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    • MotorTrend states the F10 M5 may be automatic only? DCT abandoned?

      All this time we were under the impression the F10 M5 would be getting a DCT gearbox. BMW apparently tried to get the M DCT supplied by Getrag to work but stronger actuators were necessary which slowed down the response time. Motortrend is now stating the car will be auto only. Uh, BMW, this is an M car, not M SUV. We understand why the X5 M and X6 M have autos, but the M5? No manual option? What the hell is going on?

      What does not make sense to us is that Getrag has higher torque capacity dual clutch transmissions, such as the unit in the Ferrari California. This unit is capable of 553 pound-feet, so why not use it? Nissan's GR6 by Borg Warner can handle 650 pound-feet, this is also a good option. There are dual clutches up to the task, we do not understand why BMW is settling for an 8 speed automatic that likely will not even be that strong.

      Additionally, if they intend to use an automatic a manual option should go without saying. Cadillac manages to do this on their high torque CTS-V, BMW should not have to be told as they have a manual available up to the task. We have entered the BMW twilight zone.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: MotorTrend states the F10 M5 may be automatic only? DCT abandoned? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 44 Comments
      1. DBFIU's Avatar
        DBFIU -
        Its not the first time 'car magazines' put out false $#@! just to sell. Its like the tabloids for men.
      1. Worth the wait's Avatar
        Worth the wait -
        Why are you guys so surprised.....

        When they released the E60 M5 it was initially only available with automatic. BMW eventually caved, but didn't the overall performance figures suffer a bit with the manual? I for one like auto now (old and lazy), but I certainly agree that ALL M cars should be designed and engineered around the three pedal set up!
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Worth the wait Click here to enlarge
        Why are you guys so surprised.....

        When they released the E60 M5 it was initially only available with automatic. BMW eventually caved, but didn't the overall performance figures suffer a bit with the manual? I for one like auto now (old and lazy), but I certainly agree that ALL M cars should be designed and engineered around the three pedal set up!
        I don't think you read the entire post.

        No traditional manual, no dual clutch transmission, no sequential transmission.

        MotorTrend is claiming it will get a slushbox automatic only. The E60 M5 had the smg sequential gearbox.
      1. ILB6 IF ULB9's Avatar
        ILB6 IF ULB9 -
        BMW is def. F@#!ing things up with there M division. The M-division is there pride and joy. So they should understand this is the consumers pride and joy too. You know the ones who buy the car and drive the car. The same people that make up the funds for the retarded engineers paychex. Just my $.02
      1. Yukohama's Avatar
        Yukohama -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        i don't buy these rumors. Look at spy videos , those shifting are too fast to be automatic
        check out 0:28
        maybe that was when they were testing the DCT to see if it would work?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Worth the wait Click here to enlarge
        Why are you guys so surprised.....

        When they released the E60 M5 it was initially only available with automatic. BMW eventually caved, but didn't the overall performance figures suffer a bit with the manual? I for one like auto now (old and lazy), but I certainly agree that ALL M cars should be designed and engineered around the three pedal set up!
        The M5 was never automatic.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Guy by the name of M5manny on twitter (twitter.com/m5manny) who works for BMW tweeted me this:

        @BimmerBoost As for a slushbox in the next M5, it's next Gen MDCT. But then again, what do I know ;-)
        He seems to think Motortrend is wrong and it will be a DCT. I hope he is right...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
        maybe that was when they were testing the DCT to see if it would work?
        Exactly, we know the DCT was being tested.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Exactly, we know the DCT was being tested.
        i don't think so , if they change the trans and make it a slushbox, it will take several months to test prototype cars.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        i don't think so , if they change the trans and make it a slushbox, it will take several months to test prototype cars.
        It depends how far along they were. Plus, they already know how the S63 reacts with an auto.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It depends how far along they were. Plus, they already know how the S63 reacts with an auto.
        true but i checked all spy videos on Youtube , i'm sure those prototypes weren't Auto. Those guys claim it's a 8-Speed ZF not 6-Speed , if we suppose this M Division is the same old M division , prototypes should be around for a couple months here
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        true but i checked all spy videos on Youtube , i'm sure those prototypes weren't Auto. Those guys claim it's a 8-Speed ZF not 6-Speed , if we suppose this M Division is the same old M division , prototypes should be around for a couple months here
        Yes, 8 speed but they know how their 6 speed reacts to the torque. If the 8 speed has the same or higher ratings, no need to worry.

        We don't know if there are prototypes with it or not, frankly, a lot of the prototype talk is guessing. I doubt every single one is on video. Maybe they have been testing it? We really don't know but we do know the DCT was in the cars.
      1. George Smooth's Avatar
        George Smooth -
        I actually would prefer it if its got a beefy automatic that has a far higher torque threshold than a DCT that might be on its limit with a tune only.
        When I have a look at my 335 autos gearchanges the shift is very hard to spot when looking at a the G's so I not think that a DCT has a major advantage on a turbo car if the gearing is identical.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
        I actually would prefer it if its got a beefy automatic that has a far higher torque threshold than a DCT that might be on its limit with a tune only.
        From a tuning perspective yes, but what about the car in stock form?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
        When I have a look at my 335 autos gearchanges the shift is very hard to spot when looking at a the G's so I not think that a DCT has a major advantage on a turbo car if the gearing is identical.
        DCT has a huge advantage, look at the PDK turbo vs. the auto turbo.
      1. George Smooth's Avatar
        George Smooth -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        From a tuning perspective yes, but what about the car in stock form?



        DCT has a huge advantage, look at the PDK turbo vs. the auto turbo.
        Compare the gearing as well and you will see the advantage maybe due to gearing with the extra gear. Its surely not on the shift on a turbo car with a slipping torque converter and no boost loss with no drop on rate of acceleration.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
        Compare the gearing as well and you will see the advantage maybe due to gearing with the extra gear. Its surely not on the shift on a turbo car with a slipping torque converter and no boost loss with no drop on rate of acceleration.
        In my opinion we have seen enough from DCT cars like the 458, GTR, M3, etc., to realize there simply is no way to compete with the shift speed.

        An auto will be a great tuning option, I agree with you, but it should be just that, an option.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Sticky a built DCT tranny ,like yours, can it handle 600lb-ft or more?
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Sticky a built DCT tranny ,like yours, can it handle 600lb-ft or more?
        BMW said it will continue offering manual transmissions as long as people kept buying them, if they decide to ditch it it will have been because of poor sales so really, we only have the posers who buy most M cars these days to blame. In all the years the E60 M5 has been out, I've only ever seen 2 with the manual transmission (and one of those was in the used car lot because the owner traded it for an SMG) and this is in an area where I see at least 2-3 M5s a week.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Sticky a built DCT tranny ,like yours, can it handle 600lb-ft or more?
        Yes.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        BMW said it will continue offering manual transmissions as long as people kept buying them, if they decide to ditch it it will have been because of poor sales so really, we only have the posers who buy most M cars these days to blame. In all the years the E60 M5 has been out, I've only ever seen 2 with the manual transmission (and one of those was in the used car lot because the owner traded it for an SMG) and this is in an area where I see at least 2-3 M5s a week.
        The manual in the E60 M5 was very weird. People clamored for it and then it didn't sell, everyone wanted SMG. I find it weird that the US got the manual but we don't get the things we really need (M3 GTS, M3 CSL, etc.).