boxed 3 channel ignitors, and they were 2 channel instead...I didnt know this til later on when I realized the part numbers werent right (thats what you get for being in a rush)...being the way I had wired them up it kept instantly popping the ignition fuse..I had a 30A in there and it just melted a coil and went POP...I fried bothignitors and had to replace 2 coils out of the 6..

    But that was in my infancy days of doing harnesses, havent had an issue since..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, I wonder why this criticism wasn't made earlier then as it applies to both.
    I don't think it was well known how the ProEFI was adapted to the DME...I would like to see ProEFI take control of everything and toss the DME... Getting rid of the middle man is always a better idea IMO. I do know that HPF retained the stock DME in case people wanted to revert back to stock; keeping things more simple and because it worked. I'm not so sure ProEFI would want to take on the process of pulling the DME and tuning the car fully with the ProEFI EMS...I would like to see it though.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    I don't think it was well known how the ProEFI was adapted to the DME
    Very true, we have more details now.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    I would like to see ProEFI take control of everything and toss the DME
    They claim it can but they haven't... which leads to skepticism IMO of the claim. That is why it is referred to as a piggyback and SHOULD be referred to as a piggyback as it is being used.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They claim it can but they haven't... which leads to skepticism IMO of the claim. That is why it is referred to as a piggyback and SHOULD be referred to as a piggyback as it is being used.
    Regardless of whether it's being used as a piggyback is moot and that has been discussed to death. I'm sure ProEFI could do it...I just don't think they want to take on the challenge of doing it...dunno we will have to see. Jason could surprise us.

    If the DME was removed would there be any negative aspects?

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure ProEFI could do it...I just don't think they want to take on the challenge of doing i
    I think they can but until they do it is an unsupported claim.

    The piggyback talk has been discussed to death but just want to emphasize using Pro-EFI in that context is correct.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    I do however, take exception to this comment. First, its completely invalid because no one you're talking about here "makes" their own EMS. Jason does software development on Pro-EFI; Apex Speed Technology does software development on a number of platforms. But its not like there's a factory in back 'churnin out ECUs.
    Neel, you should take some time to delve a little deeper into ProEFI's potential impact on the markets you serve. They are a relatively young company, but they have a product that I believe will dominate the middle market they serve once they achieve brand recognition. To state that ProEFI doesn't make, offer and sell a competing EMS product to the ones you currently offer is being a bit naive.

    I'm glad to hear about your successes, just don't let that success blind you from emerging brands and markets. Though I may not have near the motorsports knowlege you have, complacency is bad for business and exploiting that IS something I AM an expert in.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 06-05-2011 at 11:31 PM.

  14. #64
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    Who said anything about complacency?

    Neel, you should take some time to delve a little deeper into ProEFI's potential impact on the markets you serve. They are a relatively young company, but they have a product that I believe will dominate the middle market they serve once they achieve brand recognition. To state that ProEFI doesn't make, offer and sell a competing EMS product to the ones you currently offer is being a bit naive.
    What I was that said is neither of us have a factory in back building ECUs and my intention was to describe our business, not to compare our current line with anyone else.

    I'm glad to hear about your successes, just don't let that success blind you from emerging brands and markets. Though I may not have near the motorsports knowlege you have, complacency is bad for business and exploiting that IS something I AM an expert in.
    I assure you, what you are claiming above is the exact opposite of who we operate.

    Apex is interested in any product which would provide value to our customers. I have, in other threads here, asked Jason if we could get a unit to evaluate. We have sent emails and tried to contact him but have not heard back. When there's a new product that looks interesting, the first thing I do is try to get my hands on one! We have a long history of helping new vendors grow their markets. I am watching Pro-EFI carefully, and when Jason's ready to contact us, we will discuss evaluating it for possible addition to our product lines.

    Quality, reliability and manufacture support are how we measure potential vendors. For example, we decided against becoming a Marelli distributor after a particularly disappointing experience evaluating their SRT ECU. We have stepped away from some plug & play motocross & car ECUs after they had quality-control issues. We have a full-service wiring harness shop & an experienced support staff, which is why so many competing manufacturers have chosen to make us dealers.

    The S54 setup they are marketing doesn't control throttles or camshafts and doesn't seem to allow you to strip out the entire electrical system for use in a dedicated race car or swap. This is the only standpoint from which I don't see it as a competing product - most people who come to us require these features.

    However, as I said for the forced-induction street-car market, it seems like an intriguing solution and I look forward to learning more.

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  15. #65
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    @Apex-Speed-Technology
    What about Vems?,it can control dual Vanos also.
    a lot of Swedish people uses it,and is not expensive .

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    The S54 setup they are marketing doesn't control throttles or camshafts and doesn't seem to allow you to strip out the entire electrical system for use in a dedicated race car or swap. This is the only standpoint from which I don't see it as a competing product - most people who come to us require these features.
    ^ This I want to see from ProEFI

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    I assure you, what you are claiming above is the exact opposite of who we operate.
    I don't think you understood my comments.

    Apex is interested in any product which would provide value to our customers. I have, in other threads here, asked Jason if we could get a unit to evaluate. We have sent emails and tried to contact him but have not heard back.
    The way you down played his EMS might have something to do with not getting responses to emails. I don't see ProEFI having a problem getting dealers once they start to gain brand recognition. HPF just basically ditched the AEM after Jason showed them how superior it was. They are going to keep gaining market share while you continue to believe it's not a direct competitor to the EMS's you currently offer.

    When there's a new product that looks interesting, the first thing I do is try to get my hands on one! We have a long history of helping new vendors grow their markets. I am watching Pro-EFI carefully, and when Jason's ready to contact us, we will discuss evaluating it for possible addition to our product lines.
    This is where I was talking about complacency. I see it everyday from the Companies that hire me to consult them on building market share and brand. It doesn't help for you to come on a forum and talk down a product when it is very clear you have done very little research about the product.

    Quality, reliability and manufacture support are how we measure potential vendors. For example, we decided against becoming a Marelli distributor after a particularly disappointing experience evaluating their SRT ECU. We have stepped away from some plug & play motocross & car ECUs after they had quality-control issues. We have a full-service wiring harness shop & an experienced support staff, which is why so many competing manufacturers have chosen to make us dealers.

    The S54 setup they are marketing doesn't control throttles or camshafts and doesn't seem to allow you to strip out the entire electrical system for use in a dedicated race car or swap. This is the only standpoint from which I don't see it as a competing product - most people who come to us require these features.
    The comments above clearly demonstrate you have not done your research and thus where my complacency comment comes in. You are so confident in your knowledge and have become comfortable working with the platforms your offer, that your not making the effort to conduct the due diligence required.

    However, as I said for the forced-induction street-car market, it seems like an intriguing solution and I look forward to learning more.
    Click here to enlarge When are you going to grasp the concept that this EMS is a stand alone? Jason simply chose to let the OEM DME control vanos and throttle in his E46 M3 plug and play kits because he feels that is the better route, not because the EMS can't control everything. I would have figured this would be obvious considering how HPF is ditching it for the ProEFI. I believe Jason has demonstrated that the VANOS and throttle is just fine the way it is.

  18. #68
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    I don't see this as a big deal. Everyone has options now. He'll I'm even thinking about proEfi because it sounds awesome!

    Just FYI my AEM setup controls my throttle, it's actually tuned on TPS at the moment.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I can't see why Jason would not want to have a good, reputable tuning shop offer his ProEFI product...business is business. Ignoring an email from APEX requesting more information and making the effort to set themselves up to market the product would be stupid IMO. It's as simple as this...if the product IS as good as it is being marketed right now...then why not send it over to apex for them to decide for themselves? You said it yourself Chad, HPF changed their choice from AEM to ProEFI after a day...should be just as simple with APEX or other performance shops.

    And I think I speak for most people here when I say we're sick of your ego stroking about how companies hire you etc... etc... At least I am anyways. But that's why this is an open forum...do as you wish.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    And I think I speak for most people here when I say we're sick of your ego stroking about how companies hire you etc... etc... At least I am anyways. But that's why this is an open forum...do as you wish.
    Yes, I've been told I'm an arrogant prick on more than one occasion. Everyone on this forum has an ego and strokes it in their own way. You have one as well you just don't realize it, all men with any amount of testosterone do. Some will post videos about how they just ran 60-140, or raced another car on the freeway while racing past families. I find those people to be just as arrogant and ego driven by putting innocent people in harms way. In much of the same way I am turned off by people who post those videos and race their 800HP cars on the street.. you are turned off by me gloating about my business success. At least my ego doesn't put people in harms way but I bet you have no problem with people who street race.

    Ego's are all subjective.. and I'm not here for a popularity contest. People who know me personally.. know I'll bend over backwards to help a fellow enthusiast out, even someone I think has a bigger ego than me lol.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    It's as simple as this...if the product IS as good as it is being marketed right now...then why not send it over to apex for them to decide for themselves?
    That's something between Apex and ProEFI.. I simply pointed out coming on forums and down playing someones product isn't exactly the best way to establish a working relationship. Especially when it seems the person commenting on the product doesn't even have a full grasp of the products capabilities.

    On the surface, at least to me, it looks like an established vendor trying to down play an emerging competitors product. I could be totally wrong here, but based on my personal experience in business, that is how it looks to me.

  21. #71
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    ICCSYKES,

    you blamed for not revving 9000 rpm.

    I ve just put attached a log which shows a 8926 rpm run....Enjoy
    E36 M3 Euro TT 60-130 mph 4.49 s
    E46 M3 3.6L TT 60-130 mph 4.22 s
    All Wheel drive M3 Twin Turbo
    997 TT



  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    You said it yourself Chad, HPF changed their choice from AEM to ProEFI after a day...should be just as simple with APEX or other performance shops.
    On last thing.. it's not as simple as just saying.. hey we want to sell ProEFI. You have to take into account dealer agreements etc.. You will never see Pepsi and Coke being sold at the same restaurant for a reason. I have no idea what kind of restrictions APEX may have.. if any at all.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 06-06-2011 at 03:53 PM.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3 Click here to enlarge
    I ve just put attached a log which shows a 8926 rpm run....Enjoy
    Just make a better video where people can clearly see the gauge cluster and Vbox results. If your runs are legit then you will be able to shut everyone up and monuments will be built in honor of your achievements.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Just make a better video where people can clearly see the gauge cluster and Vbox results. If your runs are legit then you will be able to shut everyone up and monuments will be built in honor of your achievements.
    Less sun and videos will be better, however my runs are legit, verified. Sent two different DBN files. Posted a 3,5 minute video. These are enough.
    E36 M3 Euro TT 60-130 mph 4.49 s
    E46 M3 3.6L TT 60-130 mph 4.22 s
    All Wheel drive M3 Twin Turbo
    997 TT



  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Yes, I've been told I'm an arrogant prick on more than one occasion. Everyone on this forum has an ego and strokes it in their own way. You have one as well you just don't realize it, all men with any amount of testosterone do. Some will post videos about how they just ran 60-140, or raced another car on the freeway while racing past families. I find those people to be just as arrogant and ego driven by putting innocent people in harms way. In much of the same way I am turned off by people who post those videos and race their 800HP cars on the street.. you are turned off by me gloating about my business success. At least my ego doesn't put people in harms way but I bet you have no problem with people who street race.

    Ego's are all subjective.. and I'm not here for a popularity contest. People who know me personally.. know I'll bend over backwards to help a fellow enthusiast out, even someone I think has a bigger ego than me lol.



    That's something between Apex and ProEFI.. I simply pointed out coming on forums and down playing someones product isn't exactly the best way to establish a working relationship. Especially when it seems the person commenting on the product doesn't even have a full grasp of the products capabilities.

    On the surface, at least to me, it looks like an established vendor trying to down play an emerging competitors product. I could be totally wrong here, but based on my personal experience in business, that is how it looks to me.
    LOL I sure hope you're not referring to me as a "street racer"...an open CLEAR road is one thing...street racing is another.
    I also have a wife and two kids (11/13) and am a family man who would take action if a person ever put us in danger on the roads via street racing. In Canada a car can be impounded for going 50km/h over the speed limit (31mph); not to mention jail time and the car crushed for street racing. The highest speed limit in Canada is 110kmph (68mph)... it sure is a nice thing that I have never been pulled over for speeding and never had a photo radar ticket.

    I'm sure you're a cool car guy Chad...we're all trying to do the same thing...make our cars the way we want them and have them run perfect all the time...common goals and always improving them. Egos? Sure everyone has them...but most people don't continue to talk about them through every conversation they have in life. Just my opinion, continue doing what you're doing as your marketing knowledge CLEARLY shows off your business success? Dunno, the egos have it!

    As far as Apex and ProEFI is concerned...Apex has the right to discriminate towards a new product entering the market...as ProEFI has the right to market their product as how they wish. Comparisons and reviews are how people choose an engine management system. Either way we'll have to see...there's alot more business out there than ProEFI has time to market to at the moment so in time I'm sure the network will slowly expand and either blow up or die based on how good the product and the effort by the company is. Good things are coming out of ProEFI and I am slowly working my way on pulling the trigger...the more dealers who pick this up the better IMO.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Just make a better video where people can clearly see the gauge cluster and Vbox results. If your runs are legit then you will be able to shut everyone up and monuments will be built in honor of your achievements.
    Very true...guess we'll have to see if ProEFI has any issues with a dealer with all those EMS options!
    Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 06-06-2011 at 04:38 PM.

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