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    • Next generation 2018 BMW F90 M5 losing DCT gearbox for automatic due to all wheel drive

      This is a real shame although not really all that surprising. The Audi RS7 utilizes an all wheel drive ZF gearbox and the new W213 E63 AMG follows suit. What do they both have in common? Twin turbo top mount V8's and all wheel drive.


      Developing a DCT gearbox to support the torque of these twin turbo V8's moving 4500+ pound cars is difficult. Not to mention there needs to be some headroom as the companies know people will tune and launch them.

      Audi did the same thing with the new S5 model and its turbo powerplant. They ditched the dual clutch transmission for a ZF automatic.

      Who is the winner in this? ZF. They get to sell more transmissions and no doubt the cost factored into BMW's decision.

      The next generation mid-size battle is shaping up as the most boring of all time. Audi, Mercedes, and BMW all have the same exact thing. Porsche has a similar 4.0 liter V8 motor as the other three but at least gives you a dual clutch transmission with all wheel drive which stands out in the segment.

      Cadillac, please do something exciting with your next car that doesn't copy the already boring German recipe.

      Source

      This article was originally published in forum thread: No more DCT for M5? started by BlackJetE90OC View original post
      Comments 26 Comments
      1. SpeedLimit?'s Avatar
        SpeedLimit? -
        Variety is a thing of the past when it comes to this class of performance sedans now...definitely not as fast but was very cool seeing the different options available to challenge M5's in the past.
      1. maxnix's Avatar
        maxnix -
        Sad that ZF can engineer an 8 speed DCT for Porsche but GETRAG cannot for BMW, or BMW did not wnat to pay the price.
      1. rezin23's Avatar
        rezin23 -
        They just lost me as a customer. The GTR does it, why can't BMW?

        This is crazy.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Cost cutting.
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rezin23 Click here to enlarge
        They just lost me as a customer. The GTR does it, why can't BMW?

        This is crazy.
        The GTR doesn't do anything, it's a car. What you mean is Nissan (or really borgwarner) does it, and yes, that's very frustrating if BMW is giving up on the DCT in the m5.
      1. kbaldi29's Avatar
        kbaldi29 -
        There is couple ZF variations that can hold way more already than DCT RWD in stock forms, maybe this is not a bad thing.
        I'm sure there is a lot of people that wouldn't mind not having to pay for a clutch upgrade (4K-6k) after a Tune Bc their dct clutch started to slip! Just my two cents
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Doesn't the X5M have a DCT? This makes no sense.
      1. 93siro's Avatar
        93siro -
        Autocar you say, eh?
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Doesn't the X5M have a DCT? .
        No
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kbaldi29 Click here to enlarge
        There is couple ZF variations that can hold way more already than DCT RWD in stock forms, maybe this is not a bad thing.
        I'm sure there is a lot of people that wouldn't mind not having to pay for a clutch upgrade (4K-6k) after a Tune Bc their dct clutch started to slip! Just my two cents
        It just won't feel as involving and will not offer anything over Mercedes or Audi. They built dragsters, not sport sedans.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Doesn't the X5M have a DCT? This makes no sense.
        No which is why it makes sense. Probably the same box they are already buying just in greater volume.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Maybe a volume thing, more M selling out.

        I don't see why, our S7 has DSG and it works great and holds tons of power
      1. R.G.'s Avatar
        R.G. -
        It'll be saved for the competition heritage super america number 1 M5 with track package
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rezin23 Click here to enlarge
        They just lost me as a customer. The GTR does it, why can't BMW?

        This is crazy.
        The GTR isn't the best example of good DCT. They need upgraded transmissions for anything over bolt ons.
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        True the early transmissions had issues, however I was under the impression those were addressed....do all GTRs with FBO+e85 have transmission upgrades?

        I ask because e85 + bolt ons = 9 sec 1/4 mile (SBD700) so its understandably a lot of stress on the transmission...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by subaru335i Click here to enlarge
        The GTR isn't the best example of good DCT. They need upgraded transmissions for anything over bolt ons.
        The design has been around forever but there are a ton of upgrades available.

        Newer ones are stronger I believe.
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Yeah the new design doesn't explode at stock power levels anymore but above FBO you definitely need a transmission upgrade. The porsche PDK is a much much better transmission.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        So the new 6-cylinder 540i xDrive is listed at 4019lbs on BMW website. What is the behemoth going to weigh?
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        5300? So about the same...
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky2 Click here to enlarge
        5300? So about the same...
        You mean 4,300lbs right?
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Look i know, people can say that the super saloon war is boring with similar engines and transmissions, but the key difference is that the BMW M5 is always ends up being the most modified of the three (E63, S6) and now that it's going to have AWD its going to be nuts #Bimmerboostwasfirst

        There is another Bimmerboost article posted about Pure Stage 2 upgrade on X5M resulting in 700whp+, I wonder what that will do 0-60 or 60-130 in the new M5 which weighs 1000lbs less! Can't wait!