• The other side of the story regarding Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter's) forced induction M5 build/motor issues


      Here is the other side of the story that includes pieces from Bavarian Solutions perspective. This information was sent to BimmerBoost anonymously and we will present the information to you to come to your own conclusion. Thus far, Bavarian Solutions has been relatively quiet while many have taken the owners side some having jumped to conclusions. What we present here is inside information to balance out what was been written thus far and provide additional insight which members have requested.

      The owner of the car, Peter, goes by the name Herrubermensch and is a financial/bankruptcy attorney. What we have learned is the owner has bluffed about the motor being disassembled for "forensic" evidence and the car is currently sitting as is at Northeast Motorsports. The owner has been difficult to please and has thrown his weight around as an "attorney" from the beginning. His deal for the built motor was, well, quite the deal. How good? Almost cost on parts and very little on discounted labor. He was in constant communication with Dave at Bavarian Solutions and received quick responses to all of his frequent inquiries, any time of day. We have been told he is difficult to please and demands things to be done his way. Some would describe this as suffering from "attorney syndrome." He makes it very clear to everyone he is an attorney, how important his firm is, how much they bill, etc.

      Now, it is true the first built motor was blown and Bavarian Solutions rebuilt it. However, the cause of the failure has been determined to be a defective bank one VANOS unit. Mike from NorthEast Motorsports verified that the defect caused a binding issue. It would seem Peter (the owner of the car in question) agrees with this assessment. When the motor was spun by hand it would lock and when this happens it causes the pistons to collide with the valves which is obviously not a good thing. Bavarian Solutions received blame for this motor although it is my opinion it should be directed at Dr. Vanos. Bavarian Solutions has stayed out of it and is not slinging mud at anyone even though they are taking heat for a failure caused by something which was not their responsibility.

      The second failure is either a result of the tuner or the installation. We do not definitively know yet as the motor has not been taken apart to determine the point of failure. We will not delve into the pricing and such but the second motor was not done for free and that is the most we can say about that. Due to the VANOS issue not being sorted they decided not to install it on the second motor. There are a couple videos on M5board that show the motor running fine prior to the tuning. There was nothing wrong with the motor at this point except for a rough idle obviously due to the cams not being calibrated. When the oil was analyzed from the second failure after the tuning, there was no copper in it which has to do with the bearings. There was only aluminum and since Bavarian Solutions uses these pistons in their forced induction builds they are familiar what the results look like due to a piston failure from lack of fuel which is what they believe accounts for the aluminum in the oil.

      The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward.

      So what is the true story here? Well, you decide, but our job is to provide you all the pieces. The first failure it would not appear was the fault of Bavarian Solutions and all parties decided to stay away from the VANOS for a reason it would seem. No copper in the oil of the second failure shows it likely was not a build issue. Dave the owner of Bavarian Solutions offered to take the motor apart at his cost to determine the cause of failure. That speaks of confidence in the build and of a courtesy to the customer even though Bavarian Solutions does not have to do this by any means. In addition, Dave offered to do this disassembly in front of Peter with any witnesses he wished to show there was nothing to hide. Peter has not taken Bavarian Solutions up on this and instead has decided to flaunt his legal muscle.

      We will keep you updated on any additional developments but this is where things currently stand.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter) M5 forced induction build - blown motor started by BigM62 View original post
      Comments 343 Comments
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
        Funny thing, his newest motor was built by Raza (aka DallasM5, or tradin1), who used to get so much $#@! on M5Board. Now that everyone's seen that he, a college student, has built two of these motors successfully while other established companies have not, some people are kinda eating what they've said. Although he might not be the most personable to some, he's doing something right.


        I'm just in for the numbers. That's all I care about.
        But if I'm not mistaken with his other build he was going all out and doing something that hasn't been done before right? That's always gonna be different to doing what has been done plenty of times on that motor. I mean he is targeting 650whp with a fully built motor and ported head? I would think the stock motor would be good for that. Don't know a whole lot about the S62 but there are plenty of stock V8's who are handling that or more without issues so it just seems like a waste to leave it there.
      1. Bimmerbear's Avatar
        Bimmerbear -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
        But if I'm not mistaken with his other build he was going all out and doing something that hasn't been done before right? That's always gonna be different to doing what has been done plenty of times on that motor. I mean he is targeting 650whp with a fully built motor and ported head? I would think the stock motor would be good for that. Don't know a whole lot about the S62 but there are plenty of stock V8's who are handling that or more without issues so it just seems like a waste to leave it there.
        No, it had been done before. There was a company called Discovery Automotive that produced "the twins", two fully built S62s (sleeves, pistons, rods, everything) that were supercharged. One of them made 700 wheel, the other I don't know about but I would expect the same. There have also been a handful of other custom builds over the years that used the same stuff (built motors with big superchargers), but as far as I know, no supercharged S62 has been north of 700 wheel.

        http://www.discovery-automotive.com/...Content&id=137

        This is a gross summarization (not to mention I haven't read the threads in a while), but as far as Peter's car goes, Bavarian solutions built his first two motors. The first one went because of supposed VANOS mis-installation and BS offered to rebuild it for him a second time. The second motor went during tuning and the cause is unknown. BS decided not to deal with it a third time and Peter contracted DallasM5 to build his third motor along with its twin (in DallasM5's own car). Both of those are doing fine as of now. You can read about the whole 1st and 2nd messes here:

        http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ine-build.html

        http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ild-redux.html

        As far as the power levels go, stock motors can handle 6-8 psi regularly and still remain pretty reliable. I have no doubt you could push 10-12 psi on a stock motor with a rock solid tune and meth, but at that point you'd risk throwing a rod or cracking a piston in the long run.

        I'm with you though. I don't understand why these guys go through all the time, trouble, and money to build this motor and then only want to make 650 wheel from them. If I was in their position I would be shooting for the 1000 mark, but it wouldn't be with a supercharger.
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        bavarian destruction messed up both times, thats all im saying.

        bavarian destruction motor should be showing up at my casa soon.


        oh and fyi-im not shooting for 650whp, im shooting for 700whp minimum, and around 800whp. if $#@! on the car starts blowing up then ill revert back to the 700whp tune.

        finishing up fuel system as well as other stuff.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
        Funny thing, his newest motor was built by Raza (aka DallasM5, or tradin1), who used to get so much $#@! on M5Board. Now that everyone's seen that he, a college student, has built two of these motors successfully while other established companies have not, some people are kinda eating what they've said. Although he might not be the most personable to some, he's doing something right.

        I'm just in for the numbers. That's all I care about.
        I don't think he built his motor some other company did, right?

        Additionally, he didn't build his own motor from what I understand, but some companies did as well and he sort of took credit for it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
        No, it had been done before. There was a company called Discovery Automotive that produced "the twins", two fully built S62s (sleeves, pistons, rods, everything) that were supercharged. One of them made 700 wheel, the other I don't know about but I would expect the same. There have also been a handful of other custom builds over the years that used the same stuff (built motors with big superchargers), but as far as I know, no supercharged S62 has been north of 700 wheel.
        Dude, did you miss the whole Discovery Automotive fiasco? http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...eir-reputation
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
        This is a gross summarization (not to mention I haven't read the threads in a while), but as far as Peter's car goes, Bavarian solutions built his first two motors. The first one went because of supposed VANOS mis-installation and BS offered to rebuild it for him a second time. The second motor went during tuning and the cause is unknown. BS decided not to deal with it a third time and Peter contracted DallasM5 to build his third motor along with its twin (in DallasM5's own car). Both of those are doing fine as of now. You can read about the whole 1st and 2nd messes here
        Uh, this kid contacted him not the other way around. Secondly, he made a bunch of mistakes on his own motor so I would be pretty surprised to see him take a leap of faith like that. He wrote Mike O'Neil at Northeast Motorsports is doing the motor build, right?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        bavarian destruction messed up both times, thats all im saying.
        I love how BavSol gets blamed for a tuner's mistakes.
      1. Bimmerbear's Avatar
        Bimmerbear -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Dude, did you miss the whole Discovery Automotive fiasco? http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...eir-reputation
        No, that's why I said there was a company called D/A.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Uh, this kid contacted him not the other way around. Secondly, he made a bunch of mistakes on his own motor so I would be pretty surprised to see him take a leap of faith like that. He wrote Mike O'Neil at Northeast Motorsports is doing the motor build, right?
        Regardless, they worked together to build the two newest motors. I was talking about the components; who actually assembled Peter's motor I don't know.
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't think he built his motor some other company did, right?

        Additionally, he didn't build his own motor from what I understand, but some companies did as well and he sort of took credit for it.
        no, the only person in the nation that feels i did i dont build my motors is smallpenis and yourself. rest of the nation, especially the m5 community who know me, know i do my own work. even bimmerbear will tell you i do my own work.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Uh, this kid contacted him not the other way around. Secondly, he made a bunch of mistakes on his own motor so I would be pretty surprised to see him take a leap of faith like that. He wrote Mike O'Neil at Northeast Motorsports is doing the motor build, right?
        made a bunch of mistakes? dude where do you get all these "facts" from, mistakes are a bavarian destruction signature. keep jerking off that bavarian destruction wang, those guys havent even posted on BFC since they blew up that engine twice. dave villanova shouldn't have tried to time that engine on his own. its not as simple as he thought it was.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I love how BavSol gets blamed for a tuner's mistakes.
        no peter contacted me, again the intrawebs doesnt convey the entire story. i know the entire stories.

        the fact is bavarian solution $#@!ed up, those vanos ARE ON MY ENGINE, you know the ones bavarian solution said that $#@!ed up. here's another funny fact, that same tune that bavarian solution said $#@!ed up peters engine, i ran for nearly 500 miles before changing to a different tune because of idle hunt.

        but you wont believe either because of your denial.

        ill leave you with some FACTS

        -bavarian solution $#@!ed up twice
        -i built 2 s62s in a week
        -neither engine has blown up
        -both engines have 2k+ miles
        -peter drove his to ohio and back
        -i drove mine to ohio but had fuel delivery issues because of a clogged filter/bad pump.
        -both will be the most powerful s62 documented
        -i have the blue discovery car at my house which is being completely redone and retuned
        -3 of the most powerful m5 will have gone through my hands
        -sticky doesnt do anything but talk noise and dig up false facts

        anything else you would like me to address?

        -R

        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
        Regardless, they worked together to build the two newest motors. I was talking about the components; who actually assembled Peter's motor I don't know.
        I see, you are saying the components are similar. But you made it sound like the kid was putting it together.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        no, the only person in the nation that feels i did i dont build my motors is smallpenis and yourself. rest of the nation, especially the m5 community who know me, know i do my own work. even bimmerbear will tell you i do my own work.
        I really haven't made a judgement just said I heard conflicting information. Considering how defensive you are getting, I think it may be accurate. So you sourced companies to do the work, big deal.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        made a bunch of mistakes? dude where do you get all these "facts" from, mistakes are a bavarian destruction signature. keep jerking off that bavarian destruction wang, those guys havent even posted on BFC since they blew up that engine twice. dave villanova shouldn't have tried to time that engine on his own. its not as simple as he thought it was.
        Who tuned the motor?

        I'm pretty sure I have seen posts on bf.c since then although I don't read that forum all too much.

        Didn't you get all your bolts mixed up because you didn't label them? Isn't that kind of amateur stuff?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        no peter contacted me, again the intrawebs doesnt convey the entire story. i know the entire stories.
        After you came in a thread swinging your nutsack about how you are the greatest engine builder in all the land and you would have his motor done in record time, right?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        the fact is bavarian solution $#@!ed up, those vanos ARE ON MY ENGINE, you know the ones bavarian solution said that $#@!ed up. here's another funny fact, that same tune that bavarian solution said $#@!ed up peters engine, i ran for nearly 500 miles before changing to a different tune because of idle hunt.
        Really? And which tune is that?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        but you wont believe either because of your denial.
        Actually, I would believe your facts about as much as I believe the Chuck Norris facts. You are intent on trying to look like you are a competent engine builder at the expense of companies who do this professionally. No offense, but you are just a kid playing with motors in his mom's garage. Please don't try to act like you know better than people who do this for a living.

        Going to your garage is possibly a step up from Shadowman's garage though.

        Let me know when your "will be the most powerful" actually is.
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        sticky lulz

        only thing better is smallpenis lulz
      1. Mikecoupe's Avatar
        Mikecoupe -
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      1. rt turbo's Avatar
        rt turbo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I love how BavSol gets blamed for a tuner's mistakes.
        I dont think this was a tuners mistake anymore.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        LOL Raza you didn't do your own work. You don't own a machine shop. You are such a bullshitter. In case you didn't put 1 and 1 together, I know Brandon and other guys down there - I was lulling as you were talking $#@! on me to my friend I've known for some 10 years thinking you were in the clear lol. Some of whom you "did your own work" with. LAWELZ. Keep buying M5 parts on your student loan money rofl.

        And no Sticky he didn't get bolts mixed up (well, I am sure he did at some point) - he DROPPED bolts (nuts, actually) INSIDE his motor... started it, and f-'d the entire thing up. "He" then machined and assembled "his own" S62s at "his shop" in "a week".

        THEN - he cocky-like drove his M5 laughing and rofl'ing to a car meet with his smug face hanging out the window and the car stranded him and he couldn't figure out why. My 21 year old sister jumpered her fuel pump relay and got the car going but this master mechanic S62-in-a-week builder couldn't figure out he had no fuel pressure?

        How's this sound for a "professional engine assembler"?:

        http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1465019

        "So which bearings are the thickest and thinnest" but is a professional with a machine shop. Wow. I know I know, its from June 2010 and you can EASILY become a MASTER engine assembler in a year... having not built high horsepower motors ... ever. LOL.

        Then he posts how his car stranding him was actually because of the fuel filter being clogged AND the tune "adapting too lean" (lul) and so he flashed another tune but now he "is having issues with the car running to rich because he has boost leaks". Boost leaks? I dunno, maybe I got lucky a couple dozen times but I've never built a car that has "boost leaks". Your couplers are on or they're not.

        Also this professional engine builder has posted on BFC with a thread titled, "What brand intercooler do you run?" lol.

        Wuuuuuuut

        There's a lot more than meets the eye.

        But oh well. Then there's the point where hes like "blah blah I am welding the new TiAL fitting onto my piping today" and a few members ask "Oh nice what welder do you use?" and no answer.

        But hey its cool to say you assemble your own engines and fab your own $#@! on the internet. Just hope no one local knows ya hahahaha.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        sticky lulz

        only thing better is smallpenis lulz
        Oh by the way anytime you want to run let me know. You can look at the back of my smallnuts we'll run pump gas my small inline 6 vs your might V8. I mean, that is of course if you're up to it with your "700 rwhp daily" as you told some people lol.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        I dont think this was a tuners mistake anymore.
        Why, what changed?

        I have a lot of the BavSol side that others don't see but they are just so intent on staying out of the mudslinging (good for them for being professional) that it is hard to present that info to you guys.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        THEN - he cocky-like drove his M5 laughing and rofl'ing to a car meet with his smug face hanging out the window and the car stranded him and he couldn't figure out why. My 21 year old sister jumpered her fuel pump relay and got the car going but this master mechanic S62-in-a-week builder couldn't figure out he had no fuel pressure?
        First, pics of sister.

        Secondly, if this is true as described that is more than a bit embarrassing.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        lol no pics of sister. It is true - Raza acts like such a know it all on the forums and then goes off asking questions to others. He dropped nuts in his intake and $#@!ed his motor up. Next thing ya know he's selling himself as the S62 specialist and has clueless check writers on E39 M5 "vouch" for him. We have yet to see his 700 rwhp daily driver but so far we have seen it break down hours from home leaving him stranded and now a ton of excuses why it hasn't been dyno'd and made power yet. However, since getting it to run, he's changed pullies and is putting on fuel rails and such on a car that has "boost leaks", "rich/lean conditions", and was supposedly not running because of a clogged fuel filter. Hey we all hit roadblocks, but its that much more lullable when its Raza who tells people at meets that his car has 700 rwhp.

        His latest update is that his oil cooler is going to keep his car from overheating in traffic. Uh, if the car is overheating in traffic, the oil cooler is not the solution.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        It is too funny to read on M5Bored, how grown men with E39 M5's actually believe Raza (aka-the nut dropper) and his Texas size cow dung. Jon has Raza down pretty good. And the reason a lot of M5Bored members believe in Raza is because they have more money than common sense.