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    • Why the BMW F80 M3 & F82 M4 S55 engine crank hub spinning problem won't be fixed any time soon

      TPG Tuning recently ran an incredible 140+ mile per hour pass in the 1/4 mile with their F82 M4 shop car. That led to BimmerBoost wondering how they were solving the problem with the S55 engine's crank hub spinning. Well, they are not solving it.


      Mitigating it is perhaps a better term but the root of the problem is the design of the crank itself. BMW went cheap. Too cheap. Especially for an M car when they decided to put the timing and oil pump gear on a separate piece instead of integrating it as in the S63 V8 design. As that engine goes into a more expensive car BMW did not go as extreme in cutting costs.

      Also, it is not like this is the first time BMW has screwed up on a BMW M motor but in the past there were real solutions. There is no real solution for the F80 M3 and F82 M4 and there likely never will be:

      Quote Originally Posted by TPG Tuning
      I don't think there is a true fix for it unfortunately. We have a billet one piece we are using in our car. However as long as the timing gear , oil pump gear and crank snout remain separate pieces , there will always remain a threat of it spinning. Combining the hub and gear is just one piece of the puzzle. What really needs to be done is a machined crank snout incorporating the gears however the timing case being cast not the front of the block makes it impossible. Well not impossible but insanely expensive and complex to do.
      Basically, to do this correctly and fix the problem you need to re-engineer the crank design. That is not cheap. Can it be done? Yes. Is anyone going to do it? Probably not. Even if they do will people line up to buy it? The final cost likely makes it not worth the investment. At least TPG Tuning feels that way.

      Other solutions have been tried. Gintani's approach was a one piece crank hub:


      Quote Originally Posted by Gintani
      Hi we are looking for a #f8x #m4 or #m3 to test fit our one piece crank hub and upgraded bolt for final production. We need a car that is local to us since we no longer have ours. We are offering all labor for free and a discounted price on hardware all other details will be discussed later.
      This piece was tested on Maximum PSI's car but the crank hub spun. Gintani believes they did not torque the piece correctly but whatever happened the crank hub spun.

      Speaking of Maximum PSI, they are trying a different approach now. They are going to drill the crank:

      Quote Originally Posted by TPG Tuning
      Mike at Maximum has the best option so far but it requires drilling the crank in the car which is not going to be easy or cheap and still could have a failure if the pins break. Although it looks the most promising.

      We haven't drilled the crank and there is still an option of failure. They have what could be the best solution available with possibly the highest success rate achievable.
      Is that going to work? Who knows. We will have to wait and see.

      You may be asking, how did TPG Tuning have success and how is their motor holding together? Well, they are using a one piece billet crank hub design but with some additional changes:

      Quote Originally Posted by TPG Tuning
      The bigger addition we've done which I think helps more is lightening the crank damper. We shaved a little over 4 pounds off the factory crank pulley. Which reduced the rotational mass and weight hanging off the end of the hub. Combined with the one piece I think it's been the reason we have had success.

      There may also be a bit of luck involved but their motor is holding together for now and the crank hub is not spinning. It is not like they are not beating on it either.

      The problem is really for everyone else modifying the platform. The crank hub just feels like a ticking time bomb and as power is added the issue is only compounded further.

      TPG Tuning also is not offering their pieces to the public:

      Quote Originally Posted by TPG Tuning
      As far as our pieces we don't offer them to the public. The BMW market is one of the most hypocritical I have ever seen and we no longer follow it. We are out to support our sponsors and set records solely for ourselves and the companies who have worked with us. We'll gladly support and sell their products but anything we make in the future will be for our cars only , with the exception of our rods and pistons those are still available. I can send some pictures over though if people want to critique and dissect it. We had our one piece talked about prior, people said it wasn't machined properly and would fail. They also said our crank pulley would fail. To date we are the only ones who make the power and put it to the ground with success maybe we got lucky time will tell.

      After all that we just simply don't care to provide anymore info or invest anymore money into the platform. We have a ton of customers all over the world we provide parts and tuning for in other platforms which ends up being 100 times more lucrative. Unfortunately the S55 wasn't all it was cracked up to be and the market for it is even smaller it just isn't a good business move to keep going down that road.
      It is not hard to relate to TPG Tuning. The BMW tuning community is hypocritical. They want fast cars yet are not willing to put in the work to get there. Those who do put in the work are chastised if things do not work out as planned. It is like dealing with a bunch of spoiled brats. Especially when it comes to the M3 world.

      This is all very unfortunate as the S55 was such a promising platform. There is no need to write it off completely as cars are making big power but if in the back of your mind you know a failure is coming at some point how can you really enjoy it? Enthusiasts just have to hope someone figures out a solution someday.

      Quote Originally Posted by TPG Tuning
      At this point were continuing over principle. We want the 9 second pass. We have broken every part in these cars trying to get there and worked way too hard to quit now. We will get there, not a matter of if but when.
      BimmerBoost would like to thank Jason @ TPG Tuning for his time and to wish TPG Tuning good luck on their goal of breaking into the 9's on the S55 platform.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Why the BMW F80 M3 & F82 M4 S55 engine crank hub spinning problem won't be fixed any time soon started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 44 Comments
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Unfortunate that a perfectly healthy motor might bite the bullet because of a cheap and avoidable engineering flaw
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        So it isn't the next 2JZ?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Just to add some further detail, apparently the bed plate of the S55 is revised in newer cars. I don't know if this is true or not or what they changed if anything. Also, why it would help as apparently even with newer cars it is happening.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Just to add some further detail, apparently the bed plate of the S55 is revised in newer cars. I don't know if this is true or not or what they changed if anything. Also, why it would help as apparently even with newer cars it is happening.
        The theory going around is the new bed plate after a certain build date fixed the issue. But there was someone that spun their crank hub last month, with a newer build car. Also it was believed it was only DCT cars doing it, but that has since been debunked.

        The problem is the likelihood of it happening increases with power upgrades. Also once it happens, it seems to be prone to happen again. Some high powered F8x cars have spun 3-4 times.

        Owning an S55 out of warranty is going to be a gamble. At the very least buy one after build date of 12/2015.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I'd love to hear an explanation regarding how the bed plate is supposed to fix it and how it was changed exactly.
      1. yandizzle's Avatar
        yandizzle -
        ///M used to stand for performance... now I guess it's ///Money for repair..Sad I looked at a beautiful black f80 yesterday.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yandizzle Click here to enlarge
        ///M used to stand for performance... now I guess it's ///Money for repair..Sad I looked at a beautiful black f80 yesterday.
        M has taken a hit as a whole but it's really just the S55 experiencing this. The S63TU is actually showing quite strong.
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        I don't know that the 2 piece design is cheaper. It's really a 5 piece design plus some. The crank, the hub, 2 sprockets, bolt, plus friction washers.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        I don't know that the 2 piece design is cheaper. It's really a 5 piece design plus some. The crank, the hub, 2 sprockets, bolt, plus friction washers.
        TPG Tuning believes it is cost cutting and cheaper the way they did it and that has been reiterated to me by various tuners...
      1. yandizzle's Avatar
        yandizzle -
        You right.. it's on my list to drive. I've seen some monsters for sure. Wouldn't have to worry about this issue for sure. Sad cause I love my E46 M.
      1. NJ-M4's Avatar
        NJ-M4 -
        My daily driver M4 just last week trapped 138mph @ 10.5 ET (first run of the day before adapting to race fuel, and I also did a $#@!ty job of shifting). No spinning on launch. 1.77 60'. So this car has power. 690 whp and 705 torque.

        Point is: I've had TPGs Crank Hub Kit installed for over a year, and have run it hard drag racing and roll racing at least 60-to-80 passes since. No issues. Perhaps it depends on the install, perhaps it depends on the car. I have no idea. What I do know, is that I have pushed this car to it's limits and beyond, and the crank hub has not spun.

        To this day, I give props to Jason, Nate @ TPG Tuning for being willing to take risks and innovate. Also now to Mike at Maximum PSI. It's so easy to be a critic. So hard and lonely to try something new and risk criticism. Bravo to the innovators. I raise my glass to you. Damn the critics. Keep the faith. Stay persistent. Keep trying.
      1. Optigrab's Avatar
        Optigrab -
        Was your upgrade a preventive upgrade or did you spin your crank hub?
      1. NJ-M4's Avatar
        NJ-M4 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Optigrab Click here to enlarge
        Was your upgrade a preventive upgrade or did you spin your crank hub?
        Preventitive.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJ-M4 Click here to enlarge
        My daily driver M4 just last week trapped 138mph @ 10.5 ET (first run of the day before adapting to race fuel, and I also did a $#@!ty job of shifting). No spinning on launch. 1.77 60'. So this car has power. 690 whp and 705 torque.

        Point is: I've had TPGs Crank Hub Kit installed for over a year, and have run it hard drag racing and roll racing at least 60-to-80 passes since. No issues. Perhaps it depends on the install, perhaps it depends on the car. I have no idea. What I do know, is that I have pushed this car to it's limits and beyond, and the crank hub has not spun.

        To this day, I give props to Jason, Nate @ TPG Tuning for being willing to take risks and innovate. Also now to Mike at Maximum PSI. It's so easy to be a critic. So hard and lonely to try something new and risk criticism. Bravo to the innovators. I raise my glass to you. Damn the critics. Keep the faith. Stay persistent. Keep trying.
        Why didn't you post the slips and details?
      1. NJ-M4's Avatar
        NJ-M4 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why didn't you post the slips and details?
        Because the ET was two tenths off my best, so wasn't particularly happy with it. Click here to enlarge
        Good trap through, so slip is attached.Attachment 53653
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJ-M4 Click here to enlarge
        Because the ET was two tenths off my best, so wasn't particularly happy with it.
        Good trap through, so slip is attached.
        Would you put this in its own thread please with the full run details for me? Thanks.
      1. NJ-M4's Avatar
        NJ-M4 -
        Sure. Will do a little later. Work meeting about to start. Click here to enlarge
      1. maximumpsi's Avatar
        maximumpsi -
        We should have our car and another car together soon. We had to put a lot of things on hold leading up to our recent shop move. It was an annoying setback last year when the factory hub spun on our car and bent the valves. We had fresh tires and a better launch than the 10.2 record pass. I believe that pass would have been a 10.0 or 9.99 run had the hub not spun. We had to put things on the back burner for a bit and we ended up finally rebuilding the motor with 3000 miles on the car. Jason from TPG was a big help and sent us a head that they already had machined, and he also let me borrow a stock piston so we could send it out to a piston manufacturer for a custom set of pistons to be made. We also tried some prototype parts from Gintani this time around. We worked on the car for a week straight to get it ready fro MPACT last year. We took it out for some roll racing and ended up spinning the hub during a burnout prior to one of the runs. Nothing was damaged this time, so we once again put the car to the side. Eventually we re-timed it and turned the power down until re re-visited the hub.

        Fast forward to today:
        Our new shop is open and we finally have some room to have multiple things going at the same time. Now we are ready to revisit the F80 and new product development. My car has the oil pan and timing components off waiting for revised gears to come back from heat treatment. We have had a revised intercooler and intake manifold from Evolution of Speed for months now but couldn't put it to use until we get the crank hub sorted. We have been flashing numerous F series BMW's, and keeping power reasonable until we have a sorted solution.

        I can't tell you if we will be first in the 9's, but we will always be chasing that top spot! I wanted to thank everyone that we have collaborated with on the car - TPG, Evolution of Speed, HC Performance, RK tunes, Technique tuning, Pure turbos, Dodson Motorsport, Gintani, Fuel-it, Burger Tuning. Without friendly competition, it wouldn't be fun. I hope to see everyone out this year. Too many cars are right at the edge of our bumper with 1/4 mile times. Time to get back at it!

        -Mike and the Bimmer Clinic/Maximum PSI team
      1. NJ-M4's Avatar
        NJ-M4 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maximumpsi Click here to enlarge
        We should have our car and another car together soon. We had to put a lot of things on hold leading up to our recent shop move. It was an annoying setback last year when the factory hub spun on our car and bent the valves. We had fresh tires and a better launch than the 10.2 record pass. I believe that pass would have been a 10.0 or 9.99 run had the hub not spun. We had to put things on the back burner for a bit and we ended up finally rebuilding the motor with 3000 miles on the car. Jason from TPG was a big help and sent us a head that they already had machined, and he also let me borrow a stock piston so we could send it out to a piston manufacturer for a custom set of pistons to be made. We also tried some prototype parts from Gintani this time around. We worked on the car for a week straight to get it ready fro MPACT last year. We took it out for some roll racing and ended up spinning the hub during a burnout prior to one of the runs. Nothing was damaged this time, so we once again put the car to the side. Eventually we re-timed it and turned the power down until re re-visited the hub.

        Fast forward to today:
        Our new shop is open and we finally have some room to have multiple things going at the same time. Now we are ready to revisit the F80 and new product development. My car has the oil pan and timing components off waiting for revised gears to come back from heat treatment. We have had a revised intercooler and intake manifold from Evolution of Speed for months now but couldn't put it to use until we get the crank hub sorted. We have been flashing numerous F series BMW's, and keeping power reasonable until we have a sorted solution.

        I can't tell you if we will be first in the 9's, but we will always be chasing that top spot! I wanted to thank everyone that we have collaborated with on the car - TPG, Evolution of Speed, HC Performance, RK tunes, Technique tuning, Pure turbos, Dodson Motorsport, Gintani, Fuel-it, Burger Tuning. Without friendly competition, it wouldn't be fun. I hope to see everyone out this year. Too many cars are right at the edge of our bumper with 1/4 mile times. Time to get back at it!

        -Mike and the Bimmer Clinic/Maximum PSI team

        Great stuff, Mike. I am honored to even be remotely close to you and Jason. I look forward to seeing you and your car this season. Hopefully seeing you hit 9s!
        -Dave
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maximumpsi Click here to enlarge
        We should have our car and another car together soon. We had to put a lot of things on hold leading up to our recent shop move. It was an annoying setback last year when the factory hub spun on our car and bent the valves. We had fresh tires and a better launch than the 10.2 record pass. I believe that pass would have been a 10.0 or 9.99 run had the hub not spun. We had to put things on the back burner for a bit and we ended up finally rebuilding the motor with 3000 miles on the car. Jason from TPG was a big help and sent us a head that they already had machined, and he also let me borrow a stock piston so we could send it out to a piston manufacturer for a custom set of pistons to be made. We also tried some prototype parts from Gintani this time around. We worked on the car for a week straight to get it ready fro MPACT last year. We took it out for some roll racing and ended up spinning the hub during a burnout prior to one of the runs. Nothing was damaged this time, so we once again put the car to the side. Eventually we re-timed it and turned the power down until re re-visited the hub.

        Fast forward to today:
        Our new shop is open and we finally have some room to have multiple things going at the same time. Now we are ready to revisit the F80 and new product development. My car has the oil pan and timing components off waiting for revised gears to come back from heat treatment. We have had a revised intercooler and intake manifold from Evolution of Speed for months now but couldn't put it to use until we get the crank hub sorted. We have been flashing numerous F series BMW's, and keeping power reasonable until we have a sorted solution.

        I can't tell you if we will be first in the 9's, but we will always be chasing that top spot! I wanted to thank everyone that we have collaborated with on the car - TPG, Evolution of Speed, HC Performance, RK tunes, Technique tuning, Pure turbos, Dodson Motorsport, Gintani, Fuel-it, Burger Tuning. Without friendly competition, it wouldn't be fun. I hope to see everyone out this year. Too many cars are right at the edge of our bumper with 1/4 mile times. Time to get back at it!

        -Mike and the Bimmer Clinic/Maximum PSI team
        It's good to see vendors supporting each other instead of trying to tear each other down. That's how it is supposed to be.