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  1. #51
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    Perhaps HPF is using the same shortblock setup Taza made 1100+ with?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    You don't get it - I am sure my M50 stock block could do 1500 rwhp. I could fill the block 1/2 up with epoxy and go for broke. However, these are being marketed as 1200+ rwhp long blocks... they have never made 1200 rwhp they don't know that the pistons are good enough, rods are good enough, hell we don't know that the cranks are good enough. I have no doubt a steel sleeve will contain the pressure for a bit, but that's the least of the issues. Mtran continuous ripped on his car and the motor was severely damaged throughout. So they boasted his rebuild as more, bigger, better, stronger... then they turned it down by 100+ rwhp. They don't have a working setup for 1200 rwhp, its speculation. If you go by what Eagle says about their rods, a 4 cylinder BMW rod they make is good for 225 hp each (900 hp) - so we're to assume their 6 cyl kit will hold 1350 hp? GTFO. A lot of guys are turning over 820 hp on Eagle rods (myself included) but that doesn't mean I am about to trust them up to 1350. This is common sense.
    Not a long block being sold here. Also you can build me the strongest engine and I can blow it up with poor tuning. And it's easy to rate a short block to xxxx amount of all the individual components are rated above that number by a quality manufacturer and are properly selected. Eagle rods will not hold 1200hp I don't care what their rated at that's why I said quality manufacturers. In fact I'd like to know who they sourced their components from before we evaluate their claims. The Darton sleeves though are an excellent piece and will easily hold up.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Its calling for you to send ur crank, because they are providing them with the engine kit rated for 1200.
    Exactly right.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Any subsequent points are irrelevant. The topic is specifically that the block itself is 1200+ capable, which there is no reason to doubt, and that HPF is offering a complete shortblock package.

    I would be interested to learn what they rate the OEM crank to and their other crank options, etc. But this is all pretty clear and I have no doubt Darton knows what they are doing when sleeving an iron block. They may even know more about it than you.
    You've misunderstood them here sticky. Why would they rate their package by it's strongest component? It's supposed to be by the weakest and that is how you rate a package. If they give us a list of who made what and which of their products was used then we can better examine their claim but they are saying all of it is 1200whp capable whether they wrote the word short in there or not or else it would be the most deceptive marketing ever ! Which I'm sure it's not we just need all the info.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Yes, I do see shortblock in there, here let me highlight it again.

    Psst Sticky - how do you order a block with a compression ratio LOL.. unless it has pistons and rods and crank in it?

    Its a package. Its a shortblock. You're wrong. And they're blindly rating it.
    DING DING! You are indeed correct Jon. On all points thus far.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They are providing you with a 1200 capable block, that doesn't mean the crank is rated at 1200 whp. They say nothing about the rods or crank being tested or 1200 whp capable, just how strong these sleeved blocks are.

    This is an important distinction, it's ok to say oops, I missed that. No harm, no foul.
    As you said, it is indeed acceptable for you to say, "Oops, I missed that. No harm, no foul." Once you are ready to admit you do not understand what a short block is, or why HPF is rating it at a unknown number, maybe then we can make progress. Otherwise, it sounds like a situation for Capital Hill Click here to enlarge Also, why the **** would they sell a 1200whp block without the components? At that insanely inflated price, it is pretty obvious you are buying a 1200whp short block as the fricking ad states. Please, do explain what this means: "Option 2 (1000rwhp - STD Bore) - New OEM Block" vs "Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block" and additionally please explain how those are JUST THE BLOCK WHP NUMBERS, and not the SHORT BLOCK, as is being sold per the ad!! I must be confused, please, enlighten me.Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    doing just fine. 2 1/2 years and counting.
    So we can assume you installed The Ziptie?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    You've misunderstood them here sticky. Why would they rate their package by it's strongest component? It's supposed to be by the weakest and that is how you rate a package. If they give us a list of who made what and which of their products was used then we can better examine their claim but they are saying all of it is 1200whp capable whether they wrote the word short in there or not or else it would be the most deceptive marketing ever ! Which I'm sure it's not we just need all the info.
    Another person who actually can read. Excellent sir. You are fully correct, as Chris' post specified, they are selling WHP rated Shortblocks. Further more, Chris even specified that the 1200WHP blocks "will be good to 1200WHP easy" - How the heck will the motor support 1200WHP if ONLY the block is rated to that? Really Sticky?
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Not a long block being sold here. Also you can build me the strongest engine and I can blow it up with poor tuning. And it's easy to rate a short block to xxxx amount of all the individual components are rated above that number by a quality manufacturer and are properly selected. Eagle rods will not hold 1200hp I don't care what their rated at that's why I said quality manufacturers. In fact I'd like to know who they sourced their components from before we evaluate their claims. The Darton sleeves though are an excellent piece and will easily hold up.
    Right I know its not a longblock, but it is a shortblock (longblock = head etc.)


  7. #57
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    Anytime I've looked at buying assembled short blocks in past it has always been rated by the weakest component was capable of. i.e. http://www.importpartspro.com/st1blon.html Stock VQ sleeves are good until the 900whp range (the site says otherwise but do some research on My350z and you will see that the site is incorrect), yet this block is still rated to 650whp.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    Anytime I've looked at buying assembled short blocks in past it has always been rated by the weakest component was capable of. i.e. http://www.importpartspro.com/st1blon.html Stock VQ sleeves are good until the 900whp range (the site says otherwise but do some research on My350z and you will see that the site is incorrect), yet this block is still rated to 650whp.
    Right so they are advertising a 650 rwhp package, and make no mention of what the block "could" hold. That's typical - anytime you buy a crate motor they are rating the standard power capability of the motor. Same when buying a shortblock from any other place - the quoted power is the power supported by the package. It makes no sense to quote a block at 1200+ rwhp separate of a rotating assembly. I think Sticky is the only one who is confused on this though. I think HPF is advertising the PACKAGE as 1200+ RWHP which everyone seems to agree with. The problem is that they have no proven 1200+ RWHP on any component in that package. Regardless of what a darton sleeve can hold, the block holds the sleeve, the sleeve holes the piston, the piston is on the rod, the rod is on the crank - that whole assembly has never done that power. Don't advertise it as such.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jacobs323i Click here to enlarge
    lol this is kinda funny! Go team!
    This thread is so full of failure. Someone truly has a hard on for HPF. You can't even utilize 1,000 HP in an E46 M3 presently so who really cares to be honest.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    You've misunderstood them here sticky. Why would they rate their package by it's strongest component? It's supposed to be by the weakest and that is how you rate a package. If they give us a list of who made what and which of their products was used then we can better examine their claim but they are saying all of it is 1200whp capable whether they wrote the word short in there or not or else it would be the most deceptive marketing ever ! Which I'm sure it's not we just need all the info.
    However it is supposed to be rated is not my doing. HPF did what they did and marketed it the way they marketed it. Playing what if games and criticizing them on points that aren't applicable to what they stated is rather pointless and just looking to be negative because it is HPF.

    It isn't deceptive, it's written in straight English. Why people aren't understanding it I have no idea.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SiGmA_X Click here to enlarge
    At that insanely inflated price, it is pretty obvious you are buying a 1200whp short block as the fricking ad states. Please, do explain what this means: "Option 2 (1000rwhp - STD Bore) - New OEM Block" vs "Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block" and additionally please explain how those are JUST THE BLOCK WHP NUMBERS, and not the SHORT BLOCK, as is being sold per the ad!! I must be confused, please, enlighten me.
    Yes, you seem to be very confused. Why you want to hate HPF so badly for not doing anything wrong here other than stating their Darton sleeved blocks are strong I have no clue.

    Who is saying they aren't selling a package here for the price? They aren't ripping anyone off or trying to sneak something past you. Their ratings are clearly in reference to their blocks and they clearly are offering a shortblock package. What exactly is so difficult for you to understand?

    It isn't obvious you are buying a 1200 whp shortblock because they don't say you are buying a 1200 whp shortblock. They clearly state the block is 1200 whp capable, why can't you simply read?

    Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block
    1200 whp Darton Sleeved OEM Block. Simple... nothing stated about a 1200 whp capable shortblock as that would call the other components into question but the typical people are in such a hurry to hate on HPF they got carried away before even reading, lol.

    If you want HPF to rate the other parts, ask them to. That, or prove why their claim of 1200+ for a Darton sleeved OEM underbored iron block is wrong, which it likely is conservative.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Perhaps HPF is using the same shortblock setup Taza made 1100+ with?
    good question , but not sure he made 1100 rwhp !

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    This thread is so full of failure. Someone truly has a hard on for HPF. You can't even utilize 1,000 HP in an E46 M3 presently so who really cares to be honest.
    That's what they said about supras about 700 hp ago.


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    Sticky just so you know, about 6 people who have built/bought/dealt with shortblock packages have no confirmed you're wrong - if HPF didn't intend it that way, that's not how it's written and then thats a mistake on their part. No sense in trying to make it something its not. Its listed as a 1200 rwhp shortblock with a compression ratio and a machined bore size requiring a core crank or $900... which hasn't been proven. I still don't understand how you discard this - find me another builder that offers a horsepower rating that doesn't apply to the whole package but rather a single component. No one lists a motor as having 1200 rwhp capable heads with stock internals. Thats silly.


  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge


    When I spoked to Chris he told me the blocks were about 4 times as strong as stock when sleeved by Darton.
    Chris claims the material Darton uses is 4 times as HARD as the block material. major difference. check the original bfc thread.

    I agree with Jon: not tested or proven = don't claim

  16. #66
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    Yes don't claim. Walk the walk. Don't talk the walk hpf.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky just so you know, about 6 people who have built/bought/dealt with shortblock packages have no confirmed you're wrong - if HPF didn't intend it that way, that's not how it's written and then thats a mistake on their part. No sense in trying to make it something its not. Its listed as a 1200 rwhp shortblock with a compression ratio and a machined bore size requiring a core crank or $900... which hasn't been proven. I still don't understand how you discard this - find me another builder that offers a horsepower rating that doesn't apply to the whole package but rather a single component. No one lists a motor as having 1200 rwhp capable heads with stock internals. Thats silly.
    How exactly is what people have bought changing what HPF has written?

    We get it, others rate their shortblocks as complete. HPF went by what Darton told them based on the strength just for the block itself, nothing wrong with that. Why don't you just ask them what they rate the other parts to rather than really making misleading posts criticizing HPF who has done nothing wrong here?

    The price is listed for the complete short block. The HP capability is listed as for the block. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS for the last time. At no point do they specifically refer to 9.5:1 pistons as having supported 1200 whp.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    Chris claims the material Darton uses is 4 times as HARD as the block material. major difference. check the original bfc thread.
    Incorrect, or maybe he says that in another thread, but check my interview with Chris: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...sepower-Freaks

    HPF: We haven't been able to source the thicker blocks, we have tried sleeving blocks, which we have a sleeved block that is on its way back to us that is 4 times stronger than the standard block but we are still playing with the idea and we are going to try them both and see which one we go with.

    BB: The standard block is iron, and if you are sleeving it, it should almost take anything you throw at it, right?

    HPF: Well, the cylinder sleeves from Darton are 4 times stronger than the material you are replacing.
    That is exactly what I was told, block is 4 times stronger and the block HP capability is what is referenced. Notice he doesn't say anything about the complete shortblock, heads, crank, pistons, or anything else, other than the block?

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    You're dense. I'll give you that.

    Sticky - build me a 1200 rwhp with a 9:1 compression ratio with nothing inside it plz. Thanks.

    PS - have you ever actually BUILT anything? Or do you just post what you hear and think makes sense?

    PSS - I am selling eagle rods rods that are rated to 7200+ HP*. The bearings are machined precisely just for us. PM if interested.

    *The bearings are rated 7200+ HP, the rods are not.



    Wtf?


    Science.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - build me a 1200 rwhp with a 9:1 compression ratio with nothing inside it plz. Thanks.
    As soon as you learn how to read I'll get on it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    PS - have you ever actually BUILT anything? Or do you just post what you hear and think makes sense?
    Some people pay for things to be built or buy complete products. I wish I had a handmade TV, computer, house, and everything else just like you.

    Good for you dude, you built an old BMW in your driveway. Don't let that go to your head or anything and make sure you mention it whenever possible when it is completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

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    I didn't mention building my car. Let me quote you "As soon as you learn to read..." - I asked if YOU HAVE BUILT ANYTHING? Because it sounds like you don't know two $#@!s from two stones when it comes to motors and just quote E46fanatics and bimmerforums threads and ACT like you have some "in" with people. I was just joking about this today with another BMW builder who also agrees your wrong - enjoyed the thread and how persistent you are for telling people "whats what".

    Sounds like you've never been down this street before - you've got like 4 - 5 people in this thread telling you you're wrong. Oh well. Enjoy.

    Btw the only old part about my car is the chassis code. Everything else makes an E46 M3 look antiquated. I'd make you a fool talking about "old" cars with my ECU and CAN and all but you can't talk ECUs, can't talk motors, so what's the point really? Keep writing those checks for a car that doesn't run and tell people who are actually doing things how $#@! is done - that always works out lol.

    But, again, I wouldn't expect you to get that given you can't figure out how a shortblock is notated.


  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    I didn't mention building my car. Let me quote you "As soon as you learn to read..." - I asked if YOU HAVE BUILT ANYTHING?
    Oh of course, which no doubt leads to a long spiel about how you built your car in yet another thread derailing it to talk about you and your OMG amazing knowledge.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like you've never been down this street before - you've got like 4 - 5 people in this thread telling you you're wrong. Oh well. Enjoy.
    500 million people can all post it does not change what HPF wrote.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Btw the only old part about my car is the chassis code. Everything else makes an E46 M3 look antiquated. I'd go on about DTA with CAN and all but you can't talk ECUs, can't talk motors, so what's the point really?

    But, again, I wouldn't expect you to get that given you can't figure out how a shortblock is notated.
    Honestly, I don't care about your details as this isn't the thread for it.

    Why you and a couple others criticize HPF over everything I have no clue. There are times when HPF deserves it, this isn't it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what they did, you should constructively ask for supplemental information on the parts that go with the package if you desire it.

    The pattern with you seems to be you put down everything and anything else that you don't have attempting to justify some sort of superiority from working on an old BMW. Then you post photos and make the whole thread not concerning you about you. Yes, nice car, I like it as I am a BMW fan, but this is about HPF's new product.

    There is no need to look at this negatively whatsoever. There is also nothing wrong with HPF saying their Darton sleeved block can handle 1200+. Looking critically is one thing, constantly bashing especially when it is not warranted is another.

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    You seem to miss the entire conversation.

    Let's lay it down for Sticky one more time since he can't read his own forum - as others have said... along with me:

    Don't claim numbers you haven't proven no matter who says what or claims what - HPF did this, bad on them.
    Don't advertise a shortblock kit that is being listed by said capable horsepower number that has not been achieved - HPF did this, bad on them

    Ok but that's not what we're even talking about anymore, we are now talking about...

    Sticky does not understand that when you stick a crank, rods, pistons, bearings, etc., in a block and sell it with a "1200+ rwhp capable" tag, it is being advertised as such. And if they did not mean to do that, then they $#@!ed up their listing and should fix it. But, given how HPF markets $#@!, they absolutely meant to call it a 1200+ rwhp solution knowing no one is going to buy a $13k motor from them when there are a half dozen BETTER builders for cheaper. Cough, Chuck Stickley, cough.

    Its not my fault they make false/unproven claims... but I don't even care about that part. What is ultimately frustrating is that they have a kit of pistons, crank, rods and block for $13k with "1200+ rwhp" next to it and in your demented interpretation of that you are saying "They are only rating the block in (unproven) horsepower" - there's something wrong with you lol.

    I've given you examples of how you're failing this. Let's do another one. I am selling 3 gallon jugs of milk for $6*


    * Jug ships with 1 gallon of milk <--- retarded assumption


    All you do is regurgitate bull$#@! that you don't even understand. I feel sorry for you in a way.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Don't claim numbers you haven't proven no matter who says what or claims what - HPF did this, bad on them.
    You have not proven the Darton sleeved block can not handle the capacity quoted. Considering what the stock, unsleeved block hits Darton is very likely correct in the conservative figures they have provided for the sleeved block

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Don't advertise a shortblock kit that is being listed by said capable horsepower number that has not been achieved - HPF did this, bad on them
    HPF has to list things the way you want to see them? Who are you?

    They did absolutely nothing wrong.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky does not understand that when you stick a crank, rods, pistons, bearings, etc., in a block and sell it with a "1200+ rwhp capable" tag, it is being advertised as such.
    No, you don't seem to understand this:

    Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block
    does not equal:

    1200+rwhp capable crank, rods, pistons, bearings, etc.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Its not my fault they make false/unproven claims... but I don't even care about that part.
    What false claim? Have you established the Darton sleeved block is not 1200+ rwhp capable? Darton is wrong? HPF is wrong? Everyone is wrong but you? These companies do this for a living. Despite not having your blessing somehow they get by.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    What is ultimately frustrating is that they have a kit of pistons, crank, rods and block for $13k with "1200+ rwhp" next to it and in your demented interpretation
    What is frustrating is that they have to deal with people reading more into it like yourself. They list the block as capable of 1200+ which there is nothing wrong with since they are proud to now be sourcing OEM blocks. They then take the 1200+ capable sleeved Darton package and sell it a shortblock. The block is still 1200+ rwhp capable. This is exactly what Chris and I discussed was taking place in an interview a while back now. Read it, everything adds up, there is no conspiracy.

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    Who cares how much HP they're making when they don't make dick for torque, they can't control VANOS, they can't turn off the factory speed limiter (HINT: They don't know wtf they're doing to the stock ECU, ie., NOTHING), and they get raped on the street daily by cars like TRM cars making 300 hp less? A peaky car with a 2500 rpm powerband that has very little throttle control has got to be damn near impossible to drive, hence why they're pedaling it in the corners in all of their 'race' video's, and making up their time rocketing down the straights?

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