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  1. #1526
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    But how can we without new updates from you on your car?
    You'll get them when I post them. Until then I don't know what to tell you.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    but maybe if you gave us some info that people could eat up and be positive about this thread could get back on track, no?
    No.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    From my side it is funny. It's the same routine OMG so long blah blah blah. Perhaps people can get on the topic of an M3 motor and transmission build instead.
    I'm surprised the speculation and ribbing bothers you frankly, I've seen you speculate on the status of numerous projects(vishnu's, ess cars etc) and speculate so and so blew his motor cause of some thing that seems odd to you etc. I get that you'd like everyone to just never post on this thread til you have something you feel like sharing but if this one anyone elses thread you'd be right in there saying "maybe they blew the motor while breaking it in/tuning it and they dont want to say and they're rebuilding" etc. You more than anyone should know that once you post something on a forum you gotta accept peoples opinions, otherwise dont put anything up in the first place and no one will ever comment.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I'm surprised the speculation and ribbing bothers you frankly, I've seen you speculate on the status of numerous projects(vishnu's, ess cars etc) and speculate so and so blew his motor cause of some thing that seems odd to you etc. I get that you'd like everyone to just never post on this thread til you have something you feel like sharing but if this one anyone elses thread you'd be right in there saying "maybe they blew the motor while breaking it in/tuning it and they dont want to say and they're rebuilding" etc. You more than anyone should know that once you post something on a forum you gotta accept peoples opinions, otherwise dont put anything up in the first place and no one will ever comment.
    I'm sorry you have to give me specifics as discussion about Vishnu finally brought about comment on the misfires caused by the dual mass flywheel so sorry please point me to baseless speculation you are referring to?

    It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is people are having trouble getting it to sink through their heads that their timetable and what they think in their own mind should happening is not reality. I'm not some retard sitting here twiddling my thumbs and hoping one day a car will get done. I was just there a few days ago, I know what is going on, and I'm more than comfortable/happy with it. So people should probably listen to what I tell them about my own car instead of inventing their own reality.

    Get it?

  4. #1529
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    Last information given about this car was on Jan 12 2012.
    Sticky then hoped the car would be finished in a month.
    Every event after that his car was on the break of being finished.
    We're 13 months further and he still is defending Gintani for the great job they are doing.
    What can you say...
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
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  5. #1530
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    We're 13 months further and he still is defending Gintani for the great job they are doing.
    What can you say...
    Bro really? Ok here's the great job they did. Since flanged sleeves were originally used in three motors and since the deck height of the S65 block gives very little material to work with it wasn't discovered until all three motors were assembled and supercharged and tuned in the cars that by removing material from the block for flanged sleeves causes it to flex under big power. Rather than strengthening it, it weakened it.

    So, three motors disassembled and three new blocks purchased ON THEIR DIME and a new sleeve design in coordination with Darton was figured out which I will not share and not to mention something else regarding rod angles which I won't even get into as no other builder even remotely has a clue. This along with new internals and I decided I wanted higher compression so also new pistons ON THEIR DIME.

    As I said, it's a process and back when I posted everyone was advocating flanged sleeves and nobody even knew what would happen because nobody else is pushing these motors this far. So maybe starting the motor build, internal, and sleeve design over caused a slight delay? But oh, ya, terrible job they are doing GETTING IT RIGHT.

    So, all of you, kindly shut up as you don't know what you're talking about and wait. Go down to the shop or call it to ask for yourself if you need to. YOU. HAVE. NO. CLUE.

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    Sorry I had to push you there my friend Click here to enlarge
    But finally some information on what's going on.
    Repped for that!
    Edit. Hah catch 22, must spread rep...
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  7. #1532
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    Ya like I want to tell companies who haven't done any of this what they should be doing rather than them learning on their own dime. Like Gintani should put in all the reaserch and cost and not reap all the benefit.

    There's a reason the ESS built motor setups only run low boost and aren't even sleeved. I could make close to the same power on a stock motor car.

  8. #1533
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I know that Gintani is working on a TT M3, I'm wondering... Is that what you've been up to @Sticky ?!

    I probably should not have said anything but, oh well.
    It will probably be running before Sticky, lol. They keep rolling out new builds don't they?
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  9. #1534
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Bro really? Ok here's the great job they did. Since flanged sleeves were originally used in three motors and since the deck height of the S65 block gives very little material to work with it wasn't discovered until all three motors were assembled and supercharged and tuned in the cars that by removing material from the block for flanged sleeves causes it to flex under big power. Rather than strengthening it, it weakened it.

    So, three motors disassembled and three new blocks purchased ON THEIR DIME and a new sleeve design in coordination with Darton was figured out which I will not share and not to mention something else regarding rod angles which I won't even get into as no other builder even remotely has a clue. This along with new internals and I decided I wanted higher compression so also new pistons ON THEIR DIME.

    As I said, it's a process and back when I posted everyone was advocating flanged sleeves and nobody even knew what would happen because nobody else is pushing these motors this far. So maybe starting the motor build, internal, and sleeve design over caused a slight delay? But oh, ya, terrible job they are doing GETTING IT RIGHT.

    So, all of you, kindly shut up as you don't know what you're talking about and wait. Go down to the shop or call it to ask for yourself if you need to. YOU. HAVE. NO. CLUE.
    I assume you meant bore spacing gives very little material? Not sure how far along you are in fixing this but why not send the block to Darton and have them R&D a M.I.D. sleeve for you? That's theyre specialty and frankly they will get you exactly what you need plus in the future if you damage a sleeve swapping it is cake. Not a knock on Gintani but performance shop should not be mucking around guessing at sleeve design etc that's $#@! 99% of machine shops cant handle. Darton will get it turned around quick and you'll have a block that will laugh at what you throw at it.

  10. #1535
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    From my side it is funny. It's the same routine OMG so long blah blah blah. Perhaps people can get on the topic of an M3 motor and transmission build instead.
    This damn thread went off topic about two years ago, How can it stay on topic if OP has not offered any pertinent info regarding the build or status in over a year?
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  11. #1536
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    Hit them up:

    http://dartonsleeves.com/rd_svcs.htm

    Another thing you can do if your running into to weak of a deck is to weld up the water passages from the head and just route water seperately to head and block if done by someone who knows it can help a good bit here is what I mean:

    You can see where the flange for the sleeve goes into the water passages
    Click here to enlarge

    Fully welded, sleeved amd freshly cut
    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Jimefam; 02-16-2013 at 07:17 PM.

  12. #1537
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ya like I don't want to post anything. People should just be patient these posts are absurd and idiotic. Easy to sit there and type especially when someone has no idea what is going on.
    Sticky the only thing I see here that is absurd is the length of time this build has taken. I have been modding and racing cars and motorcycles probably close to as long as you have been alive. Never have I seen a build get dragged along for this long.
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  13. #1538
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I assume you meant bore spacing gives very little material?
    That's part of it as well but no I mean the material at the top of the block.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Not sure how far along you are in fixing this but why not send the block to Darton and have them R&D a M.I.D. sleeve for you?
    This has all already been done you're way behind. But you guys all assume it's just sitting there and nothing is happening, it's absurd.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Not a knock on Gintani but performance shop should not be mucking around guessing at sleeve design etc that's $#@! 99% of machine shops cant handle.
    They didn't do the original sleeve design Darton did. So... umm.

  14. #1539
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Sticky the only thing I see here that is absurd is the length of time this build has taken. I have been modding and racing cars and motorcycles probably close to as long as you have been alive. Never have I seen a build get dragged along for this long.
    How long you have been racing or modifying cars has absolutely nothing to do with issues presented by the S65 and its alu-sil construction. BMW didn't build this motor to the level/strength of the S54.

  15. #1540
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's part of it as well but no I mean the material at the top of the block.

    the deck height is the measurement from the centerline of the crank to the top of the deck so unless you made the sleeve longer instead of thicker you mean bore space and just dont know it

    This has all already been done you're way behind. But you guys all assume it's just sitting there and nothing is happening, it's absurd.

    I asked because you were contacting Dart about a billet block not too long ago so it seemed possible either it wasnt resolved or there wasnt alot of faith in the resolution



    They didn't do the original sleeve design Darton did. So... umm.
    Of course Gintani didnt actually construct the sleeve i knew it was Darton but unless you sent them your block and paid them to R&D it all they did was build whatever was specc'd to them. If it works or not is not within their ability to know. Plus had you sent it to their R&D 1 it would have worked and 2 it would habe been a MID sleeve.

  16. #1541
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    the deck height is the measurement from the centerline of the crank to the top of the deck so unless you made the sleeve longer instead of thicker you mean bore space and just dont know it
    Or the sleeve is longer and I know exactly what I'm saying?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I asked because you were contacting Dart about a billet block not too long ago so it seemed possible either it wasnt resolved or there wasnt alot of faith in the resolution
    Just a separate issue out of curiosity and for fun.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Of course Gintani didnt actually construct the sleeve i knew it was Darton but unless you sent them your block and paid them to R&D it all they did was build whatever was specc'd to them. If it works or not is not within their ability to know. Plus had you sent it to their R&D 1 it would have worked and 2 it would habe been a MID sleeve.
    Yes, they received a block. And it didn't work the first way and guess what HPF had similar problems.

  17. #1542
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Or the sleeve is longer and I know exactly what I'm saying?
    You building a stroker?
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  18. #1543
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    You building a stroker?
    No.

  19. #1544
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Or the sleeve is longer and I know exactly what I'm saying?



    Just a separate issue out of curiosity and for fun.



    Yes, they received a block. And it didn't work the first way and guess what HPF had similar problems.
    No you dont know what your saying or you wouldnt have said you had to little material at the top of the block(length of sleeve would be irrelevant as is deck height) and further said bmw left too little material

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Or the sleeve is longer and I know exactly what I'm saying?



    Just a separate issue out of curiosity and for fun.



    Yes, they received a block. And it didn't work the first way and guess what HPF had similar problems.
    And I call BS on them R&Ding the sleeves post up who @Darton engineered them. Lol at the hpf saw a few videos on that and ill bet that wasnt a darton build either, hell one of their videos is at their machinists shop.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No.
    For what would you want a longer sleeve and why that cause the block to flex????

  22. #1547
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    For what would you want a longer sleeve and why that cause the block to flex????
    Big boost is causing the S65 block to flex. It's not a big deal on the stock compression kits, but it's a problem on the low-compression builds
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Big boost is causing the S65 block to flex. It's not a big deal on the stock compression kits, but it's a problem on the low-compression builds
    Have you not read the last pages? He is saying the block is flexing due to the sleeves leaving too little material nothing in regards to boost. He also got confused and claimed he had too little material around the sleeves due to deck height then said his sleeves were longer than the stock cylinders. Longer sleeves to run the stock stroke btw!

  24. #1549
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Have you not read the last pages? He is saying the block is flexing due to the sleeves leaving too little material nothing in regards to boost. He also got confused and claimed he had too little material around the sleeves due to deck height then said his sleeves were longer than the stock cylinders. Longer sleeves to run the stock stroke btw!
    Just re-read post #1530. Gintani only sleeves their low-compression builds & the sleeves are working exactly as advertised. The problem is the Alusil block isn't very strong & when you bore out the cylinders to install the sleeves, it further exposes the weak block strength of the S65 (which is why the stress from higher boost levels is causing the block to flex).

    ESS isn't having the same "problem" because they're maintaining the OEM block without sleeves (slightly higher block rigidity) and not pushing the S65 as aggressive (ESS runs the VT3 at 14 psi, Gintani's Stage 3 "low boost" is 15 psi).

    Is this build chasing an unobtainable goal, becoming a money pit + a bit ridiculous? Maybe, especially if it's going to require a Dart billet block (an extra $15-20k) just to run higher boost & avoid block flex. BUT if everything works out, this is going to be the baddest S65
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  25. #1550
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Just re-read post #1530. Gintani only sleeves their low-compression builds & the sleeves are working exactly as advertised. The problem is the Alusil block isn't very strong & when you bore out the cylinders to install the sleeves, it further exposes the weak block strength of the S65 (which is why the stress from higher boost levels is causing the block to flex).

    ESS isn't having the same "problem" because they're maintaining the OEM block without sleeves (slightly higher block rigidity) and not pushing the S65 as aggressive (ESS runs the VT3 at 14 psi, Gintani's Stage 3 "low boost" is 15 psi).

    Is this build chasing an unobtainable goal, becoming a money pit + a bit ridiculous? Maybe, especially if it's going to require a Dart billet block (an extra $15-20k) just to run higher boost & avoid block flex. BUT if everything works out, this is going to be the baddest S65
    I wouldnt be so quick to blame the Alusil, the Audi V10 has done pretty well in the new R8 and Gallardo's.

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