• Motortrend claims the Boss 302 mustang outlaps the E92 M3 around Laguna Seca?

      Now, don't get us wrong, we are very impressed with what Ford is doing lately. Honestly, we think BMW could learn a thing or two from them. Things like the factory supported supercharger setups for the Mustang 5.0 are amazing and the Ford Racing parts catalog makes the BMW performance parts offering look... well, pathetic. MotorTrend claims the Boss 302 laps Laguna Seca in 1:40.21 vs. the M3's 1:42.96. What were the tires used? Was the M3 a DCT? Were they tested on the same day? Are we to really believe the Boss 302 outlaps the Audi R8? Read below for the answers.

      What Ford is doing with the Mustang is excellent and we commend them. The M3 is stagnant and is being routinely beaten now by the competition such as the C63 which Mercedes improved tremendously with the P31 package. BMW seems content to rest on their laurels and not do anything to upgrade the M3 which is a shame. BMW is going soft and Ford is delivering better and better performance products for better money. The same with Mercedes and Audi seems to be gearing up for an assault as well.

      So what do we think of this? Well, the mustang was tested on R-compound tires, not apples to apples. Is the Boss 302 really about 4 seconds faster than the GT500? Car and Driver in the February 2011 issue tests the GT500 and the Mustang GT (not Boss) around VIR and the GT500 is almost 5 seconds faster on the same track, same day. The M3 being 2 seconds faster than the GT500 and the R8 almost a full second faster than the M3. Motortrend compared results from their database from different days with the M3 on street tires using a manual transmission but it is what it is. Congratulations for Ford for building a great car and it is about time for BMW to do something, anything, because we enthusiasts are more interested in lap times than efficient dynamics.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: Boss 302 vs M3 at Laguna Seca! started by Sinister M3 View original post
      Comments 92 Comments
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
        You guys are just mad because the mustang is winning.
        The mustang is losing. The Boss 302 has lost the first two races of the Continental Tire Series. What car did they lose to? The M3.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Haha, R compounds. That is hilarious. The Nissan GTR that Motor Trend tested at Laguna Seca was slower than the a Boss 302 time. Tells what tires will do.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
        I would do a boss with a radical cam and do ITB's longtubes full exhaust and call it a day
        Pretty awesome setup.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Haha, R compounds. That is hilarious. The Nissan GTR that Motor Trend tested at Laguna Seca was slower than the a Boss 302 time. Tells what tires will do.
        Laguna Seca is a technical track. It isn't fair to compare an R-compound to street tire.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Something that needs to be clarified.

        Did Ford use the Pzero summer tire or Corsa on this in the Laguna Seca version? They claim the car laps faster with the Corsas than it does with the summer tires but no lap times to substantiate it.

        I don't know. Ford showed up with a race car driver would they really not give the car the best rubber? Either way, BMW needs to step up their game.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        that's why i don't give a damn thing about MT , this is the same magazine that called Volt the car of the year , that's enough for me.
      1. Patrón's Avatar
        Patrón -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
        You guys are just mad because the mustang is winning.
        I'm not mad at all. I'd only be mad if I owned a mustang.
      1. GTR-Dad's Avatar
        GTR-Dad -
        Motortrend lacks credibility in my mind.

        I forget which cars they were comparing, but the one that WASN'T their favorite outperformed their darling in almost every measurable performance category, but still lost the comparison test.

        "How?" You ask... Good question.
        It was the 'gotta have it factor'. That was the subjective category that made the lower performing, but (apparantly) more desirable car the winner.

        I understand the current discussion is not a subjective or opinion-based outcome, but I will assert that any publication that will decide a comparison test on the 'gotta have it factor' will find ways to make sure their darling comes out on top. And domestic iron IS their darling. Pfffff.

        To date, my only Mustang / BMW comparison was a great track day battle between a Mustang GT with $15k of suspension and brakes and my 335 xi with a set of coilovers. Tires were high performance street rubber on both. It was too close to call after several laps, and a ton of fun!

        +1 to the props Sticky gives Ford for doing something truely special with the Mustang! It's just too bad to see that achievement cheapened by Motortrend-style comparisons.

        Dan
      1. lughed's Avatar
        lughed -
        It isnt anything new for a company to play a full deck vs there competitors bs hand to try and deceive the unknowing.

        Moral of the story is BMW needs to get back to basics! The M5 is much better at being what its suppose to be than the current M3 is. But you khow what, BMW doesnt seem to give a $#@! so maybe an ass kicking from a much lesser car is what they need to snap them back to reality. Until then, I can care less about what car beats a BMW or how it does it.
      1. DBFIU's Avatar
        DBFIU -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Patrón Click here to enlarge
        I'm not mad at all. I'd only be mad if I owned a mustang.
        Pompous talk. I'm sure you aren't mad at BMW for making FWD turd-cars, keep fondling the badge.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        CSL lapped in 7:50... faster than the E92 M3 and largely due to the tires.
        The semi slick tires CSL used back then were not brought up in bold either...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
        Moral of the story is BMW needs to get back to basics! The M5 is much better at being what its suppose to be than the current M3 is. But you khow what, BMW doesnt seem to give a $#@! so maybe an ass kicking from a much lesser car is what they need to snap them back to reality. Until then, I can care less about what car beats a BMW or how it does it.
        Well said. I hope the competition will keep slapping BMW in the face until it wakes them up.
      1. lalvarez1284's Avatar
        lalvarez1284 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Something that needs to be clarified.

        Did Ford use the Pzero summer tire or Corsa on this in the Laguna Seca version? They claim the car laps faster with the Corsas than it does with the summer tires but no lap times to substantiate it.

        I don't know. Ford showed up with a race car driver would they really not give the car the best rubber? Either way, BMW needs to step up their game.
        You bring up a good point. The Boss 302 does not use R-compound tires. The "Laguna Seca" model which puts another second plus on the standard Boss 302 is the lucky recipient of those. The rampant display of ignorance within this thread in an attempt to somehow validate the difference in price between these two vehicles is somewhat surprising. The Boss IS the faster car. The M3 IS the nicer car. Those two do not have to go hand in hand. What it boils down to is if you have the means of owning and maintaining the M3 and prefer that kind of vehicle you should buy the M3.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lalvarez1284 Click here to enlarge
        You bring up a good point. The Boss 302 does not use R-compound tires. The "Laguna Seca" model which puts another second plus on the standard Boss 302 is the lucky recipient of those. The rampant display of ignorance within this thread in an attempt to somehow validate the difference in price between these two vehicles is somewhat surprising. The Boss IS the faster car. The M3 IS the nicer car. Those two do not have to go hand in hand. What it boils down to is if you have the means of owning and maintaining the M3 and prefer that kind of vehicle you should buy the M3.
        This is what needs clarification as a lot of people are calling BS on these times. They said the Laguna Seca laps faster, but posted no lap time. Well, then how do they know? Shouldn't they have a lap time to clarify? Also, they reached a good ET and trap the kind you would likely need those R-compounds to hit. If you compare to the Insideline Numbers for the Laguna Seca this car is hitting a better elapsed time, 0-60, and MPH. How is it doing that on supposedly worse street rubber?

        They are great vehicles and I consider the M3 to be a different class of car. As an M3 owner, the Boss 302 is not something I would consider vs. the M3. Nice to see the M3 being used as the benchmark though, by everyone, even though this is a car on the market for 3 years with no updates.
      1. lughed's Avatar
        lughed -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        that's why i don't give a damn thing about MT , this is the same magazine that called Volt the car of the year , that's enough for me.
        Agreed. I listen to nothing from motortrend since the 90's when they compared the Integra type R to the 325i and then had the nerve to claim the Type R has taken down BMW's top mid-size sport car. Psss
      1. lalvarez1284's Avatar
        lalvarez1284 -
        It's not MotorTrend but if you read through the article... The "Laguna Seca" in the hands of Road&Track ran 1:39.5 around Laguna Seca. Skepticism of the validity of the Boss 302 times should be laid to rest. Ford's claims of the "Laguna Seca" being a second faster than the standard Boss and it's non-R-compound tires reign true.
        http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/ca...02-laguna-seca
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lalvarez1284 Click here to enlarge
        The "Laguna Seca" in the hands of Road&Track ran 1:39.5 around Laguna Seca. Skepticism of the validity of the Boss 302 times should be laid to rest.
        Yep, but that is the problem it is a difference source on a different day right? There was no lap time as a reference point in the MotorTrend article. Let's take that Road and Track time as valid though and the time sure is unfomfortable close to the Motortrend time, isn't it? Almost like the same car with the same specs.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lalvarez1284 Click here to enlarge
        Ford's claims of the "Laguna Seca" being a second faster than the standard Boss and it's non-R-compound tires reign true.
        I'll take them at their word, but they would have strengthened their case and removed all this speculation by showing the difference between the Laguna Seca and the standard car. I will remain skeptical but either way the car is a great achievement.
      1. lalvarez1284's Avatar
        lalvarez1284 -
        The standard Boss 302 in the MotorTrend article was timed with a bonafide race car driver in 2010 Rolex 24hrs Daytona GT class winner Jonathan Bomarito behind the wheel on a perfect lap. For ANY driver to pull the better part of a second out of the car with the Laguna Seca is NOT a small feat. I feel it fair to assume that even the most seasoned magazine driver would be lucky to be within a few tenths of Jonathan Bomarito in a similarly equipped vehicle. To imply that these two vehicles were tested at different times so a comparison is impossible is a stretch. These reviews are all being conducted within days if not hours of each other. I'll concede that MotorTrend acceleration times tend to be lower than most sources across the board. This can probably be attributed to a different approach at testing these parameters (surface, timing system, burn out or not.) These variances have not applied to their lap times in my best observation to date. In my eyes, both times are legit and this car just plain rips. Anyways.... this list really puts things into perspective on just how good this car is on a race track...
        http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lalvarez1284 Click here to enlarge
        The standard Boss 302 in the MotorTrend article was timed with a bonafide race car driver in 2010 Rolex 24hrs Daytona GT class winner Jonathan Bomarito behind the wheel on a perfect lap.
        Yep, another good factor to point out as comparing this drivers lap times to a driver who is not a GT class winner on a different day is a bit ridiculous.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lalvarez1284 Click here to enlarge
        To imply that these two vehicles were tested at different times so a comparison is impossible is a stretch. These reviews are all being conducted within days if not hours of each other.
        No, the M3 times were hit even months earlier I believe, not hours. If they were within hours that would further mitigate variables. We can draw a comparison and get some insight, sure, but not a definitive answer.
      1. WillieSM's Avatar
        WillieSM -
        Why is everyone so uptight? I am a huge Bimmer fan and also had a sn95 5.0 as my first car and have been watching the new 5.0 closely.
        First off, Ford created the BOSS to reach numbers to directly say they could beat an M3. What a Compliment!
        Second, Why is everyone BSing about whether the M3 was DCT. That would give the M3 the advantage, it should be the manual version.
        Third, ok fine everyone is right about the R compound.

        And keep this in mind. How much money do you have to waste to modify an M3 just for a few hps. While the stock 5.0 can handle 600hp, (ford even sells a supercharger kit for up to 625hp), i am scared to know what the forged internals of the BOSS can handle.

        BTW these 2 arent competitors; different market.

        Actually what i want to see is a M1 jb3 and downpipe lap times!!! Click here to enlarge