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Thread: Gintani Stage 2+ and ESS VT2 625 supercharged DCT E92 M3 M3 1/4 mile comparisons

              
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    Gintani Stage 2+ and ESS VT2 625 supercharged DCT E92 M3 M3 1/4 mile comparisons

    Well, now that DLSJ5 ran at a strip in California with his high boost meth setup ESS M3 we can do some comparisons.

    Here is his result with weight removed on the Gintani Stage 2+ @ 8.5 psi with 1166 foot Density Altitude:

    11.459@131.671

    Click here to enlarge

    Here is my result with a Gintani Stage 2+ @ 7.5 psi with -300 DA full weight:

    11.964@130.146

    Click here to enlarge


    Now Drew ran at Famoso this past Friday with his ESS VT2 625 high boost (claimed 7.5 psi) meth setup ~1000-1500 DA not sure as slip was not posted:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5
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    My best run was 11.30 @ 129.34, 1.97 60'
    Likely race gas, seats removed, and meth, just like what he ran at Sacramento. ESS still has not had a setup crack 130 mph in the 1/4 mile with just boost but looks like eventually they will get there.

    Wonder why the slip was not posted for these newest runs?

    Pretty interesting that things are exactly like how I stated with around the same boost and meth producing around the same results in around the same conditions. So where is this hypothetical efficiency advantage? Where is this "gain" in shift speed with their "software" for the DCT? Nowhere, but any advantage likely lies with the blower with greater volume (t-trim). Either way, close enough that conditions, weight, etc., will all have the greatest influence on the results going to show the conditions in which the kits are run is most important as there is not a big enough difference between them to decisively make any conclusions one way or another when the settings are equal (boost + meth).

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    Oh and surprise surprise, he is having transmission issues:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5
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    I am working with ESS now to fix the burnout issue, it has to do with power, not the DCT Tranny temps. Then I should be able to hit that 10s pass.
    Well, it actually has to do with the transmission temps as the power creates temp issues when burning out. Trans fluid temp rises after the burnout, you get the problem. You can't burnout without overheating eh? Yes, been there, back in 2009 except the only way to solve that problem properly is with hardware upgrades unless you trick the ECU. Drew won't be able to push the tranny much harder and well, nobody is going to give him any free trans parts/handouts, so the only option becomes raising the temp thresholds at the expense of clutch life. It's amusing to me to at least to see how far ahead of the curve we were back then with these issues that he is now experiencing.

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    Oh, and also, these 1/4 mile results should show all of you that a Vbox reads high compared to the strip. He was claiming 132 mph or so traps based on the Vbox, well, at the strip 129 and likely 127 and 128 mph runs since he only quoted his best (with no slip). Just goes to show how a Vbox inflates the numbers and the difference between synthetic and real world results.

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    interesting read on the tranny part.
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
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    interesting read on the tranny part.
    Sure is. All that software can do regarding the transmission is raise the torque limits, change the temp alarm range, and raise the fluid pump pressure. That's it... nobody has control of anything beyond that and the problem is exactly what I encountered a long time ago.

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    very interesting, well BB sure is ahead of the curve
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
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    very interesting, well BB sure is ahead of the curve
    That is the truth, on the bleeding edge of BMW performance especially the E92 M3.

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    Pretty crazy stuff, hope to get some footage tho Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Full weight sticky? Seems like every excuse you make for his car to be fast he proves you wrong. And less than 1mph difference is nothing at all when your comparing two different tracks, with to different DA's, etc... and the best part is, its all being done on less boost.
    Last edited by ERM324; 05-16-2011 at 04:49 PM.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Also, couple corrections:
    1) Sticky werent you running 8.5psi when you hit the strip with your Gintani Stage 2+? I know its been a LONG time since youve driven that thing, seems like your memory is getting distorted?

    Heres your dyno sheet:
    Click here to enlarge

    2) Im not from cali, but based on what I see doesnt Sacramento read higher trap speeds than Famoso (3mph?)?

    3) Also, Vbox's are pretty damn accurate so idk who your bullshitting.....hell you have a 60-130 list completely based on 60-130 numbers that (for the most part) are attained with VBOX data....so are you saying your entire list doesnt mean anything because its based on something that inflates numbers?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=R-lX96ryDss
    Full weight sticky? Seems like every excuse you make for his car to be fast he proves you wrong. And less than 1mph difference is nothing at all when your comparing two different tracks, with to different DA's, etc... and the best part is, its all being done on less boost.
    Prove what wrong? Your tone and attitude is always so negative.

    I don't know how much boost he is running as with either setup he was going for the best results possible. He is adding more and more boost and getting more and more aggressive tunes. Surprised? I'm not. The goal is for him to run the fastest time he can to promote for ESS. That is why he got the deal he got, don't you get it?

    Both kits are very fast with equal settings. That is the point, there is no perceived superiority unless you want to look at the power potential of the blowers in which case the T-trim has more headroom. I never claimed his car was not fast, what are you babbling about?

    The ESS kit with meth is faster than the kit without meth, obviously. As I have been stating forever, the Gintani Stage 2+ always had an advantage due to meth. With equal settings, they are basically equal as they are basically the same hardware.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
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    Also, couple corrections:
    1) Sticky werent you running 8.5psi when you hit the strip with your Gintani Stage 2+? I know its been a LONG time since youve driven that thing, seems like your memory is getting distorted?

    Heres your dyno sheet:
    http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...5/1h49vm-1.jpg

    2) Im not from cali, but based on what I see doesnt Sacramento read higher trap speeds than Famoso (3mph?)?

    3) Also, Vbox's are pretty damn accurate so idk who your bullshitting.....hell you have a 60-130 list completely based on 60-130 numbers that (for the most part) are attained with VBOX data....so are you saying your entire list doesnt mean anything because its based on something that inflates numbers?
    1. I ran 7.5 psi, ask Drew if you want he was at the track. He ran a higher boost pulley than I did at Sacramento.

    2. Sacramento is regarded as a fast track partially because it can hit negative DA. Famoso tends to be warmer but that is why you have DA listed for you.

    3. Vbox's are extremely accurate. Who said a Vbox was not accurate? Let me slow this down for you or possibly put it in bold since you continue to not be able to grasp it.

    A Vbox reads trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile, ok?

    A strip uses the average between two sets of timing lights toward the end of the 1/4 mile, ok?

    What does this mean? It means a Vbox will read higher traps usually. Drew ran 132 traps on the Vbox, 129 and under at the strip. Wrap your head around that please.

    Notice that for the 1/4 mile in the standings we do not accept Vbox numbers? You do know that the 1/4 mile and 60-130 are different things right? You know a slip has speed and time? While 60-130 is just listed as time? So applying 60-130 numbers as evidence of 1/4 mile accuracy is well... uh, dumb?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
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    Full weight sticky? Seems like every excuse you make for his car to be fast he proves you wrong. And less than 1mph difference is nothing at all when your comparing two different tracks, with to different DA's, etc... and the best part is, its all being done on less boost.
    Drew runs a lightweight battery and I have seen him strip out weight personally when going for fast times.

    My advice is to simply assume the car is at its peak for all these runs since people are now just lying to make it seem like one setup is stronger than the other. Always assume race gas, weight removed, and drag radials that way you won't be disappointed when you try to match these times and can't seem to figure out how they are doing it. I call this the Hotrod rule.

    Would be nice to get a direct comparison finally like we have tried but instead we will all continue playing the game of getting the best conditions for our own peak runs and then people like you who don't know any better will apply them as evidence for all kits. It's funny, how new are you to this?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    people like you who don't know any better will apply them as evidence for all kits. It's funny, how new are you to this?
    This is the exact reason I always have a negative attitude in my posts with you. Also, love the infraction....I remember the first time I was wrong too Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
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    This is the exact reason I always have a negative attitude in my posts with you. Also, love the infraction....I remember the first time I was wrong too Click here to enlarge
    I'm not going to promote some douchebags site that got this place censored, you kidding me?

    Wrong about what? You mean being right about saying the kits are basically a wash with the same settings? Yes, I know, I'm way ahead on this topic.

    I'm sorry you don't know the difference between Vbox traps and actual drag strip traps. What do you want me to do for you? I hope you understand why we don't accept Vbox readings for the 1/4 mile list now.

    It's fine that you were wrong insinuating that I said the Vbox was not accurate, no big deal. Just please don't lie or puts words in my mouth.

    When you're ready to respond to my points let me know, or you can just play with the smilies as it's easier.

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    Since I was the one who setup that private track rental at Famoso this past Friday, I was at the staging area most of the time and have watched almost every pass from every car, so let I think I can shed some light on a few points.....

    1) We ran approximately from 1:30 am to 3:30 am....
    2) I took DA measurements LIVE at the track (dragtimes DA measurements are a little off). DA started out around 1400 ft and dropped to just under 1000 ft. Humidity rose to 65%
    3) Drew ran his car in full weight setup.... nothing was removed.
    4) VBox trap speeds will always show higher trap speeds than the track trap speeds because VBox measures the actual speed at the end of the 1/4 mile mark while the 1/4 mile speed measuring equipment gives the average speed over the last 60 feet or so of the 1/4 mile. This means if the VBox ever read the same as the 1/4 mile track speeds, then something is wrong with it, as that should never happen.
    5) Drew never got one single decent burnout out of the car. Every burnout he attempted, the wheels would stop spinning within a second or two of initiating the burnout. It was very strange to watch.
    6) From the way it ran on Friday, I think the car is capable of flat 11s (if not 10s) if he can get a decent burn out.
    Last edited by Exeenom; 05-17-2011 at 02:56 AM.
    2007 E63 P30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    1) Drew ran his car in full weight setup.... nothing was removed.
    Good to know. Any idea about the lightweight battery?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    2) I took DA measurements LIVE at the track (dragtimes DA measurements are a little off). DA started out around 1400 ft and dropped to just under 1000 ft. Humidity rose to 65%
    This is what I was really looking for, thanks, so around 1000 feet.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    3) VBox trap speeds will always show higher trap speeds than the track because it gives the actual speed at the end of the 1/4 mile mark while the 1/4 mile equipment gives the average speed over the past 60 feet or so. This means if the VBox ever read the same as the 1/4 mile track, then something is wrong with it, as this should never happen.
    Exactly correct, some people are new to this apparently.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    4) Drew never got one single decent burnout out of the car. Every burnout he attempted, the wheels would stop spinning within a second or two of initiating the burnout. It was very strange to watch.
    Weird considering the supposedly awesome DCT software he is supposed to have.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    5) From the way it ran on Friday, I think the car is capable of flat 11s (if not 10s) if he can get a decent burn out.
    It is most definitely capable of 10's as it sits.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Good to know. Any idea about the lightweight battery?
    Not sure about the battery but from what I recall, I didn't see any big batteries from any of the cars in the pit area. The Mercedes guys usually bring the light-weight battery and swap it at the track, so you usually see a bunch of 72 lbs batteries everywhere. I don't know how you guys do it with BMWs? Do you drive around in the light-weight batteries or do you swap them at the track?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    This is what I was really looking for, thanks, so around 1000 feet.
    It dropped to just under 1000 ft in the last 20 minutes or so.... aside from that, it was over 1000 ft.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Weird considering the supposedly awesome DCT software he is supposed to have.
    I don't know what was going on, but it was definitely weird. I had the guy spray extra water for him and it didn't help. Everybody were scratching their heads on that one.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It is most definitely capable of 10's as it sits.
    Probably.... but he would have to get that burnout problem resolved first though....
    2007 E63 P30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    Not sure about the battery but from what I recall, I didn't see any big batteries from any of the cars in the pit area. The Mercedes guys usually bring the light-weight battery and swap it at the track, so you usually see a bunch of 72 lbs batteries everywhere. I don't know how you guys do it with BMWs? Do you drive around in the light-weight batteries or do you swap them at the track?
    Well the battery he bought is an OEM Mini battery which actually holds a decent charge so you can daily with it, no need to swap.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    Probably.... but he would have to get that burnout problem resolved first though....
    Yep, no heat means no 10's.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    is there a charged m3 in the 10s yet?
    also sticky, whats the fastest s/c e90 manual?
    thanks in advance

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by four pipe Click here to enlarge
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    is there a charged m3 in the 10s yet?
    also sticky, whats the fastest s/c e90 manual?
    thanks in advance
    Yes, a setup with nitrous ran 10.8: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...e-10s#comments

    Here is the fastest manual time: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...-Manual-E92-M3

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    thanks buddy

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by four pipe Click here to enlarge
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    thanks buddy
    My pleasure.

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