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    • The other side of the story regarding Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter's) forced induction M5 build/motor issues


      Here is the other side of the story that includes pieces from Bavarian Solutions perspective. This information was sent to BimmerBoost anonymously and we will present the information to you to come to your own conclusion. Thus far, Bavarian Solutions has been relatively quiet while many have taken the owners side some having jumped to conclusions. What we present here is inside information to balance out what was been written thus far and provide additional insight which members have requested.

      The owner of the car, Peter, goes by the name Herrubermensch and is a financial/bankruptcy attorney. What we have learned is the owner has bluffed about the motor being disassembled for "forensic" evidence and the car is currently sitting as is at Northeast Motorsports. The owner has been difficult to please and has thrown his weight around as an "attorney" from the beginning. His deal for the built motor was, well, quite the deal. How good? Almost cost on parts and very little on discounted labor. He was in constant communication with Dave at Bavarian Solutions and received quick responses to all of his frequent inquiries, any time of day. We have been told he is difficult to please and demands things to be done his way. Some would describe this as suffering from "attorney syndrome." He makes it very clear to everyone he is an attorney, how important his firm is, how much they bill, etc.

      Now, it is true the first built motor was blown and Bavarian Solutions rebuilt it. However, the cause of the failure has been determined to be a defective bank one VANOS unit. Mike from NorthEast Motorsports verified that the defect caused a binding issue. It would seem Peter (the owner of the car in question) agrees with this assessment. When the motor was spun by hand it would lock and when this happens it causes the pistons to collide with the valves which is obviously not a good thing. Bavarian Solutions received blame for this motor although it is my opinion it should be directed at Dr. Vanos. Bavarian Solutions has stayed out of it and is not slinging mud at anyone even though they are taking heat for a failure caused by something which was not their responsibility.

      The second failure is either a result of the tuner or the installation. We do not definitively know yet as the motor has not been taken apart to determine the point of failure. We will not delve into the pricing and such but the second motor was not done for free and that is the most we can say about that. Due to the VANOS issue not being sorted they decided not to install it on the second motor. There are a couple videos on M5board that show the motor running fine prior to the tuning. There was nothing wrong with the motor at this point except for a rough idle obviously due to the cams not being calibrated. When the oil was analyzed from the second failure after the tuning, there was no copper in it which has to do with the bearings. There was only aluminum and since Bavarian Solutions uses these pistons in their forced induction builds they are familiar what the results look like due to a piston failure from lack of fuel which is what they believe accounts for the aluminum in the oil.

      The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward.

      So what is the true story here? Well, you decide, but our job is to provide you all the pieces. The first failure it would not appear was the fault of Bavarian Solutions and all parties decided to stay away from the VANOS for a reason it would seem. No copper in the oil of the second failure shows it likely was not a build issue. Dave the owner of Bavarian Solutions offered to take the motor apart at his cost to determine the cause of failure. That speaks of confidence in the build and of a courtesy to the customer even though Bavarian Solutions does not have to do this by any means. In addition, Dave offered to do this disassembly in front of Peter with any witnesses he wished to show there was nothing to hide. Peter has not taken Bavarian Solutions up on this and instead has decided to flaunt his legal muscle.

      We will keep you updated on any additional developments but this is where things currently stand.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter) M5 forced induction build - blown motor started by BigM62 View original post
      Comments 343 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        but i dont think sticky will be able to accept that. im sure he will find another excuse, along with his followers on here.
        Accept what? The truth? Why don't you wait and see what the result is first before jumping to conclusions?

        The owner in question has been told he is free to share whatever he wants to and it won't be deleted or locked like in other places.

        Obviously you are very new here and have no clue how this forum works so I suggest you go back to the popcorn since you stated yourself you have nothing to add. Let the big boys talk and this can stay on topic. If we need any advice on how to blow up an S62 we'll be sure to ask you.
      1. J.J.'s Avatar
        J.J. -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        then the balls in daves park now, tell him to get off his ass and be there if he cares enough. he had enough time to feed myself and others bull$#@! last august. im sure he can find time to be at VAC for a day.

        if he's not going, then there is nothing to bicker about. if it turns out that bavarian destruction F'd up, then thats what the final verdict will be. but i dont think sticky will be able to accept that. im sure he will find another excuse, along with his followers on here.

        with the amount of blatant lies ive heard from dave, i would doubt him more then anyone else. ask dave how he first states he is finishing installing the vanos, then next phone call he's rushing to put the engine in his van during the rain...but he calls 2 hours later saying he doesnt even have the tensioner for the cylinder head...thats over a span of roughly 6 hours. blatant lies? yes sir

        should i go on?

        Wait wait....aren't you the guy that took apart the car and threw all the bolts and brackets into one box ? Then when it was time to re assemble they had to spend hours sifting through to try to figure it all out. Sounds like you aren't so perfect either.
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam -
        I have a couple of questions for Peter if you don't mind answering. How long did the motor run before you began tuning? Did you run some type of break in procedure on the dyno before commencing with the real tuning? What type of pistons were used(what alloy)? Why did you did you tune idle then full load instead of cold start, idle, partial load and then full load? I have many more but these are the most pertinent I guess. Thanks
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        "Let's be clear. I drove it very conservatively from NEM to Rogue. It did not drive well at all, though I suspected that was because the idle had not been adjusted to deal with the vanos delete. Then we put it on the dyno. We did something like 5-6 pulls before the "pop." On each pull, from the very first one, something was keeping the engine from spinning freely, particularly beyond 6600 rpm. There was this increasing restriction on the engine's ability to spin."

        I do not wish to bring this up again, but I do not understand, Peter. You drove your M5 X amount of miles from A to B, felt it did not run right, and then proceeded to put the car on a dyno for 5 pulls? I am not the sharpest tack in the shed by any means, and I only have a degree from University of San Diego and Oxford, but do you not see what is wrong with that scenario?
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
        Who in their right mind would finish assembling an engine without checking to make sure it rotates with little restriction?
        bavarian solution clearly, but everyone seems to overlook that detail. funny huh?
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Accept what? The truth? Why don't you wait and see what the result is first before jumping to conclusions?

        The owner in question has been told he is free to share whatever he wants to and it won't be deleted or locked like in other places.

        Obviously you are very new here and have no clue how this forum works so I suggest you go back to the popcorn since you stated yourself you have nothing to add. Let the big boys talk and this can stay on topic. If we need any advice on how to blow up an S62 we'll be sure to ask you.
        you are clearly a bavarian solution fanboy. so can you explain to me, why did bavarian solution miss something simple as the engine binding the first time? somehow mike oneal at NE was able to rotate the engine and determine is wasnt rotating. so an ENGINE SHOP didnt rotate an engine after assembly the first time? talk about a rookie mistake if you ask me. im sure dave has some lies to cover that one up too. i recall bavarian solution saying the first time that it was a tensioner that had a bolt back out, what happened to that story from them? why do their stories keep changing?

        i do admire how you are quick to pick out the negatives, yup ive blown up an S62. but i can also build a S62 too, what can you do other then bicker online? buying a kit off the shelf, paying others to do your work, and acting like you know how it all works doesnt make you a big boy. hell i know soccer moms that can do that, doesnt mean anything though.

        try again with the personal shots

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jason Click here to enlarge
        Wait wait....aren't you the guy that took apart the car and threw all the bolts and brackets into one box ? Then when it was time to re assemble they had to spend hours sifting through to try to figure it all out. Sounds like you aren't so perfect either.
        yup sure am! want an autograph?

        but how does someone compare bolts(all of which i know exactly where they go) to this predicament? seems like you dont know how to compare apples to apples. several hours of time(of which could have been saved with a simple image) vs several months. perfect logic!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        bavarian solution clearly, but everyone seems to overlook that detail. funny huh?
        Yet the evidence of videos showing the car running before tuning say the exact opposite?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        "Let's be clear. I drove it very conservatively from NEM to Rogue. It did not drive well at all, though I suspected that was because the idle had not been adjusted to deal with the vanos delete. Then we put it on the dyno. We did something like 5-6 pulls before the "pop." On each pull, from the very first one, something was keeping the engine from spinning freely, particularly beyond 6600 rpm. There was this increasing restriction on the engine's ability to spin."

        I do not wish to bring this up again, but I do not understand, Peter. You drove your M5 X amount of miles from A to B, felt it did not run right, and then proceeded to put the car on a dyno for 5 pulls? I am not the sharpest tack in the shed by any means, and I only have a degree from University of San Diego and Oxford, but do you not see what is wrong with that scenario?
        You make a great point.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        you are clearly a bavarian solution fanboy. so can you explain to me, why did bavarian solution miss something simple as the engine binding the first time? somehow mike oneal at NE was able to rotate the engine and determine is wasnt rotating. so an ENGINE SHOP didnt rotate an engine after assembly the first time? talk about a rookie mistake if you ask me. im sure dave has some lies to cover that one up too. i recall bavarian solution saying the first time that it was a tensioner that had a bolt back out, what happened to that story from them? why do their stories keep changing?
        You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or to whom. I'm not sure how many times it needs to be written that any and all details regarding the motor are welcome to be posted and that each side is more than allowed to have their say. Sounds like that makes me a fan of free speech and getting the truth for the benefit of the community. The tone of the thread calmed down considerably until you decided to try to fan flames that aren't even there. So why don't you just relax since you continue to comment without even knowing what you are talking about? Maybe practice a few more weak insults in the test section so you can come back with something good?

        The details on the first failure were posted pages back, READ THEM. Then tell all of us why issues with the Vanos are the fault of Bavarian Solutions.

        Their stories keep changing? Support it, with facts. Show us all these different stories because it would seem their stance as well as Peter's is that the Vanos failure was responsible which is why it was left off the second motor. This is something all parties agree on.

        Sorry, I don't put much stock in the opinion of a guy who throws all his motor parts in a box and tries the LEGOS approach to building a motor. I don't think anyone else does either.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        i do admire how you are quick to pick out the negatives, yup ive blown up an S62. but i can also build a S62 too, what can you do other then bicker online? buying a kit off the shelf, paying others to do your work, and acting like you know how it all works doesnt make you a big boy. hell i know soccer moms that can do that, doesnt mean anything though.
        I'm sorry, quick to pick out negatives? You are the one who comes in here doing nothing but insulting everyone, far from objective.

        Off the shelf kit? You have no clue what you are talking about yet again. No offense, but I would much rather pay someone to build me a DCT transmission than have you throw the pieces in a box and then try to figure out how to put them together. Can you build a DCT? What do you know about the DCT? What do you know about the S65? Nothing, so let's get on topic and if you wish to learn about something which you have no knowledge of go check the respective forum sections for those topics. This thread isn't for you to hide your embarrassment over your basic mistakes and lash out at others. It isn't about you period, so it shall get back on topic.
      1. jacobs323i's Avatar
        jacobs323i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        "Let's be clear. I drove it very conservatively from NEM to Rogue. It did not drive well at all, though I suspected that was because the idle had not been adjusted to deal with the vanos delete. Then we put it on the dyno. We did something like 5-6 pulls before the "pop." On each pull, from the very first one, something was keeping the engine from spinning freely, particularly beyond 6600 rpm. There was this increasing restriction on the engine's ability to spin."

        I do not wish to bring this up again, but I do not understand, Peter. You drove your M5 X amount of miles from A to B, felt it did not run right, and then proceeded to put the car on a dyno for 5 pulls? I am not the sharpest tack in the shed by any means, and I only have a degree from University of San Diego and Oxford, but do you not see what is wrong with that scenario?
        Agreed this hits the nail on the head, i was pre law for awhile no where near the legal mind that you are Herr! But this points to negligence on your part if you drove the car and it was not running right and you then had the car tuned! Not only was that beyond stupid! But it shows that you are liable for your own misfortune, that is pretty cut an dry! Now if you would have had brought the car back and said it is not running right fix it, and they did not they would be liable. But here it is a case of your negligence, now yes if it was not running right that is their fault but you screwed yourself when you tried to tune it anyways therefore placing the negligence back on your self. I am sorry that this happened to you, i have gone through the same thing only difference is i had the car fixed by someone else before trying to tune it!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Some of this reminds me of the Evan/HPF situation.

        These are good people and good companies. I think if we all step back a bit an amicable resolution can be had.

        Let's see what is inside the motor as there is so much finger pointing going on that we just definitively do not know the exact reasons at this point.
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        I hate this Mr.X $#@!. We need his damn name!! Lol
        what is he the YODA of e39m5s. If so how come no monster twin turbo set??? Even a gnarly SC setup?

        I think kalis had the best one. Pretty sure ran great. Everthing else seems to suck. So many nice M5s including the OP. They need a solid monster kit ASAP. OT sorry
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Some of this reminds me of the Evan/HPF situation.

        These are good people and good companies. I think if we all step back a bit an amicable resolution can be had.

        Let's see what is inside the motor as there is so much finger pointing going on that we just definitively do not know the exact reasons at this point.
        Very good suggestion Sticky. But, I went back over all the posts, and quite frankly, there is not much finger pointing going on except for a few posts. However, it does appear someone is waving a very big stick into the wind.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        there is not much finger pointing going on except for a few posts. However, it does appear someone is waving a very big stick into the wind.
        True, and this will all be answered.

        With the exception of one individual, it has been mature and restrained. It's a tough situation no doubt, but I think Peter has been quite respectful here and I commend his tone.
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        True, and this will all be answered.

        With the exception of one individual, it has been mature and restrained. It's a tough situation no doubt, but I think Peter has been quite respectful here and I commend his tone.

        This. We are all not perfect, and at times I can see Peter clearly getting a bit heated but he has stated his end of his story the best way possible even if others do not agree.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        True dat ^. Even if most( or some) do not agree with Peter and his methods, I can condone his behavior and manner.
      1. THATDONFC's Avatar
        THATDONFC -
        Are the results of the tear down in? We are all anxious to know the cause of the failure!
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
        Are the results of the tear down in? We are all anxious to know the cause of the failure!
        They found out it was your fault. Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
      1. THATDONFC's Avatar
        THATDONFC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        They found out it was your fault. Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
        Damn it! I shouldn't have opened my mouth!
      1. THATDONFC's Avatar
        THATDONFC -
        Updates? You are really killing me here!