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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Funny, you just answered your own question
    No, I didn't answer my own question. I said it was difficult, not that they didn't run right. There are literally hundreds of tuners that do built motors on a variety of platforms, the majority run correctly if it is a quality tuner. If you want to check out some eye opening built motors, take a look at Nelson Racing Engines sometime.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    ESS is smart, they dont want to be releasing kits that eventually blow up because they KNOW that issues are associated with doing a built motor/high boost set-up on the S65.
    You are basing this on what? Any support for it? Or are you just making an assumption? What happened is they abandoned their Stage 3, fact.

    Yes, it's very difficult to do a high boost built motor setup. Seems only 1 company thus far has had the skill to even get to 9 psi on a built low compression motor, right? If others aren't capable, it's understandable.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Gintani on the other hand has a nice track record for supercharged cars that dont run....I still to this day havent seen any video/dyno of tighties stage 3 in action.....and I doubt your car will be any different insomuch as it will never run right and be a one-day-a-week performer with the other 6 days dedicated to having to deal with issues.
    Well thank you for your vote of confidence and desire to see the S65 bar raised. Considering you have absolutely 0 first hand experience I don't take your opinion to heart as it is based on reading forum posts instead of actually having a supercharged M3 of any sort.

    My car ran quite strong, as in, was the first to set the bar for high end S65 performance. Now I intend to raise that further. I think it will be be fine to use everyday but even so I would rather have a car that performs strong 1 day a week than have a weak car 24/7.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Your simply defending him because your car is in the same boat. I am well aware I come off as a dick saying all this, but it seems as if you and many other people live in a fantasy world if you think this is a good result. M6 is a slow car, bottom line. Yeah its fast, but when put in perspective with other 500hp cars it is a pig (z06, gtr, etc...). If your doing that drastic of a change to your engine (dropping the compression, putting a blower on it, etc...) would you not be dissappointed if you were the driver and the M6 was still visible in your rearview mirror? I think anyone would.
    Nobody is trying to live in a fantasy world or claim this is what to expect. I see no reason for faulting someone for posting low boost runs with a built motor M3 considering nobody else has done so. Yes, you come off like a dick because you have a poorly informed opinion and seem to overlook this is a low compression low boost motor with a 6 speed.

    Maybe pat him on the back for getting further than anyone else? Maybe try not to put him down for blazing a trail? Maybe appreciate that others are willing to take chances and incur downtime for the benefit of the community and platform? You are acting like a hater instead of an enthusiast.

    I would be disappointed if I knew that was all my setup was capable of. It's a process, this is part of it, appreciate it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    I just think out of all people your in for a real shellshock when you get your car back and see the results dont live anywhere up to your expectations.
    I mean you no offense, but from what I have read of your opinions and knowledge of the platform thus far I put little value in your predictions. If you can't understand that a low compression motor will produce less power at the same boost compared to a high compression motor and do not even take into account the DCT's tighter gearing and quicker shift speed, well, I think it is you that might be in for the real shock when the big boost hits.

  2. #27
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    I do understand that a low compression motor is more inefficient at the same boost, which is why I assumed that a stage 3 at 9psi would be about a stage 2 at 7 as per my original post. And my predictions? I think they have all been SPOT ON in regards to DCT and blown S65's....from day 1 I said LM would get walked by a blown M3 DCT, and what happened? The AA M3 blew by him in a heartbeat (OK he had an SES light, but even what thats fixed his buddy AK will still walk him)....I also said ESS wasnt as slow as originally thought, and what happened? Look at drews numbers on and OFF the meth, both very impressive. Only thing we disagree on is this stage 3 set-up...which I completely understand where your coming from. but I still find these results unimpressive regarless of the fact its a 6MT.
    Im not going to argue anymore, we just have differing opinions.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Regardless, Im not going to argue anymore.
    Wise move considering how it has gone thus far.

  4. #29
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    Since you modified your initial post, I will respond.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    from day 1 I said LM would get walked by a blown M3 DCT, and what happened?
    This applies to built motor S65 setups how? It doesn't take a genius to figure out a motor with an 8250 redline with a centrifugal blower, flat curve, and DCT trans will be favored in a top end run.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    I also said ESS wasnt as slow as originally thought, and what happened? Look at drews numbers on and OFF the meth, both very impressive
    Drew's car is a marketing tool. He is being paid to produce numbers essentially with his kit. They take the money off, they hired him to portray it a certain way. Don't you get it? Look at cars not running the same numbers. What about them? You can't pick a glory run and it apply it across the board as evidence of all kits, it's absurd.

  5. #30
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    LOL for some reason Drew's car is the ESS car that we've all been waiting for. Coincidence?
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Thats $#@!ing pathetic......im sorry, I know you put alot into that car but for a stage 3 supercharger with a built motor, I dont care what boost its on it should be out of sight within 5 seconds.
    Either your car isnt running right or that M6 has something else under its hood he didnt tell you about......yet again, most custom built motors never run right regardless of the brand..so I wouldnt be surprised if yours wasnt either..

    For example, Drew with a stage II gintani kit pulled out of sight within seconds.....not for nothing, you dont need more boost, but to get that motor checked
    The M6 is too much man for the M3 to handle Click here to enlarge

    M6 is a slow car, bottom line. Yeah its fast, but when put in perspective with other 500hp cars it is a pig (z06, gtr, etc...).
    Have you even ever driven any of these cars you're such an expert on?

  7. #32
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    How the hell is an M6 a slow car top end?

  8. #33
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    the M6 vs M3 battle is exactly like M3 vs 335i battle.
    335i guys say M3 is pig, and M3 guys say M6 is pig,
    and both are wrong.

  9. #34
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Drew's car is a marketing tool. He is being paid to produce numbers essentially with his kit. They take the money off, they hired him to portray it a certain way. Don't you get it? Look at cars not running the same numbers. What about them? You can't pick a glory run and it apply it across the board as evidence of all kits, it's absurd.
    two thing aren't right here :
    1) Talking this way about someone that has done so many thing in BMW commniuty, He's a marketing tool just because he posts videos about his car? the exactly same thing can be said about him long time ago, when he posted vids about Gintani kit.
    2) marketing or not his car is fast, which shows ESS is able to make a kit not just for dyno glory, also for real world.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
    Have you even ever driven any of these cars you're such an expert on?
    never

    (sarcastic of course)

    And I never said the M6 was a slow car overall. I said it IS fast, but when it is compared to other 500hp cars like the GTR and Z06 it is slow (for the most part because of its weight as well).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    two thing aren't right here :
    1) Talking this way about someone that has done so many thing in BMW commniuty, He's a marketing tool just because he posts videos about his car? the exactly same thing can be said about him long time ago, when he posted vids about Gintani kit.
    2) marketing or not his car is fast, which shows ESS is able to make a kit not just for dyno glory, also for real world.
    +1

    Funny when drew makes videos of the Gintani kit its okay and Sticky has a hard on, but when he does the same thing for ESS he claims all of a sudden he lies (he has undocumented weight reduction, etc...) because hes running a different set-up.

    And meth is used for COOLING, not as a fuel substitute. At most it should be giving an additional 20whp on his kit because (correct me if im wrong) they dont have a tune for a meth set-up. Hes running a generic 625 tune and just using the meth to lower IATS. So its not that big of a difference of all with or without the meth UNLESS the car is being tuned for it.

    Seems like Gintani were the only ones tuning their cars for it, bc AA (from what AK said in the recent dynothread) simply runs 7.5psi and uses the meth for cooling. This is the same thing Drew is doing as well.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    two thing aren't right here :
    1) Talking this way about someone that has done so many thing in BMW commniuty, He's a marketing tool just because he posts videos about his car? the exactly same thing can be said about him long time ago, when he posted vids about Gintani kit.
    2) marketing or not his car is fast, which shows ESS is able to make a kit not just for dyno glory, also for real world.
    1. What has he done? Use forums to get himself a discount at the expense of certain companies? What a guy.

    2. That isn't a representation of what most owners get in the real world, that is the point.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    never

    (sarcastic of course)

    And I never said the M6 was a slow car overall. I said it IS fast, but when it is compared to other 500hp cars like the GTR and Z06 it is slow (for the most part because of its weight as well).
    How is it slow vs. the GTR when it traps the same without turbos (early GTR models) ?

    The Z06 is a dedicated lightweight sports car and an M6 with bolt on's can run with it and beat it... so... uh, not exactly slow.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Funny when drew makes videos of the Gintani kit its okay and Sticky has a hard on, but when he does the same thing for ESS he claims all of a sudden he lies (he has undocumented weight reduction, etc...) because hes running a different set-up.
    His kit back then was basically the same thing as mine except he ran even more boost. He got a discount to promote then as well.

    I know his exact deal. Drew does video work for a living and he approached Gintani and asked for a discount in exchange for promoting. The thing is, when he did that he didn't throw anybody under the bus. This time he did showing he is more concerned about his own bank account, sad. I don't give that big of a $#@! about a few thousand that I will deliberately hurt and lie to one tuner to play them against another to get myself a discount.

    Hope you understand the difference.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    And meth is used for COOLING, not as a fuel substitute. At most it should be giving an additional 20whp on his kit because (correct me if im wrong) they dont have a tune for a meth set-up. Hes running a generic 625 tune and just using the meth to lower IATS. So its not that big of a difference of all with or without the meth UNLESS the car is being tuned for it.

    Seems like Gintani were the only ones tuning their cars for it, bc AA (from what AK said in the recent dynothread) simply runs 7.5psi and uses the meth for cooling. This is the same thing Drew is doing as well.
    Meth was used for charge cooling in my car as well as Drew's, not as fuel. You obviously are not familiar with the setup. By using it that way you can run more boost and prevent detonation, what don't you get? Who knows what tune he is running, he has a flash loader from them. Plus, this isn't about his car.

    Yes, Gintan dyno tunes their SC setups, no one size fit all stuff.

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    my car hasnt hit 7.5 on my recent dyno run... my gauge was off by .5 -.7 psi due to a Buddy trying to help me. You can see my dyno on page 3 in my dyno thread with a BOOST log.

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    guys! its only part 1 of the built motor process.

    i know its not hitting top power and I fully respect what Gintani/OE and doing for me to make sure that my car is running safe so they are testing and testing. I'm far away in asia I don't think they want anything to go wrong with my car. which is a good thought.

    at the end of the day I just wanted to show my experience and I deleted my first run with the M6 by mistake.

    but the M6 already got warmed up and a made about 5 runs already the DME must have fully learned.

    why? I say this is because I notice the car gets faster with each run. you can see a huge difference fron the video. I thought that was pretty kool.

    hope you guys like the vid.
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    guys! its only part 1 of the built motor process.

    i know its not hitting top power and I fully respect what Gintani/OE and doing for me to make sure that my car is running safe so they are testing and testing. I'm far away in asia I don't think they want anything to go wrong with my car. which is a good thought.
    Exactly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    at the end of the day I just wanted to show my experience and I deleted my first run with the M6 by mistake.
    Are you going to re-upload it?

    Exactly, you just wanted to show your experience with just part of the built process so a shame some can't appreciate that. Most get it though....

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Meth was used for charge cooling in my car as well as Drew's, not as fuel. You obviously are not familiar with the setup.
    Sticky I ran meth on my last car I am very familiar with the set-up. All I was saying if you dont RAISE BOOST because you have an increase in ignition timing due to the meth then the effects of meth are minimal (10-20whp). THOUGH, if you TUNE for meth and take advantage of the better ignition timing and raise the boost then the effects can be dramatic. My point being is ESS (drew) and AA dont tune for the meth and dont run 9-9.5psi, they simply have it there to cool the IATS and even though boost could theoretically be raised they keep it at a responsible level.

    So by saying that there is a HUGE difference in Drew's car because he is running meth is wrong because he isnt tuned for it. A Gintani Stage 2+ car will be taking advantage of the meth by pushing more boost (and have consequentially more power), while he is lucky if hes getting 20whp out of it because he is running a 91octane file tune (or 93octane tune for his 625 runs because he is running a mix of 91 and race gas). The difference between his car on and off the meth would be the difference in running a ESS M3 625 in 80 degree weather, and running the same car in 40 degree weather (you get my point)...its obviously going to be slightly quicker because of the cooler IATS and denser air. Yeah, it allows him to run more boost but does he? No, he uses the generic tune.

    So realistically, looking at it from my end of the country where we have 93 octane (and can run the 625 kit on pump) and most of the time cooler temperatures, his results on 91+meth on a generic tune (not tuned for meth) are more in line with what I should be expecting over here than his runs on 91 alone.
    Last edited by ERM324; 05-07-2011 at 01:14 PM.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky I ran meth on my last car I am very familiar with the set-up. All I was saying if you dont RAISE BOOST because you have an increase in ignition timing due to the meth then the effects of meth are minimal (10-20whp). THOUGH, if you TUNE for meth and take advantage of the better ignition timing and raise the boost then the effects can be dramatic. My point being is ESS (drew) and AA dont tune for the meth and dont run 9-9.5psi, they simply have it there to cool the IATS and even though boost could theoretically be raised they keep it at a responsible level.
    Yes, they haven't had meth tunes which should again tell you what setup will be more efficient with meth. Unless you want to try to defend a setup not being tuned as you are now saying vs. a setup that takes it into account with the boost and tuning? This itself should open your eyes.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    So by saying that there is a HUGE difference in Drew's car because he is running meth is wrong because he isnt tuned for it. A Gintani Stage 2+ car will be taking advantage of the meth by pushing more boost (and have consequentially more power), while he is lucky if hes getting 20whp out of it because he is running a 91octane file tune (or 93octane tune for his 625 runs because he is running a mix of 91 and race gas).
    Even if he isn't tuned for it he can still run more boost without detonating on 91 than someone who is not running meth. So yes, huge advantage.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    So realistically, looking at it from my end of the country where we have 93 octane (and can run the 625 kit on pump), his results on 91+meth on a generic tune (not tuned for meth) are more in line with what I should be expecting over here than his runs on 91 alone.
    93 octane does not equal 91 + meth. If you think so and think you will get similar results, get your kit already and let's see.

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    Sticky look at MikeWads results with NO METH and NO NITROUS, he has sub-7 60-130's. This proves my point exactly - running 93 octane in cooler temperatures will yield similar results to 91 octane with meth in warmer temperatures. I dont understand how you cant see this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky look at MikeWads results with NO METH and NO NITROUS, he has sub-7 60-130's. This proves my point exactly - running 93 octane in cooler temperatures will yield similar results to 91 octane with meth in warmer temperatures. I dont understand how you cant see this.
    You are swaying away from the topic now.

    Once again, you are comparing a peak run and using it across the board as justification. What, you think the car always does sub 7 second 60-130's? Nope, that was one glory run. Not an average of what it or all cars are capable of. Plenty of 60-130 runs over 7 seconds, right?

    Cooler temperatures will mitigate some of the advantage of running 91 + meth but first of all MikeWads was more than likely on race gas and very high boost. Secondly, 93 octane will never offer the consistency of 91 + meth in all conditions as you will need low temperatures to even approach what 91 + meth can do but meth will always have the advantage especially if you tune for it vs. pump. I hope you see this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No, I didn't answer my own question. I said it was difficult, not that they didn't run right. There are literally hundreds of tuners that do built motors on a variety of platforms, the majority run correctly if it is a quality tuner. If you want to check out some eye opening built motors, take a look at Nelson Racing Engines sometime.
    I love their shelby build!!!

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    Nice run but i was suprised with the results as well, IF the M# has more in then good for him and congrats on a great build

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    ** not directed at any single person

    I think you guys need to read up on how Comp. affects power. if you recall, a stock Gintani s65 (2+) motor make what? roughly 600hp, or really close to it? @ 9psi? so this one, lowered compression, made 570 ish? well that right there is because he lost power at that boost level due to compression. what he gains is, that now if he bumps to 10psi, he should be right back at that 6xx hp level, more safely, and STILL have the ability to run even higher boost, still on pumpgas. reember that article i pasted up? this is a perfecct example of that in action

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    ** not directed at any single person

    I think you guys need to read up on how Comp. affects power. if you recall, a stock Gintani s65 (2+) motor make what? roughly 600hp, or really close to it? @ 9psi? so this one, lowered compression, made 570 ish? well that right there is because he lost power at that boost level due to compression. what he gains is, that now if he bumps to 10psi, he should be right back at that 6xx hp level, more safely, and STILL have the ability to run even higher boost, still on pumpgas. reember that article i pasted up? this is a perfecct example of that in action
    It's basic stuff.

    How come people aren't impressed with the first running built motor low compression S65 setup?

    Where are the others? Nowhere.

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