• HPF M3 loses control at the strip

      We just received these videos of an HPF turbo M3 which lost control at the Irwindale 1/8 mile strip and ended up going into the wall. The car looks like it is running bias-ply slicks with radial street tires up front. This may have contributed to the driver losing control as the general rule is not to mix due to instability up top. Additionally, once the car starts to sway it looks like the owner stays in it and then tried to brake too late which causes him to lose it. Hopefully we will have more details on the car and the setup soon.





      This article was originally published in forum thread: HPF M3 loses control at the strip started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 195 Comments
      1. TaZaM3's Avatar
        TaZaM3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
        just curious why is it bad to have slick in back and radials up front?
        Different sidewall loads basically.

        Here's a quote from Dunlop: "Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences.

        I think in this case when the load went off the rear slicks, the load transferred onto the front tires which got traction and swerved. The radials are better grip with the sidewalls for turns, thus when getting the load transferred the radial sidewall grabbed and caused the car to swerve alittle. After that its tough to regain unless you really know what you are doing.
      1. TaZaM3's Avatar
        TaZaM3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        Ha ha, that was HPF Chris that illuded to it being the Diff. Click here to enlarge

        Taza's the only one right on that forum.
        Thanks lol.


        Honestly, Im seeing whats going on over there now. Some of these guys just buy the kit and think they know everything all of a sudden.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        Ha ha, that was HPF Chris that illuded to it being the Diff. Click here to enlarge

        Taza's the only one right on that forum.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        No it wasnt chris who said it first. It was that forcefed guy. Chris chimed in later tho.
        So he agreed?Click here to enlarge
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
        Thanks lol.


        Honestly, Im seeing whats going on over there now. Some of these guys just buy the kit and think they know everything all of a sudden.

        This is correct. Thanks for stating it.
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Chris didn't say he needed the diff. Maybe I don't really care. It's that forcefed dude that's makes me
        ashamed to have hpf kit sometime. Don't get that dude.
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        It's the same guy taza. Forcefed. Same dude talking trash about your dynos or some $#@!. I don't really go over there anymore. Bimmerboost much better.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        I find it odd I was neg rep'd in this thread. That whole forum sucks at life. Sticky good job keeping it civil here.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
        Different sidewall loads basically.

        Here's a quote from Dunlop: "Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences.

        I think in this case when the load went off the rear slicks, the load transferred onto the front tires which got traction and swerved. The radials are better grip with the sidewalls for turns, thus when getting the load transferred the radial sidewall grabbed and caused the car to swerve alittle. After that its tough to regain unless you really know what you are doing.
        This is all correct, also, bias-ply actually expands and changes shape after the burnout and down the strip and you just don't want to mix them with radials.

        Some guys say they get away with it. But then some other guys run into the wall...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        It's the same guy taza. Forcefed. Same dude talking trash about your dynos or some $#@!. I don't really go over there anymore. Bimmerboost much better.
        Let's just try to make sure the crap stays over there and we keep this for the right people.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        Chris didn't say he needed the diff. Maybe I don't really care. It's that forcefed dude that's makes me
        ashamed to have hpf kit sometime. Don't get that dude.
        There are going to be people like that but who cares. I don't find him anywhere near as retarded as that hpfrob guy though. How many douches have BMW's? Or Mercedes? Or Porsches? Or Toyotas? You can find one in anything. Point is we have a good community, let them have their heads up their asses.
      1. ccsykes's Avatar
        ccsykes -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Some guys say they get away with it. But then some other guys run into the wall...
        Mixing street radials with slicks or bias ply tires has been a big no-no for decades. I imagine this was simply a lack of experience on the drivers part. I'm pretty sure that was the main issue. From the video it is pretty clear it had to do with weight transfer.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        damn, sucks...thats almost what happened to me in my m3
      1. Yukohama's Avatar
        Yukohama -
        natural selection in the works Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        Mixing street radials with slicks or bias ply tires has been a big no-no for decades. I imagine this was simply a lack of experience on the drivers part. I'm pretty sure that was the main issue. From the video it is pretty clear it had to do with weight transfer.
        That is another good point, some of the guys running stiffer suspensions definitely don't have setups conducive to weight transfer.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        damn, sucks...thats almost what happened to me in my m3
        Yes, but I think you almost lost it on a shift due to traction, right? Yours was due to street tires just not having enough traction for the power. Glad you saved it though... it can happen to anyone.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yes, but I think you almost lost it on a shift due to traction, right? Yours was due to street tires just not having enough traction for the power. Glad you saved it though... it can happen to anyone.

        yeah, very different reason, but car has similar results! I had the nitto 555R tires on rear. Very scary going head on into a wall. I dont really get what happened above, was reading...I dont know anything about drag tires and mixing them
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        yeah, very different reason, but car has similar results! I had the nitto 555R tires on rear. Very scary going head on into a wall. I dont really get what happened above, was reading...I dont know anything about drag tires and mixing them
        Well, you were running radials. The problem for you is that you didn't get enough heat into the radial.

        Taza explained the mixing pretty well.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
        natural selection in the works Click here to enlarge

        If I could + rep you I would 30 times.
      1. spdu4ea's Avatar
        spdu4ea -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        Ha ha, that was HPF Chris that illuded to it being the Diff. Click here to enlarge
        Way above everything else, Chris is a brilliant business man. If he can stroke a customer's bruised ego into a turbo upgrade and sell a few $3K LSD kits in the process -- he will...


        Will a stronger LSD help? Sure. It'll help prevent the sudden loss of one side's camber thrust and toe caused by one tire spinning (as well as the moment created by unequal forward thrust). But it won't prevent Bias sway, nor will it help when you get out of the groove...

        IMO, its better to learn those skills before upgrading because now you've made a faster car that will stay straight longer before getting loose and a driver still unprepared to handle the consequences...
      1. 930chas's Avatar
        930chas -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
        Way above everything else, Chris is a brilliant business man. If he can stroke a customer's bruised ego into a turbo upgrade and sell a few $3K LSD kits in the process -- he will...

        I will give Chris brilliant business man status when he muzzles a few of his more vocal supporters. Click here to enlarge But other then that, like pretty much everything you post I agree with you completely.