• The other side of the story regarding Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter's) forced induction M5 build/motor issues


      Here is the other side of the story that includes pieces from Bavarian Solutions perspective. This information was sent to BimmerBoost anonymously and we will present the information to you to come to your own conclusion. Thus far, Bavarian Solutions has been relatively quiet while many have taken the owners side some having jumped to conclusions. What we present here is inside information to balance out what was been written thus far and provide additional insight which members have requested.

      The owner of the car, Peter, goes by the name Herrubermensch and is a financial/bankruptcy attorney. What we have learned is the owner has bluffed about the motor being disassembled for "forensic" evidence and the car is currently sitting as is at Northeast Motorsports. The owner has been difficult to please and has thrown his weight around as an "attorney" from the beginning. His deal for the built motor was, well, quite the deal. How good? Almost cost on parts and very little on discounted labor. He was in constant communication with Dave at Bavarian Solutions and received quick responses to all of his frequent inquiries, any time of day. We have been told he is difficult to please and demands things to be done his way. Some would describe this as suffering from "attorney syndrome." He makes it very clear to everyone he is an attorney, how important his firm is, how much they bill, etc.

      Now, it is true the first built motor was blown and Bavarian Solutions rebuilt it. However, the cause of the failure has been determined to be a defective bank one VANOS unit. Mike from NorthEast Motorsports verified that the defect caused a binding issue. It would seem Peter (the owner of the car in question) agrees with this assessment. When the motor was spun by hand it would lock and when this happens it causes the pistons to collide with the valves which is obviously not a good thing. Bavarian Solutions received blame for this motor although it is my opinion it should be directed at Dr. Vanos. Bavarian Solutions has stayed out of it and is not slinging mud at anyone even though they are taking heat for a failure caused by something which was not their responsibility.

      The second failure is either a result of the tuner or the installation. We do not definitively know yet as the motor has not been taken apart to determine the point of failure. We will not delve into the pricing and such but the second motor was not done for free and that is the most we can say about that. Due to the VANOS issue not being sorted they decided not to install it on the second motor. There are a couple videos on M5board that show the motor running fine prior to the tuning. There was nothing wrong with the motor at this point except for a rough idle obviously due to the cams not being calibrated. When the oil was analyzed from the second failure after the tuning, there was no copper in it which has to do with the bearings. There was only aluminum and since Bavarian Solutions uses these pistons in their forced induction builds they are familiar what the results look like due to a piston failure from lack of fuel which is what they believe accounts for the aluminum in the oil.

      The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward.

      So what is the true story here? Well, you decide, but our job is to provide you all the pieces. The first failure it would not appear was the fault of Bavarian Solutions and all parties decided to stay away from the VANOS for a reason it would seem. No copper in the oil of the second failure shows it likely was not a build issue. Dave the owner of Bavarian Solutions offered to take the motor apart at his cost to determine the cause of failure. That speaks of confidence in the build and of a courtesy to the customer even though Bavarian Solutions does not have to do this by any means. In addition, Dave offered to do this disassembly in front of Peter with any witnesses he wished to show there was nothing to hide. Peter has not taken Bavarian Solutions up on this and instead has decided to flaunt his legal muscle.

      We will keep you updated on any additional developments but this is where things currently stand.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter) M5 forced induction build - blown motor started by BigM62 View original post
      Comments 343 Comments
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        oh boy

        LOL!!!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        oh boy

        LOL!!!
        Welcome... and quit the beauty you have there in your sig.

        Would like to see a thread to explain that FMIC and blower Click here to enlarge
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Welcome... and quit the beauty you have there in your sig.

        Would like to see a thread to explain that FMIC and blower Click here to enlarge
        meh its nothing special, im just here with my popcorn reading all the posts from individuals that have no idea of the entire story...you can say im here for the lulz.
        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        meh its nothing special, im just here with my popcorn reading all the posts from individuals that have no idea of the entire story...you can say im here for the lulz.
        Click here to enlarge
        Well, would be great for you to be here for more than to laugh at misfortune.

        Adding to the S62 knowledge base would be great. Create a thread if you want on your build, would be appreciated.
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well, would be great for you to be here for more than to laugh at misfortune.

        Adding to the S62 knowledge base would be great. Create a thread if you want on your build, would be appreciated.
        i wouldnt laugh at peters misfortune, we're pretty good friends...you could call me young padawan. Click here to enlarge

        adding to the S62 knowledge base...haha now there's something new!

        btw i think Mr. X did that Gintani tune too, just like he did ESS. may want to reconsider your view on things, im just sayyin'.

        dont believe me? ask AJ why he has a supercharged M5 tune, but not an Alpha-N N/A tune?

        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        btw i think Mr. X did that Gintani tune too, just like he did ESS. may want to reconsider your view on things, im just sayyin'.
        You are sorely mistaken and what tune are you referring to anyway?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        dont believe me? ask AJ why he has a supercharged M5 tune, but not an Alpha-N N/A tune?
        Ask AJ? Haha, last time I spoke to AJ he was threatening to hurt/sue me and backed off real fast after learning his lesson.

        I don't consider AJ a valid source on... well, anything.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        adding to the S62 knowledge base...haha now there's something new!
        If you have nothing to add, I understand.
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If you have nothing to add, I understand.
        i wish i could, but with the posters in this thread, all my knowledge would be sub-par at best. my kit was put together in my garage, nothing fancy.

        back to the popcorn.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        i wish i could, but with the posters in this thread, all my knowledge would be sub-par at best. my kit was put together in my garage, nothing fancy.
        Once again I was not referring to this thread but about your vehicle, no worries.
      1. herrubermensch's Avatar
        herrubermensch -
        I do not have to prove the precise cause of the engine failure in order to prove breach of contract and breach of warranty, Joseph; you should know that. Supervening cause is an affirmative defense, and Dave would have the burden of proof on that issue, not me. Anyway, I appreciate your input, and time will tell.

        --Peter
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Once again I was not referring to this thread but about your vehicle, no worries.
        i may share in the near future.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        I do not have to prove the precise cause of the engine failure in order to prove breach of contract and breach of warranty, Joseph; you should know that.
        Oh on the contrary, you sure do. Even though I do not have the contract in front of me you have stated you were promised a properly running built motor. That built motor was delivered. After other parties touched it such as Mr. X there were issues. I also believe Mike at NorthEast Motorsports was involved as well during the install which would introduce a fourth variable.

        I wish you the best and all the parties involved. I think this can all be handled reasonably well to the satisfaction of everyone involved. No need to try this in "internet" court so to speak. I wish you luck and obviously Bimmerboost will be following this. You are always more than free to state your side.
      1. herrubermensch's Avatar
        herrubermensch -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Oh on the contrary, you sure do. Even though I do not have the contract in front of me you have stated you were promised a properly running built motor. That built motor was delivered. After other parties touched it such as Mr. X there were issues. I also believe Mike at NorthEast Motorsports was involved as well during the install which would introduce a fourth variable.

        I wish you the best and all the parties involved. I think this can all be handled reasonably well to the satisfaction of everyone involved. No need to try this in "internet" court so to speak. I wish you luck and obviously Bimmerboost will be following this. You are always more than free to state your side.
        Thanks for the well wishes. Just to be clear: Dave never delivered a properly running engine. It never ran properly. Period. That's the breach. If he wants to try to establish that it's failure to run properly was due to a supervening cause, that is something on which he has the burden of proof at trial by a preponderance of the evidence.

        My principal concern, contrary to the tenor of this thread (which my 14 year old son had to tell me about), is that of getting my engine running and then running at something close to the power levels previously intended. VAC is doing that for me, and my hope is that once it does so and the costs are liquidated, Dave and I can reach an accommodation. If not, that will be unfortunate.

        --Peter
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        Dave never delivered a properly running engine. It never ran properly. Period. That's the breach
        I believe this is the point of contention that has not been proven. It will take a disassembly to prove your view. At this point, it is simply your opinion.

        If in fact it is Bavarian Solutions fault and that is completely proven, I definitely believe you should be compensated according to what was laid out regarding warranty in the contract. However, if it is not... well, there will be some major issues.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        My principal concern, contrary to the tenor of this thread (which my 14 year old son had to tell me about)
        I'm amazed your 14 year old son somehow found out about this. That is... just kind of odd. Through Google I take it or has he been following what has been going on with your car? I just would like to know as it is best to keep young teenage eyes off these forums for reasons I'm sure you understand.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        VAC is doing that for me, and my hope is that once it does so and the costs are liquidated, Dave and I can reach an accommodation. If not, that will be unfortunate.
        The only problem here is now with yet another party being involved, VAC, it opens another can of worms and if anything goes wrong here no doubt fingers will be pointed in all sorts of directions. Good luck, but if you intend to push forward with VAC you obviously can't expect Dave to pay VAC for disassembly.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        meh its nothing special, im just here with my popcorn reading all the posts from individuals that have no idea of the entire story...you can say im here for the lulz.
        Click here to enlarge
        LOL.You are the little kid from M5 Board, Raza. I get a laugh from your misinformation and some of your quotes are epic in a hilarious way. Welcome aboard and please keep us entertained!
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasM5 Click here to enlarge
        i wish i could, but with the posters in this thread, all my knowledge would be sub-par at best. my kit was put together in my garage, nothing fancy.

        back to the popcorn.
        Nothing against Peter, but was not his install in a home garage also? Just saying.Click here to enlarge..But I do wish Peter the very best in getting his M5 on the road again.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge

        (which my 14 year old son had to tell me about), is that of getting my engine running and then running at something close to the power levels previously intended. VAC is doing that for me, and my hope is that once it does so and the costs are liquidated, Dave and I can reach an accommodation. If not, that will be unfortunate.

        --Peter
        Peter, might I suggest you read more threads here than on M5Board. You might pick up alittle more information of FIing BMW's.
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        Just a further note, Dirt11's heads were done by VAC...and have been off twice since to fix issues from that work.

        Also I have never heard of an aluminum piston eating steel sleeves...aluminum is a softer metal, it would beat itself senseless first before eating a sleeve.

        I have heard many an engine with piston slap, and it usually just takes out the rings if it's bad enough...never eaten a sleeve.

        There is ferrous metal in the pan, but do you know how many other parts in the engine are steel as well that could possibly fail?

        The full story is not here...and I would suggest Dave tearing it down as he has nothing to lose. As Sticky said, bringing it to VAC allows them to say whatever to sweeten the case. Not saying they will but I have seen it done before.
      1. herrubermensch's Avatar
        herrubermensch -
        Nothing in any of the paperwork disclaimed any warranties, either of fitness for a particular purpose or otherwise.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I believe this is the point of contention that has not been proven. It will take a disassembly to prove your view. At this point, it is simply your opinion.
        That is our fundamental point of disagreement. I suspect had you been present when the car was on the dyno and seen the way that it exhibited problems from the very beginning, you might feel different. We literally could not even do one single complete baseline pull. The engine simply would not spin freely.

        I agree that disassembly bolsters my case, which is one of the reasons I'm doing it. But it's not necessary.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm amazed your 14 year old son somehow found out about this. That is... just kind of odd. Through Google I take it or has he been following what has been going on with your car? I just would like to know as it is best to keep young teenage eyes off these forums for reasons I'm sure you understand.
        My son and I do most of my installations together in a tiny one-car garage in Richmond. Together, we installed my ESS supercharger kit, my RMS intercooler and related heat exchanger, deleted the under-plenum heat exhanger and installed the "Gulf" oil filter housing and stand-alone oil cooler, and many, many other mods. Thus, he is as invested in the car, at least emotionally, as I am. He found the posts by Googling my screen name. He is a regular poster on the M5Board.com, but as you know, that is a significantly different type of environment than this and most other automotive-related boards.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        Nothing against Peter, but was not his install in a home garage also?
        First install was in the home garage--a very nice one. Second install was done at Northeast Motorsports.
      1. DallasM5's Avatar
        DallasM5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        LOL.You are the little kid from M5 Board, Raza. I get a laugh from your misinformation and some of your quotes are epic in a hilarious way. Welcome aboard and please keep us entertained!
        are you still holding your breath waiting on OSH? if we want humor, then that takes the cake!