Close

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 100
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by metrik Click here to enlarge
    The torque curve is a little depressing.
    Very unlike BMW or M.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,608
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Reputation: Yes | No
    The S63 with its lower compression will be able to handle a TON of boost. 9.3:1 and stouter pistons. if it comes stock at 17.4 psi, I think the turbos are already close to max, 25 psi may be all what you can get which may bring you close to the limit of the turbos.

    I think with an exhaust, intake, 25 psi and some meth you should hit the 700s and run low 11s or 10s with slicks and solid launch.

    I like the S63 because of its tuning potential, but slapping turbos on a detuned and de-revved S65 is not the solution for BMW M technology.

    All in all I will take an S63 M5, in black please.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I like the S63 because of its tuning potential, but slapping turbos on a detuned and de-revved S65 is not the solution for BMW M technology.
    The S63 has nothing to do with the S65/S85 architecture.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,608
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S63 has nothing to do with the S65/S85 architecture.
    I know, but it just screams out at me.

    "WE DIDNT WANT TO MAKE AN S65 SUCCESSOR, SO WE TOOK IT AND THE KNOWLEDGE WE ACQUIRED FROM IT AND MADE AN ENGINE THAT CAN MAKE MORE POWER WITH BOOST, WOOT"
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I know, but it just screams out at me.

    "WE DIDNT WANT TO MAKE AN S65 SUCCESSOR, SO WE TOOK IT AND THE KNOWLEDGE WE ACQUIRED FROM IT AND MADE AN ENGINE THAT CAN MAKE MORE POWER WITH BOOST, WOOT"
    If they actually turbo'd an S65... now that is what I thought we would be getting, best of both worlds.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,608
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If they actually turbo'd an S65... now that is what I thought we would be getting, best of both worlds.
    Too costly to develop.

    For every 1000 RPM higher you want the engine to rev, costs another million in development costs. So a low revving turbo motor is a cheap way to lay down numbers.

    Dont get me wrong I LOVE my turbochargers, but its not exactly the same technological advancement that the S65 was. So to me, the S63 is taking a step back
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Too costly to develop.

    For every 1000 RPM higher you want the engine to rev, costs another million in development costs. So a low revving turbo motor is a cheap way to lay down numbers.

    Dont get me wrong I LOVE my turbochargers, but its not exactly the same technological advancement that the S65 was. So to me, the S63 is taking a step back
    I agree and that is why I find the naturally aspirated M motors far more impressive from an engineering standpoint. BMW was able to compete with larger motors and even forced induction motors with just smaller, naturally aspirated powerplants due to how well engineered they were. I find this approach lazier as they don't have to work so hard to maintain the curve up top for rev multiplication.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    HG Motorsports
    Posts
    385
    Rep Points
    512.7
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I honestly do wish they would leave the gas mileage pussy fest for the normal cars and keep the M cars pure the way we all like them, but it's just not possible in this market. At least, the big car companies don't seem to think it's possible.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    I honestly do wish they would leave the gas mileage pussy fest for the normal cars and keep the M cars pure the way we all like them, but it's just not possible in this market. At least, the big car companies don't seem to think it's possible.
    It's possible, plenty of car companies are still producing NA motors. I think BMW just got greedy selling the change to us under the guise of being green and essentially traded some of their soul for profit.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,608
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Honda is a prime example of engine technology coupled with unmatched efficiency. One cannot argue the flagship K20 and F22 with specific outputs exceeding 120 hp per liter. There is still room for technology and impressive engines with efficiency, without having to be a $#@!.

    Leave the hybrids up to toyota.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,293
    Rep Points
    2,744.4
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I have a feeling the S63 in the M5 will be different. BMW wouldnt let its flagship car become a slouch up top...its not as heavy as the truck is, but now that it totes the AWD system from a 750 who knows, its getting to be a porker.

    BMW could go 2 ways about it. Leave it alone to save money, or listen to its enthusiasts and pump in up in the redline area and match it to the S85.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I have a feeling the S63 in the M5 will be different. BMW wouldnt let its flagship car become a slouch up top...its not as heavy as the truck is, but now that it totes the AWD system from a 750 who knows, its getting to be a porker.

    BMW could go 2 ways about it. Leave it alone to save money, or listen to its enthusiasts and pump in up in the redline area and match it to the S85.
    I don't think there is any way it can even come close to the s85 curve or top end.

    However, we already know it has a higher redline than the X5 or X6 M so some changes have been made. I hope something more than just software.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    307
    Rep Points
    182.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Awesome article; I have been waiting for something like this for a while! It would be great if you could add a verison number and add appropriate updates, if and when necessary; i.e. as turbo upgrades become available for example. I say this because somebody searching will probably run into this article a year or two from now and may wish for updated info.

    Also, in an economy like today's i understand why BMW have chosen financial stability over ingenuity; they just spent a while developing these new engines and they have an inherent ability to be upgraded for better performance, so it is beginning to make sense. NOW, the M3 is where I think M engineers are going to show their magic tricks. I really do think that they are going to be showing us a motor worth its wait, but with porsche doing what they are, it's hard to really match them in terms of 6 cyl FI engines.

    Finally, I think the X6M is more of a package than just an engine. The way I see it, especially since I had a modded 335i, is that you have the extra power from the engine, but you need the brakes, engine mounts, handling, differential and such to be able to successfully use the engine. Straight-line power is great, but all that power from a normal bmw really is a testament to why M is different. Package Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Current:
    2010 CTS-V Sedan

    Previous:
    2007 e92 335i

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Awesome article; I have been waiting for something like this for a while! It would be great if you could add a verison number and add appropriate updates, if and when necessary; i.e. as turbo upgrades become available for example. I say this because somebody searching will probably run into this article a year or two from now and may wish for updated info.
    Thank you!

    The article will pretty much stay as is but when those things come they will receive their own updates. Perpetually updating this to reflect the tuning market won't be feasible, it makes more sense to just update with new articles as things progress. This is a snapshot of where we are as of today.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Finally, I think the X6M is more of a package than just an engine. The way I see it, especially since I had a modded 335i, is that you have the extra power from the engine, but you need the brakes, engine mounts, handling, differential and such to be able to successfully use the engine. Straight-line power is great, but all that power from a normal bmw really is a testament to why M is different. Package
    Engine mounts and better brakes constitute an M? The X6 M is really about horsepower, not handling. I don't see a radical difference in chassis capability between it and the X6 50i.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    307
    Rep Points
    182.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Thank you!

    The article will pretty much stay as is but when those things come they will receive their own updates. Perpetually updating this to reflect the tuning market won't be feasible, it makes more sense to just update with new articles as things progress. This is a snapshot of where we are as of today.



    Engine mounts and better brakes constitute an M? The X6 M is really about horsepower, not handling. I don't see a radical difference in chassis capability between it and the X6 50i.
    Really? I would assume that the x6M would be better handling car but if I am wrong, then I guess it is pure horsepower. Do you have numbers for braking distance and skidpad for each? That would be a nice comparison!
    Click here to enlarge
    Current:
    2010 CTS-V Sedan

    Previous:
    2007 e92 335i

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Really? I would assume that the x6M would be better handling car but if I am wrong, then I guess it is pure horsepower. Do you have numbers for braking distance and skidpad for each? That would be a nice comparison!
    I'm sure the skidpad and braking numbers are slightly better but there is not all that much of a handling improvement that can be done. It isn't like one goes to an LSD and new suspension or anything like that. They still have the same basic AWD system and a 5300 pound curb weight.

    What really seems to be making it an "M" is the power.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    307
    Rep Points
    182.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure the skidpad and braking numbers are slightly better but there is not all that much of a handling improvement that can be done. It isn't like one goes to an LSD and new suspension or anything like that. They still have the same basic AWD system and a 5300 pound curb weight.

    What really seems to be making it an "M" is the power.
    I did not know that; I had assumed what you said is not the case. This is very interesting, and, would make me buy the 50i if that was a decision I was making. Very weird that power is the only difference, to a certain degree.
    Click here to enlarge
    Current:
    2010 CTS-V Sedan

    Previous:
    2007 e92 335i

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    I did not know that; I had assumed what you said is not the case. This is very interesting, and, would make me buy the 50i if that was a decision I was making. Very weird that power is the only difference, to a certain degree.
    To a certain degree the power is the main difference. The brakes are different and they claim to do some different AWD tuning but it's the same basic thing.

    Really, the selling point is 555 horsepower. I would definitely opt for the X6 50i.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -257.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Honestly X6 M feels way more agile and sharper, I'm sure no one believe me when i say it can challenge sporty cars like CLS55 in handling terms.
    But what really is missing in both M SUV's is the feeling, I've never been a fan of AWD/Quattro systems, it makes steering numb and soulless and these SUV's aren't exceptions.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,293
    Rep Points
    2,744.4
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Reputation: Yes | No
    i had a customer of mine turn his x6 5.0 into this...

    I drove it around, and to be honest it really feels nice. I would love to get my hands on the X5 as its more suited to my/our needs.

    Now that you guys mention it, AMG has been all about power....sure they cant handle for $#@! most of the time, but they sure do lay an ass whooping. Its almost like BMW is following in its footsteps...our 'power' cars/trucks cant handle, but we throw a gazillion hp in there and still manage to kick ass anyway.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Now that you guys mention it, AMG has been all about power....sure they cant handle for $#@! most of the time, but they sure do lay an ass whooping. Its almost like BMW is following in its footsteps...our 'power' cars/trucks cant handle, but we throw a gazillion hp in there and still manage to kick ass anyway.
    Exactly, BMW seems to mimicking AMG to an extent.

    Hot X6 btw, more pics please.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    What's the over/under on HP figures for the N63 by the end of 2011 you think? I say just over 550whp.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -257.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    i had a customer of mine turn his x6 5.0 into this...

    I drove it around, and to be honest it really feels nice. I would love to get my hands on the X5 as its more suited to my/our needs.
    That's a beautiful X6, this is the first time that Performance parts suits car better than M sport.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    198
    Rep Points
    127.9
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    What's the over/under on HP figures for the N63 by the end of 2011 you think? I say just over 550whp.
    You tell us lol. If I were to guess I'd say 500 at the wheels.

    Great read Sticky, thanks!

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alextremo Click here to enlarge
    You tell us lol. If I were to guess I'd say 500 at the wheels.

    Great read Sticky, thanks!
    We'll see! My car is still @ AR Designs as they've had some difficulty sourcing parts but that appears to be over and the car should be completed this week. After that we'll see what the N63 is capable of with an aggressive tune and some meth. To get to the 550 I say I'm pretty sure I'll need to upgrade the twins and have been hard at work on that issue. All this delay has allowed me to make some progress on the RB25 though and I'm finally welding in my roll cage this week.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •