Close

    • The other side of the story regarding Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter's) forced induction M5 build/motor issues


      Here is the other side of the story that includes pieces from Bavarian Solutions perspective. This information was sent to BimmerBoost anonymously and we will present the information to you to come to your own conclusion. Thus far, Bavarian Solutions has been relatively quiet while many have taken the owners side some having jumped to conclusions. What we present here is inside information to balance out what was been written thus far and provide additional insight which members have requested.

      The owner of the car, Peter, goes by the name Herrubermensch and is a financial/bankruptcy attorney. What we have learned is the owner has bluffed about the motor being disassembled for "forensic" evidence and the car is currently sitting as is at Northeast Motorsports. The owner has been difficult to please and has thrown his weight around as an "attorney" from the beginning. His deal for the built motor was, well, quite the deal. How good? Almost cost on parts and very little on discounted labor. He was in constant communication with Dave at Bavarian Solutions and received quick responses to all of his frequent inquiries, any time of day. We have been told he is difficult to please and demands things to be done his way. Some would describe this as suffering from "attorney syndrome." He makes it very clear to everyone he is an attorney, how important his firm is, how much they bill, etc.

      Now, it is true the first built motor was blown and Bavarian Solutions rebuilt it. However, the cause of the failure has been determined to be a defective bank one VANOS unit. Mike from NorthEast Motorsports verified that the defect caused a binding issue. It would seem Peter (the owner of the car in question) agrees with this assessment. When the motor was spun by hand it would lock and when this happens it causes the pistons to collide with the valves which is obviously not a good thing. Bavarian Solutions received blame for this motor although it is my opinion it should be directed at Dr. Vanos. Bavarian Solutions has stayed out of it and is not slinging mud at anyone even though they are taking heat for a failure caused by something which was not their responsibility.

      The second failure is either a result of the tuner or the installation. We do not definitively know yet as the motor has not been taken apart to determine the point of failure. We will not delve into the pricing and such but the second motor was not done for free and that is the most we can say about that. Due to the VANOS issue not being sorted they decided not to install it on the second motor. There are a couple videos on M5board that show the motor running fine prior to the tuning. There was nothing wrong with the motor at this point except for a rough idle obviously due to the cams not being calibrated. When the oil was analyzed from the second failure after the tuning, there was no copper in it which has to do with the bearings. There was only aluminum and since Bavarian Solutions uses these pistons in their forced induction builds they are familiar what the results look like due to a piston failure from lack of fuel which is what they believe accounts for the aluminum in the oil.

      The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward.

      So what is the true story here? Well, you decide, but our job is to provide you all the pieces. The first failure it would not appear was the fault of Bavarian Solutions and all parties decided to stay away from the VANOS for a reason it would seem. No copper in the oil of the second failure shows it likely was not a build issue. Dave the owner of Bavarian Solutions offered to take the motor apart at his cost to determine the cause of failure. That speaks of confidence in the build and of a courtesy to the customer even though Bavarian Solutions does not have to do this by any means. In addition, Dave offered to do this disassembly in front of Peter with any witnesses he wished to show there was nothing to hide. Peter has not taken Bavarian Solutions up on this and instead has decided to flaunt his legal muscle.

      We will keep you updated on any additional developments but this is where things currently stand.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter) M5 forced induction build - blown motor started by BigM62 View original post
      Comments 343 Comments
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Interesting if its true that they guy got hooked up from the start imo he should be glad they paid for the first motor. My thing is why go thru a build like that and use rebuilt VANOS instead of NEW ones to go with a NEW motor?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        imo he should be glad they paid for the first motor
        This is not exactly the case.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        My thing is why go thru a build like that and use rebuilt VANOS instead of NEW ones to go with a NEW motor?
        Do not know, this is a good question.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        After reading his weights and expensive dinners with his hot wife reply I immediately knew the type... avoid at all costs.. I turn those customers away pronto. They're always more problems then they're worth.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        After reading his weights and expensive dinners with his hot wife reply I immediately knew the type... avoid at all costs.. I turn those customers away pronto. They're always more problems then they're worth.
        Sorry, weights?
      1. Bimmerbear's Avatar
        Bimmerbear -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sorry, weights?
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        No long explanation needed here. Mr. X began tuning and trying to obtain a baseline on the engine yesterday when we lost cylinder no 5. Subsequently, one could hear audible piston slap in bank 2, and the no. 3 knock sensor was going nuts, putting out 1.5v. Subsequent investigation of the oil filter revealed substantial chunks of aluminum throughout, and the oil was downright silver it had so much aluminum content. Most likely explanation is a chunk of piston and/or block. Anyway, the upshot is: catastrophic failure again.

        I can imagine everyone's reaction to this, so let me say in advance that I appreciate your well wishes. But pending a resolution of the legal issues, I would very much appreciate it if everyone would moderate their tone and be a little circumspect in their posts. Dave V and I are communicating, and I'm sure we will reach an appropriate resolution soon.

        I'm going to go beat up on some innocent weights in the weight room, then go have a top-flight dinner in downtown Manhattan with my gorgeous wife and try to forget about all of this, just for a while.

        Best,

        Peter
        http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post2005277
      1. rt turbo's Avatar
        rt turbo -
        This is pretty much what we summed up on BF.com, and then the owner and his freinds came on calling us all out for taking Bav Sols side. its pretty obvious what happened, and I hate when people come on and sling their professional djck around like this attorney.

        I also made a comment that you would think a high priced attorney would understand that he can be counter sued for libel after what he has done over the forums to BavSol. He has no engineering degree and really doesnt know much about these cars if he thinks he can diagnose cause without opening it. How the hell does he think he knows enough to diagnose without opeing the motor, and hence further open a lawsuit without proper diagnostic.

        Im going to edit here some: Im going after the owner because I think he is being way overzelous about this and slinging blame without proof of cause of failure. That is dirty pool IMHO. Now if the failure is build or on the hands of BavSol, I think they will fix it (or should). I just want to get out that I am pessimistic of the owner because the way he is handling this. Doesnt seem very classy to me.
      1. Stahlgrau's Avatar
        Stahlgrau -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        WTF kind of lawyer is this?!!
        A buff one with a smokin' wife that eats at top-flight restaurants. He's legit.
      1. jacobs323i's Avatar
        jacobs323i -
        LOL he is a legit douche!
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        "The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward."

        Wow, I didn't see this coming. But I always wondered why the the stupid "Mr.X" name. You do not want to mess around with South Africans. Just google Uwe Gemballa.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        This is pretty much what we summed up on BF.com, and then the owner and his freinds came on calling us all out for taking Bav Sols side. its pretty obvious what happened, and I hate when people come on and sling their professional djck around like this attorney.

        I also made a comment that you would think a high priced attorney would understand that he can be counter sued for libel after what he has done over the forums to BavSol. He has no engineering degree and really doesnt know much about these cars if he thinks he can diagnose cause without opening it. How the hell does he think he knows enough to diagnose without opeing the motor, and hence further open a lawsuit without proper diagnostic.

        Im going to edit here some: Im going after the owner because I think he is being way overzelous about this and slinging blame without proof of cause of failure. That is dirty pool IMHO. Now if the failure is build or on the hands of BavSol, I think they will fix it (or should). I just want to get out that I am pessimistic of the owner because the way he is handling this. Doesnt seem very classy to me.
        I don't read bf.c much but saw a thread was closed and so forth. Either way, that is our summary with some additional tidbits which should help the users come to their own conclusion.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        Wow, I didn't see this coming. But I always wondered why the the stupid "Mr.X" name. You do not want to mess around with South Africans. Just google Uwe Gemballa.
        This is exactly what I was thinking.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
        A buff one with a smokin' wife that eats at top-flight restaurants. He's legit.
        +1 .. Laugh

        Click here to enlarge
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        i hate it when hard working shops get jerked around by some 'entitled' douche.
        he's kinda painted himself in a corner tho. how could he agree with having the engine opened up now? too much at stake for him if BavSol comes out clean.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        i hate it when hard working shops get jerked around by some 'entitled' douche.
        he's kinda painted himself in a corner tho. how could he agree with having the engine opened up now? too much at stake for him if BavSol comes out clean.
        He has painted himself into a corner a bit. Maybe he isn't as good of an attorney as he thinks he is?
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        I know Bav Sol has a really good reputation..I dont think they would have $#@!ed up on purpose, and even that it isnt really their fault they covered it and bought him a new engine.

        This is also why I avoid clients like these. They are too much headache, especially that hes got so much money, yet doesnt wanna allow me to make a profit on any parts and wants to pay nothing for labor. $#@! people like them.

        You want to be frugal about every nickel and dime, it will come back and bite you in the ass.
      1. herrubermensch's Avatar
        herrubermensch -
        Geez, you guys are pretty harsh, I have to say. I don't think I know any of you personally, yet you purport to know me well enough from my posts and from Dave Vilanova's post above to level personal insults against me and my wife, for goodness sake. Very ugly and unkind. I am not an engineer; I wish I were. I'm just a Chapter 11 bankruptcy lawyer who loves cars and enjoys wrenching on them with my 14 year old son more than just about anything. Rediscovering my love for cars at a time when I have the opportunity to work on them and the money to do so has proven to be very cathartic for me. This whole episode with Dave is the very opposite of what I seek when I work on my car--to escape the ugliness of the legal world and focus on improving and enjoying cars with others who enjoy the same thing. And yes, I have developed some good friendships with many folks on the M5Board, which you guys deride as the "Housewives of BMW." And I have developed a fair amount of knowledge of the S62 and the E39 M5.

        I'm not going to recount all of the facts here, but suffice it to say that after an initial partial breakdown by Mike O'Neil at Northeast Motorsports to check for obvious causes of failure, the engine is now at VAC Motorsports in Philly for a complete teardown and forensic assessment. So the truth--whatever it may be--will be found out. I do not believe anything in the tuning was to blame, as timing as not advanced and AFRs were very rich when the engine's problems first showed themselves. You guys can deride "Mr. X," but there are good reasons for the silly name, and he is universally regarded as the top MSS52 tuner. The engine simply did not want to spin. Even with the vanos delete, which I agreed to in order ensure against a repeat performance of the first engine debacle, the engine did not spin freely, and the hotter it got, the greater the restriction. The initial teardown revealed no spun bearings, no burned pistons or valves, no valve-spring binding, etc. The principal issue was tons of ferrous material in the oil and tons of ferrous flakes and chunks in the oil filter and pan. About the only ferrous in this engine are the nodular cast iron sleeves. So the sleeves were being scraped by slapping pistons. This we know. Why this happened, we don't yet know, but we will.

        One of the principal reasons this process has dragged out is that, contrary to many promises from Dave, I have never received the blueprint of the engine. I'm starting to suspect that this is because the blueprint does not exist. I hope I am wrong and that Dave ultimately produces one. If he were serious about helping to resolve the issue rather than slam me in anonymous posts, I would have the blueprint in hand.

        I offered to settle this by having Dave pay for VAC to tear down the engine and determine the problem and fix it. Dave refused, saying that his group had to be the one to tear it down, and that I could have someone watch if I wanted. To those of you who say I should let Dave tear down the motor himself--again--I say ask yourself if you would do that. After my engine blew the first time, I gave my car to Dave for five months, I let him extract the engine himself in his own garage to save money, and gave him the opportunity to give me what he promised the first time--a well-built S62 that actually runs and makes something in excess of 800 bhp. Yet the motor exhibited so much piston slap while trying to establish a baseline on the dyno that the knock sensors on bank 2 were going nuts. I feel like I bent over backwards to give Dave the chance to make this situation right the first time--poor judgment on my part--and I wasn't going to make the same mistake again.

        The upshot is that I spent what is for me a tremendous amount of money on this project--now close to $50k--and was supposed to have a very high performance S62 in the car and tuned back in August 2010. Here I am in March 2011 and I still don't have a running engine, much less a complete project, and I'm facing the prospect of thousands of dollars of additional expense before I even know when I'll have a running engine, much less the high performance S62 I bargained for and that Dave agreed to build. All I can ask of those in this forum is to please put yourself in my position. If you had spent this much money, waited this long, and experienced multiple engine failures, what would you do? I don't think it is reasonable in those circumstances to have Dave once again try to diagnose the problem and resolve it.

        As for the kind of person I am, that is irrelevant to the diagnosis of engine failure and the quality or lack thereof in Dave Vilanova's work. My own assessment is that I feel I conducted myself in an extremely patient, polite and accommodating manner, I wired my money almost instantaneously when Dave asked for it, and openly defended Dave for months after the first debacle, even continuing to refer potential customers to Bavarian Solutions. I even went ahead and paid Dave the final completion payment before confirming that the motor ran and made power on the dyno--what a mistake that was. This after Dave persuaded me not to use VAC motorsports for the build because, in his own words, "he liked me too much to let VAC build my motor" and because he could build it better and for less money. In short, I was the perfect customer, even after Dave breached the contract, meeting neither the timing nor the quality and performance requirements of the contract. Admittedly, I've been a bit pissed off recently, and I do in fact blame Dave Vilanova. In no event does it constitute compliance with a contract to take the customer's money and yet still fail to deliver an engine that is fit for the particular purpose for which it was constructed.

        Finally, my real name is Peter S. Partee, Sr., and I am a partner with Hunton & Williams LLP in New York. My phone number is 212-309-1056. My address is 200 Park Avenue, 53rd floor. If any of you critics of my wife or my life have what it takes to do so and want to debate any of this in person, feel free to call and set up a time to do so. I've never been afraid of debate, especially when I think I'm right.

        Best,

        Peter
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Have someone watch and weep not.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        Geez, you guys are pretty harsh, I have to say. I don't think I know any of you personally, yet you purport to know me well enough from my posts and from Dave Vilanova's post above to level personal insults against me and my wife, for goodness sake. Very ugly and unkind.
        Who volleyed insults at your wife? Comments were made based on your own previous posting history by members familiar with it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        This whole episode with Dave is the very opposite of what I seek when I work on my car--to escape the ugliness of the legal world and focus on improving and enjoying cars with others who enjoy the same thing. And yes, I have developed some good friendships with many folks on the M5Board, which you guys deride as the "Housewives of BMW." And I have developed a fair amount of knowledge of the S62 and the E39 M5.
        If you truly are how you are attempting to portray yourself here I wonder why you do not take Dave up on his offer to disassemble the motor right in front of you with whatever witnesses you would like to have to present?

        M5board is a complete disaster when it comes to factual information or informed owners. To put it bluntly, it is filled with many guys like yourself who simply do not know what they doing or necessarily talking about. That would be why we have seen so many horror stories originating from that board due to the poorly informed/weak leadership (Gustav) and vendors taking advantage of the members. The ASR and Discovery Automotive debacles being the primary examples.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        'm not going to recount all of the facts here, but suffice it to say that after an initial partial breakdown by Mike O'Neil at Northeast Motorsports to check for obvious causes of failure, the engine is now at VAC Motorsports in Philly for a complete teardown and forensic assessment. So the truth--whatever it may be--will be found out.
        Will Dave from Bavarian Solutions be present for this disassembly? Because if not, completely worthless as VAC is a competitor and can say whatever the hell they want and you admit you are not an engineer and will not have the expertise to question it. The fact remains the motor has not been dissembled and this claim was made by you earlier.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        I do not believe anything in the tuning was to blame, as timing as not advanced and AFRs were very rich when the engine's problems first showed themselves. You guys can deride "Mr. X," but there are good reasons for the silly name, and he is universally regarded as the top MSS52 tuner. The engine simply did not want to spin.
        He is not universally regarded as the top tuner, he simply had somewhat of an internet reputation which popped. Please show me the body of evidence to corroborate this claim of being universally accepted as a top tuner. Last I checked, the real top tuners in the BMW world don't hide as they run reputable businesses and can easily be found. Mr. X' expert "tuning" bubble seems to have popped especially with your motor going... twice.

        You do not believe the tuning was to blame yet what about the oil which was analyzed? How do you explain the aluminum coming from the pistons that would correlate with a lack of fuel?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        The initial teardown revealed no spun bearings, no burned pistons or valves, no valve-spring binding, etc. The principal issue was tons of ferrous material in the oil and tons of ferrous flakes and chunks in the oil filter and pan. About the only ferrous in this engine are the nodular cast iron sleeves. So the sleeves were being scraped by slapping pistons. This we know. Why this happened, we don't yet know, but we will.
        This you are referring to the first tear down which as already stated the issues were caused by the Vanos with the pistons receiving contact so no wonder it wouldn't spin.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        One of the principal reasons this process has dragged out is that, contrary to many promises from Dave, I have never received the blueprint of the engine. I'm starting to suspect that this is because the blueprint does not exist. I hope I am wrong and that Dave ultimately produces one. If he were serious about helping to resolve the issue rather than slam me in anonymous posts, I would have the blueprint in hand.
        Dave has not slammed you, quit the contrary. If I was Dave, I would have ripped into you beyond belief. Dave gave you a huge discount, correct? Dave answered all your questions, correct? Dave offered to do a disassembly at his cost in front of you, correct? You could have whomever wanted preset, correct?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        I offered to settle this by having Dave pay for VAC to tear down the engine and determine the problem and fix it. Dave refused, saying that his group had to be the one to tear it down, and that I could have someone watch if I wanted.
        You are asking for Dave to pay for someone else to do the work on a motor he built? You seriously don't see the problem with this? I may only be in law school but even I see the complications this would create. The proper solution would be for you to have whomever you want present while Dave disassembles the motor at his cost. I wouldn't pay someone else to disassemble my work especially if I knew I was not at fault. It isn't Dave's responsibility to pay for whatever shop you choose to take apart the motor. Have someone from VAC watch the disassembly if it makes you more comfortable. Have whomever you want, that speaks to Dave's confidence in the build.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        I gave my car to Dave for five months, I let him extract the engine himself in his own garage to save money, and gave him the opportunity to give me what he promised the first time--a well-built S62 that actually runs and makes something in excess of 800 bhp. Yet the motor exhibited so much piston slap while trying to establish a baseline on the dyno that the knock sensors on bank 2 were going nuts. I feel like I bent over backwards to give Dave the chance to make this situation right the first time--poor judgment on my part--and I wasn't going to make the same mistake again.
        Dave didn't ask to rebuild your motor a third time. He offered to disassemble the motor at no cost. He isn't going to pay for someone else to do that, simply not a reasonable request especially if it turns out it is not his fault which the aluminum in the oil points to it being a tuning issue.

        Were there not videos of the car running fine on M5board after assembly? The issues happened after tuning. Come on, how good of an attorney are you really to not be able to piece this together?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        The upshot is that I spent what is for me a tremendous amount of money on this project--now close to $50k--and was supposed to have a very high performance S62 in the car and tuned back in August 2010. Here I am in March 2011 and I still don't have a running engine, much less a complete project, and I'm facing the prospect of thousands of dollars of additional expense before I even know when I'll have a running engine, much less the high performance S62 I bargained for and that Dave agreed to build. All I can ask of those in this forum is to please put yourself in my position. If you had spent this much money, waited this long, and experienced multiple engine failures, what would you do? I don't think it is reasonable in those circumstances to have Dave once again try to diagnose the problem and resolve it.
        Put myself in your position? No offense, but there are people here with builds that put yours to shame, mine included. I haven't had my car for a year custom building parts yet I know I have to be patient to get what I want and have it done properly. You should be pointing fingers at Dr. Vanos for the first failure. Custom builds are not something that happen overnight and there are issues.

        Instead of resolving them properly you bury Dave online and talk about taking the legal route when you don't even know what caused the second failure as the motor has not been disassembled. This is wrong and jumping the gun. Expecting Dave to foot the bill for another shop to take it apart is also absurd.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        As for the kind of person I am, that is irrelevant to the diagnosis of engine failure and the quality or lack thereof in Dave Vilanova's work. My own assessment is that I feel I conducted myself in an extremely patient, polite and accommodating manner, I wired my money almost instantaneously when Dave asked for it, and openly defended Dave for months after the first debacle, even continuing to refer potential customers to Bavarian Solutions. I even went ahead and paid Dave the final completion payment before confirming that the motor ran and made power on the dyno--what a mistake that was. This after Dave persuaded me not to use VAC motorsports for the build because, in his own words, "he liked me too much to let VAC build my motor" and because he could build it better and for less money. In short, I was the perfect customer, even after Dave breached the contract, meeting neither the timing nor the quality and performance requirements of the contract. Admittedly, I've been a bit pissed off recently, and I do in fact blame Dave Vilanova. In no event does it constitute compliance with a contract to take the customer's money and yet still fail to deliver an engine that is fit for the particular purpose for which it was constructed.
        The kind of person you evaluate yourself as is what is irrelevant here. Your actions are what matter and the tone you have set with this issue is one that is far from a calm and mature adult.

        VAC has had a ton of issues and I supposed this is something you are going to learn on your own, the hard way.

        You have not established Dave is at fault here or Bavarian Solutions for that matter and frankly should not be speaking until the motor is torn down and cause for failure is shown. From what has already been seen, it likely will be an issue due to fuel and the tuning which the internals will reveal if that is the case. Speculation is not helping your cause.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        Finally, my real name is Peter S. Partee, Sr., and I am a partner with Hunton & Williams LLP in New York. My phone number is 212-309-1056. My address is 200 Park Avenue, 53rd floor. If any of you critics of my wife or my life have what it takes to do so and want to debate any of this in person, feel free to call and set up a time to do so. I've never been afraid of debate, especially when I think I'm right.
        Finally, my name is Joseph and I go by Sticky. I'm not about to reveal my address or phone number online as that is not a smart move but if you want a debate you have one, let's see what you got.
      1. herrubermensch's Avatar
        herrubermensch -
        Hi Joseph. Happy to debate this with you any time. By my lights, your post demonstrates a substantial misunderstanding of the facts. For example, nowhere above was I referring to the first disaster, which was entirely Dave's fault EVEN IF the vanos unit was defective, as he was the assembler of the engine. (BTW, he was unbeknownst to me assembling S62 dual vanos for the first time based solely upon TIS directions). I'm talking about the current engine--it doesn't want to spin and exhibits so much piston slap in each cylinder that it is eating into the iron sleeves. There is FERROUS in the oil pan, NOT ALUMINUM. Get a magnet out and I'll demonstrate that for you. If Dave wants to be present when VAC disassembles the engine, he is more than welcome to do so. If you are in law school, go ahead and cite the precedent or other rule that establishes how the "proper" route is to allow the person who breached the contract to tear the engine down and diagnose it again. If YOU don't see the problem with THAT, please do us all a favor and seriously consider another profession. The issues happened while we were trying to get a baseline on the engine and before tuning the motor had begun. The only adjustments Mr. X had made were for idle quality. You castigate me for what you deem to be speculation, then based on a half-baked understanding of the facts, feel free to speculate to the point of pronouncing what the likely cause of failure was. I'm not trying to help my case; I have everything I need for that. Finally, I think the ad hominem nature of your posts above and many of the other posts in this thread is self-evident.

        --Peter
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        Hi Joseph. Happy to debate this with you any time. By my lights, your post demonstrates a substantial misunderstanding of the fact
        To be honest, I have followed this very closely from both sides. I think being removed from the issue I may be able to see it a manner without as much bias.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        For example, nowhere above was I referring to the first disaster, which was entirely Dave's fault EVEN IF the vanos unit was defective, as he was the assembler of the engine.
        Come on now, the only mistake Dave made it would seem was trusting Dr. Vanos to provide a proper Vanos unit. I don't see how this could be Dave's fault. You should be as vigorous with Dr. Vanos as you and Dave both agreed that part was to blame or else why did you mutually agree not to install it a second time? Your actions clearly show you believed the Vanos unit to be at fault and that you had no issue with Dave as you were more than willing to allow him to build it a second time, correct?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        I'm talking about the current engine--it doesn't want to spin and exhibits so much piston slap in each cylinder that it is eating into the iron sleeves. There is FERROUS in the oil pan, NOT ALUMINUM. Get a magnet out and I'll demonstrate that for you.
        I do not have the oil, but I do remember you stating the oil was "silvery" which would mean aluminum. BavSol did take a look at this oil correct? They are familiar with the pistons used and what oil would look like with their pistons due to a failure from running lean. This is simply their perspective. If you wish to demonstrate other issues with the oil, by all means, we will all take notice.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        If you are in law school, go ahead and cite the precedent or other rule that establishes how the "proper" route is to allow the person who breached the contract to tear the engine down and diagnose it again. If YOU don't see the problem with THAT, please do us all a favor and seriously consider another profession.
        I think you should first work on your reading comprehension and see what I wrote here:

        To be honest, I would not allow an engine builder whom I believed to cause two failures to tear down the engine to see the reason for the failure. The reason being, I would feel that if they discovered it was their fault they would cover it up or remove the evidence so that the internet would not lay blame on them.
        That was BEFORE I learned that they were more than willing to have you and any expert you wished present.

        You have not established they breached their contract and secondly you might want to consider another profession if a student needs to be telling you that you are more than jumping the gun here. If I were you, I would start watching what I post far more carefully as if this does escalate in the manner you have been threatening if I were Bavarian solutions and the disassembly reveals it is not my fault I would hit you with everything I had for defamation and libel. I think you may be sitting a little too high up on that pedestal.

        You have not established they are in breach of contract, end of story. Also, please post this contract as it would be necessary to support your claims. I'm not taking your word for it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        The issues happened while we were trying to get a baseline on the engine and before tuning the motor had begun.
        How do you explain videos of the motor running without issue before tuning?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch Click here to enlarge
        The only adjustments Mr. X had made were for idle quality. You castigate me for what you deem to be speculation, then based on a half-baked understanding of the facts, feel free to speculate to the point of pronouncing what the likely cause of failure was.
        So you admit Mr. X touched the motor and then problems began? Well, now you have a serious problem as I would never advise someone to reveal that much information. What we have clearly established here is the motor blew after Mr. X got his hands on it, well done. You sure I should be the one looking for another profession?

        I have nothing against you and do not know you but what I do know are both sides to this story thus far. I feel you are speculating based on a motor that has not even been disassembled. Are you serious? THE MOTOR HAS NOT EVEN BEEN TAKEN APART. So why don't you calm down with trying to throw all your legal weight around and let Dave, who must have the patience of a saint, take apart the motor in front of whatever experts you want and go from there?

        Are the legal threats really necessary? Does it make you feel like a big shot? Is spouting off about $50k making you feel like a baller online? I don't care what you paid. What I care about is getting to the truth of the matter and if you have integrity so should you. We are car enthusiasts who should respect one another and understand that with custom builds not everything goes as planned. You have 3 major variables in this build (Mr.x, Dr. Vanos, and Bavarian Solutions) and you have targeted Bav Sol I believe because they are the easiest target and also the one you have spent the most with.

        So how about everyone calms down and you give Dave the benefit of the doubt as he seems to have the confidence in his hardware to disassemble it free of charge to prove his side? Maybe you aren't taking him up on it because you are afraid he may actually be correct and you might end up looking, well, stupid?