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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    im just curious why you say it is highly unlikely. do the research yourself, call BMWNA or e-Mail, whatever method you choose. the blades are opposite i can bet money on that. but you're right, if somehow the dme can be transferred it may work, but when's the last time you heard of a dme swap on a modern production car?
    It's highly unlikely that anyone adapts the S63 DME or figures out the N63 DME enough to do it anytime soon but the door is open for someone to try.

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    sticky you replied to me saying 'it is highly unlikely that they work they way i said they do'. i am and was right, they do spin backward, this is because of the way the blades were angled in the engineering. the dme is one thing, and sure that may be unlikely to adapt, as i initially said anyway. and jimefan is right, the s63 turbos aren't that amazing anyway, spinning normally or not, so for someone to go through the trouble of putting s63 turbos on a n63, if ever, will be wasting money, that money could have been spent trying to find precision or garrett turbos that work and going that route. im not looking for credit or anything about letting this information out or anything if thats what you think, i want to help the community is all, and in this case, explaining that the s63 turbos are way different, down to the direction of rotation! and wont swap to any platform without a heavy wallet.

    edit: im also saying that in order to upgrade the turbos on the s63, you need a turbo company to engineer the blades the same way, which is big money if not mass production, if you are using the stock dme.
    Last edited by oddjob2021; 06-24-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    sticky you replied to me saying 'it is highly unlikely that they work they way i said they do'. i am and was right, they do spin backward
    Uh, no, you misunderstood. What I wrote was:

    It is highly unlikely the S63 turbos will work as you stated but they can just be skipped then
    I said it is highly unlikely the S63 turbos will work on the N63 agreeing with what you stated, nothing about the way they spin.

  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I said it is highly unlikely the S63 turbos will work on the N63 agreeing with what you stated, nothing about the way they spin.
    okay then, well in any case, dont you think its a good idea to edit the OP? or would you like more information before making changes, since there is a significant difference between the n63 and s63 turbos, and one paragraph title says: Can I just add the S63 turbos, manifold, and other parts to my N63? and the initial answer is Maybe.

    edit: and to add, since the s63 turbos spin backward, it is a much harder platform to upgrade on if changing turbos or more simply, CHRA's. the n63 as of now is the platform to upgrade when using the stock dme. what i want to know is if the s63tu turbos are the same. jimefan do you have that info?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    okay then, well in any case, dont you think its a good idea to edit the OP? or would you like more information before making changes, since there is a significant difference between the n63 and s63 turbos, and one paragraph title says: Can I just add the S63 turbos, manifold, and other parts to my N63? and the initial answer is Maybe.
    I don't really understand why the OP needs to be updated. I stated maybe the S63 turbos will work. That is where we stand, nobody knows but people are currently trying to do it. The answer is Maybe.

    What would need to be changed?

  6. #81
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    it should say No, sticky, it should state that the s63 turbos will not directly swap with the n63, no matter how you cut it, unless you transplant every single item that corresponds with it, including the dme, which we all agree that is unlikely. there is no maybe to it afaik. maybe is the answer you give when you dont have all the pertinent information, in this case, there are facts, one of them being the blade angles are opposite.
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  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    it should say No, sticky, it should state that the s63 turbos will not directly swap with the n63, no matter how you cut it, unless you transplant every single item that corresponds with it, including the dme, which we all agree that is unlikely. there is no maybe to it afaik.
    Well I know people who actually are trying to do this. You kind of sound like the people who said an M3 could not be supercharged because of 12.0:1 compression.

    Do we really know 100% for sure the N63 can't use S63 hardware? I'm not 100% certain.

  8. #83
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    okay fair enough, i didnt know about those companies. i suppose time will tell, success or failure right? its possible some of the hardware and components will swap, but afaik the turbos themselves just will not swap mani included or not. but leave it as it is, thats fine, its your forum, your thread, your rules, i just dont want to hear about the poor fool who spent a boat load trying to make the turbo swap work.
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  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    okay fair enough, i didnt know about those companies. i suppose time will tell, success or failure right? its possible some of the hardware and components will swap, but afaik the turbos themselves just will not swap mani included or not. but leave it as it is, thats fine, i just dont want to hear about the poor fool who spent a boat load trying to make the turbo swap work.
    Yes, exactly, I think it is a time will tell issue. Simply too early to tell.

    If someone foolishly decides to do that without the proper research, well, I think chances are it would have happened with or without post editing.

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    Oddjob why do you say that the dme would need to be changed? The only difference between the turbos would be plumbing the piping. It's not a dme issue it would just be a pain to reconfigure the inlet and outlets. The solution most places are gonna come up with is upgrading the wheels on the turbos or swapping housings. That will be enough to satisfy 98% of the market but some will want more than can be squeezed out of two gt22's. I'd love to put in two gtx28's and hopefully longterm I'll get some manifolds that will allow it. Sticky the answer to that question IMO should read:

    "yes it can be made to work but the real question is is it worth it?" IMO the determing factor for that question will be the max cfm for the S63's and the cost and cfm's for whatever upgrades the aftermarket comes out with.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Sticky the answer to that question IMO should read:

    "yes it can be made to work but the real question is is it worth it?" IMO the determing factor for that question will be the max cfm for the S63's and the cost and cfm's for whatever upgrades the aftermarket comes out with.
    And you can write that in your article Click here to enlarge

    I'll stick with Maybe.

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    Still not understanding how turbo spinning direction affects anything.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maxnix Click here to enlarge
    Still not understanding how turbo spinning direction affects anything.
    Yeah, other than packaging on the car I can't figure it out either.

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    Count on me as well.

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    it just means its going to delay the aftermarket imo. its going to be harder to find a turbo company that's going to machine the turbine and comp wheels with opposite blade direction, especially if its low volume. with the n63, since the turbos spin 'normally' changing the chra out to a ceramic ball-bearing or like product will be much easier. thats all im really saying, that the s63 is going to be harder to push past the turbo limit, that when you crave even more power than the stock chra can muster (probably turbine side first, inefficiency at high revs and induced back pressure) it will be easier to attain on the n63, but i suppose time will tell huh?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    The solution most places are gonna come up with is upgrading the wheels on the turbos or swapping housings. That will be enough to satisfy 98% of the market but some will want more than can be squeezed out of two gt22's. I'd love to put in two gtx28's and hopefully longterm I'll get some manifolds that will allow it.
    thanks for the directed reply, my rebuttal to your point is you cannot swap gt(x) series turbos with the s63, the dme will never have it afaik. however, with the n63, you can swap (of course with proper hardware and tuning) to garrett or precision series turbos, chras, etc because they spin normally, and the way the aftermarket turbos all spin.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    it just means its going to delay the aftermarket imo. its going to be harder to find a turbo company that's going to machine the turbine and comp wheels with opposite blade direction, especially if its low volume. with the n63, since the turbos spin 'normally' changing the chra out to a ceramic ball-bearing or like product will be much easier. thats all im really saying, that the s63 is going to be harder to push past the turbo limit, that when you crave even more power than the stock chra can muster (probably turbine side first, inefficiency at high revs and induced back pressure) it will be easier to attain on the n63, but i suppose time will tell huh?
    People will likely just skip the S63 turbos and go straight to big turbos.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    thanks for the directed reply, my rebuttal to your point is you cannot swap gt(x) series turbos with the s63, the dme will never have it afaik. however, with the n63, you can swap (of course with proper hardware and tuning) to garrett or precision series turbos, chras, etc because they spin normally, and the way the aftermarket turbos all spin.
    Why is the way the stock turbos spin such a big deal though?

  18. #93
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    People will likely just skip the S63 turbos and go straight to big turbos.
    afaik, you cant just go to big turbo on the s63, it requires much more work than the n63 is what im saying, when going for huge power.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why is the way the stock turbos spin such a big deal though?
    i wish i was a full fledged engineer and could easily answer this question for you, either for or against. i really cannot give you the proper educated answer without talking out of my ass. call or find someone who can and what ever info you attain put that in the paragraph Click here to enlarge
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  19. #94
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    afaik, you cant just go to big turbo on the s63, it requires much more work than the n63 is what im saying, when going for huge power.
    I was referring to the N63 which has been shown to accept larger turbos (Alpina).

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    i wish i was a full fledged engineer and could easily answer this question for you, either for or against. i really cannot give you the proper educated answer without talking out of my ass. call or find someone who can and what ever info you attain put that in the paragraph
    If you truly don't know then I'm not sure what you are using for your basis that anything should be changed or definitively stated. I still believe it is best to wait and see as it is far too early to tell.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why is the way the stock turbos spin such a big deal though?
    It's not. He's making it seem like it's some crazy hard and completely distinct system. The inlets and outlets are reversed on the compressor side. Swapping out turbos is not the crazy complicated task that they are telling you it is. Besides I couldn't care less what you can swap into an S63 as I have an N63. I will tell you that all these companies will tell you swapping turbos is a nightmare because they want to sell you an upgraded wheel and call it a day. As I said earlier that will be sufficient for most everybody and I bet you they'll cost like 5 grand(easy). Not a bad approach and will make keeping everything pretty stock super easy just not the only approach.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I was referring to the N63 which has been shown to accept larger turbos (Alpina).

    If you truly don't know then I'm not sure what you are using for your basis that anything should be changed or definitively stated. I still believe it is best to wait and see as it is far too early to tell.
    right, we all agree the n63 is very capable of going larger turbo/chra etc. sorry if i misunderstood, i saw s63 turbo and replied.

    i only wanted to help sticky, and if it meant letting the community know they're going to have a hard time swapping their n63 turbos with the s63, and that's all i knew on the matter, so be it, its still help and information right? better than a 'maybe'... it just leaves too many questions. i agree we're in the early stages and it is far too early to tell, the engine hasn't been out nearly as long as the n54 has been.
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  22. #97
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    It's not. He's making it seem like it's some crazy hard and completely distinct system. The inlets and outlets are reversed on the compressor side. Swapping out turbos is not the crazy complicated task that they are telling you it is. Besides I couldn't care less what you can swap into an S63 as I have an N63. I will tell you that all these companies will tell you swapping turbos is a nightmare because they want to sell you an upgraded wheel and call it a day. As I said earlier that will be sufficient for most everybody and I bet you they'll cost like 5 grand(easy). Not a bad approach and will make keeping everything pretty stock super easy just not the only approach.
    The upgraded wheels we posted from ALSA had the pricing on them but they weren't cheap.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    right, we all agree the n63 is very capable of going larger turbo/chra etc. sorry if i misunderstood, i saw s63 turbo and replied.

    i only wanted to help sticky, and if it meant letting the community know they're going to have a hard time swapping their n63 turbos with the s63, and that's all i knew on the matter, so be it, its still help and information right? better than maybe... i agree we're in the early stages and it is far too early to tell, the engine hasn't been out nearly as long as the n54 has been.
    It's all good man, keep us all thinking and questioning what is going on. You are helping, no sweat.

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    Look I'm pretty sure he's saying it can't be done because a company who is in the process of developing an upgrade said it couldn't be done. I spoke to them and they said no it can't be done I said what if I did this and that to make it work they said yeah that would work but would be more work and similar or higher cost than their upgrade and I agree. But can it be done? Of course its just probably not the best way.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I agree oddjob your helping and don't take it the wrong way if someone disagrees with you. I agree with your statement that it will be harder to put in S63 turbos on an N63 than to swap in another type of upgraded turbo or wheel with no discernible benefit.

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