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    • F10 M5 S63TU topping 800 wheel horsepower on factory turbos? The problem with glory pulls

      Maybe the factory BMW S63TU turbochargers can be pushed this far but is it really a good thing? To hit a glory pull peak figure like this would require pushing the turbos far out of their efficiency range. The number looks nice on the graph but is this really realistic F10 M5 performance?


      This is the claimed mod list:

      F10 M5 on Stock Turbos and No BEF
      JB4 and BMS chargepipes
      MSR intakes
      Akrapovic exhaust
      Fabworx downpipes
      Custom meth system installed by TNT Racewerks
      Tuned by TNT Racewerks
      MS109E with 3 gallons of e99
      M1 Meth


      Tuners and owners alike need to get out of the habit of posting a cell phone snap of a dyno plot and then claiming some sort of record. Where is the torque curve? What is the correction factor? Where are the boost and air/fuel graphs? Where is a log? How lean is this thing running?

      If someone wants to claim a world record with this they can go ahead but there does not appear to be anything to be proud of here other than a meaningless glory pull. A quality tuner would never put their name on it.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: F10 M5 S63TU topping 800 wheel horsepower on factory turbos? The problem with glory pulls started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 21 Comments
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        One 50 rpm spike over 800whp does not = an 800+ whp car.

        Also, aren't most of the big power, stock turbo M5's showing the typical peak HP well before redline followed by falling off a cliff in the last 1,000 rpm? Maybe they just pulled the wastegate lines and tricked the ECU, but I'm a skeptic of this pull.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        One 50 rpm spike over 800whp does not = an 800+ whp car.

        Also, aren't most of the big power, stock turbo M5's showing the typical peak HP well before redline followed by falling off a cliff in the last 1,000 rpm? Maybe they just pulled the wastegate lines and tricked the ECU, but I'm a skeptic of this pull.
        Agree with everything you said.
        I think stuff like this needs to be called out.
      1. Payam@BMS's Avatar
        Payam@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        One 50 rpm spike over 800whp does not = an 800+ whp car.
        I couldn't agree more.
      1. lfelunden's Avatar
        lfelunden -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        One 50 rpm spike over 800whp does not = an 800+ whp car.

        Also, aren't most of the big power, stock turbo M5's showing the typical peak HP well before redline followed by falling off a cliff in the last 1,000 rpm? Maybe they just pulled the wastegate lines and tricked the ECU, but I'm a skeptic of this pull.
        This!

        Some guys actually tighten the wg on these cars to hold power better to redline, BUT it will still taper by at least 50 whp!
      1. F80-M3's Avatar
        F80-M3 -
        If you're going to take such pretty pictures of the car, why not treat the part that made everyone click as such? Tired of shops posting half-assed results and no logs or any sort of data alongside. Your cellphone picture means nothing. You wouldn't have to have a conversation about what they must've done because it would all show... There's a reason why they don't post the logs... ALL of these guys do it, read a thread on Pure turbo results for the s55 and there was not a single dyno paired with a log, not to mention that most were this cellphone picture bs Click here to enlarge
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F80-M3 Click here to enlarge
        If you're going to take such pretty pictures of the car, why not treat the part that made everyone click as such? Tired of shops posting half-assed results and no logs or any sort of data alongside. Your cellphone picture means nothing. You wouldn't have to have a conversation about what they must've done because it would all show... There's a reason why they don't post the logs... ALL of these guys do it, read a thread on Pure turbo results for the s55 and there was not a single dyno paired with a log, not to mention that most were this cellphone picture bs Click here to enlarge
        I keep saying this over, and over, and over. No one ever listens because their results are shifty at best. Axis are always being cut off, bottom axis is speed not RPM, no logs, no anything. Just a bunch of glory bs posted, no one ever questions it. It makes no sense...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F80-M3 Click here to enlarge
        If you're going to take such pretty pictures of the car, why not treat the part that made everyone click as such? Tired of shops posting half-assed results and no logs or any sort of data alongside. Your cellphone picture means nothing. You wouldn't have to have a conversation about what they must've done because it would all show... There's a reason why they don't post the logs... ALL of these guys do it, read a thread on Pure turbo results for the s55 and there was not a single dyno paired with a log, not to mention that most were this cellphone picture bs Click here to enlarge
        It's how many market and it is unfortunate. I can't take tuners who post a peak figure on Instagram seriously. WTF is that?

        Post a full run. Post the actual dyno run file. Prove what you are doing.

        The game though is just showing the highest peak figures. Most people don't care. I'll do my best to call it out but it is what it is.
      1. gzim335's Avatar
        gzim335 -
        we ran into this car last sunday,he ran my friends c63s n got walked badly....car was smoking bad out the tailpipes kept pulling over with misfire and limp mode issues,these dyno runs r a joke and so is the claim
        btw I got the vid of the run too
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
        we ran into this car last sunday,he ran my friends c63s n got walked badly....car was smoking bad out the tailpipes kept pulling over with misfire and limp mode issues,these dyno runs r a joke and so is the claim
        btw I got the vid of the run too
        Please send the vid. Only fitting this should be called out.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        i saw this posted on another forum and immediately asked for a log, to hit that number he would probably need 30psi. between the e99 and all that boost with no bef the fuel trims would be maxed for the entire pull. That car must be so dangerously lean he is lucky something didnt melt. I just can't imagine how an owner would take such a massive risk on a 30k+ motor. spend $2000 on a tune and stop taking unnecessary extra risk
      1. gzim335's Avatar
        gzim335 -
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
        Just that angle and one run? That's it?
      1. gzim335's Avatar
        gzim335 -
        only angle,there was no point of more runs car wasn't moving how they advertise.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
        only angle,there was no point of more runs car wasn't moving how they advertise.
        Yeah.

        But smoke pouring out too? So wtf did they do? Ruin the turbos on some glory pulls? Do these people know what they are doing?

        I wouldn't let TNT Racewerks touch my car after seeing this.
      1. 1fastc63s's Avatar
        1fastc63s -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yeah.

        But smoke pouring out too? So wtf did they do? Ruin the turbos on some glory pulls? Do these people know what they are doing?

        I would let TNT Racewerks touch my car after seeing this.
        i would let them touch my car too 😂😂
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 1fastc63s Click here to enlarge
        i would let them touch my car too 
        Congrats, looks like you finally won a race. All you had to do was run a car with misfire and limp mode issues that has smoke pouring out the tailpipes.

        Feels good, huh?
      1. 1fastc63s's Avatar
        1fastc63s -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Congrats, looks like you finally won a race. All you had to do was run a car with misfire and limp mode issues that has smoke pouring out the tailpipes.

        Feels good, huh?
        Hahaha thanks this was my first and last win for me. Big win!
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
        we ran into this car last sunday,he ran my friends c63s n got walked badly....car was smoking bad out the tailpipes kept pulling over with misfire and limp mode issues,these dyno runs r a joke and so is the claim
        btw I got the vid of the run too
        I guess this explains the name 'tnt racerwerks '. They're professionals when it comes to blowing things up.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Here's a pic of the car smoking:

        Click here to enlarge

        Apparently there is something wrong with it. Honestly, wtf did these people at TNT Racewerks do?

        I hear it is going to DME Tuning to figure out what is wrong now.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Shops like this are why I've sort of given up on pushing a car. Far, far too many hacks out there with no clue what they're doing beyond having fun and self-promoting at a customer's risk and expense. Unless its just a cheap toy that I don't care about pushing the hell out of and beating on, basic bolt-ons and a proven OTS tune is more or less where I draw the line these days.