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    • Gintani's chromoly S65 V8 bedplate and if bracing the E9X M3 block is better than sleeving

      Sleeving the S65 V8 block for greater strength is the approach everyone took early on. An article from VAC asked if sleeves are bad for your S65 V8 engine and if there are any drawbacks. Their conclusion was that there are no drawbacks.


      BimmerBoost would beg to differ. There are drawbacks especially with flanged sleeves as when material is removed from the block to install the sleeves the rigidity is compromised. That is simply the experience with my own sleeved S65 V8 running high boost and Gintani's experience with various sleeved blocks.

      The approach taken for the BimmerBoost.com E92 M3 now is going with a high strength chromoly bed plate to brace and reinforce the block while leaving the bore alone. BimmerBoost previewed this bedplate in an article last year and now you can see the finished design and how it compares to the factory.

      There will no doubt be people saying sleeves are the way to go. They are welcome to try. The factory block without sleeves is currently supporting over 700 horsepower to the wheels.

      There are obviously going to be upgrades other than just this brace but take into account what AMS says here:

      Quote Originally Posted by AMS
      To combat the main bearing failures, our engineering team designed and machined a solid billet aluminum girdle to replace the factory cast bimetal one. Strength improvements were made in both the design and material by using an aircraft aluminum, when at temperature, is as strong as the factory cast iron main caps and nearly twice as strong as the factory cast aluminum. Further improvements were made with the use of proprietary main studs and dowel sleeves. What our engineers found through initial finite element analysis (FEA) of their design, was that torsional rigidity increased substantially.


      What will an S65 V8 do with a reinforced block, forged crank, forged internals, and turbos? Well, we are going to find out.














      This article was originally published in forum thread: Gintani's chromoly S65 V8 bedplate and if bracing the E9X M3 block is better than sleeving started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 41 Comments
      1. The Convert's Avatar
        The Convert -
        Ok... Two things.

        1. Boring out the factory cylinder liners and inserting a stronger liner will not reduce rigidity. By inserting a more rigid sleeve, if done correctly, you will increase stiffness.

        2. If you're going to "watermark" your photos, do it right. Look at VTT photos as an example. I could just steal your images and crop them and claim them as my own.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Convert Click here to enlarge
        1. Boring out the factory cylinder liners and inserting a stronger liner will not reduce rigidity. By inserting a more rigid sleeve, if done correctly, you will increase stiffness.
        That is the common thinking but the S65 block, its tight cylinder spacing, and its material is not conducive to this. The flanged sleeves remove too much material.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Convert Click here to enlarge
        2. If you're going to "watermark" your photos, do it right. Look at VTT photos as an example. I could just steal your images and crop them and claim them as my own.
        Sure, you could, but I could just easily prove they are cropped from the originals copyrighted here and issue a DMCA takedown notice.

        I wasn't trying to watermark them to the point where you can't see them and if someone really cares so much as to steal this from me they have problems.

        You need to be more positive. Grab a beer or a titty or something.
      1. CookieCrisp's Avatar
        CookieCrisp -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You need to be more positive. Grab a beer or a titty or something.
        Click here to enlarge
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Convert Click here to enlarge
        Ok... Two things.

        1. Boring out the factory cylinder liners and inserting a stronger liner will not reduce rigidity. By inserting a more rigid sleeve, if done correctly, you will increase stiffness.
        That is absolutely not how it works. Sleeves are just pressed in there, they aren't welded into the block so they are not integral to the block and won't provide extra stiffness to most forces.
      1. R.G.'s Avatar
        R.G. -
        Oooo, anticipation growing to see what a properly built S65 can do...


        I laughed a little thinking about the vargas watermark...debacle. I think waterboarded would have been a better description.
      1. dbals's Avatar
        dbals -
        any idea as to what ballpark cost on this piece will be? is it actually going to be a production piece?
      1. alex@ABRhouston's Avatar
        alex@ABRhouston -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dbals Click here to enlarge
        any idea as to what ballpark cost on this piece will be? is it actually going to be a production piece?

        I'd assume unless they build the engine- no. The main bearing line bore will be off if you think it just bolts onto another engine.
        Seems like a lot of work for this, when it doesn't seem that the bed plate suffers failures.. or did I miss that memo?
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
        I'd assume unless they build the engine- no. The main bearing line bore will be off if you think it just bolts onto another engine.
        Seems like a lot of work for this, when it doesn't seem that the bed plate suffers failures.. or did I miss that memo?
        I believe the issue is flexing of the engine block, which they believe this will reduce.
      1. alex@ABRhouston's Avatar
        alex@ABRhouston -
        All engines flex, I assure you. Unless its causing failure, its normal. *what* is failing is the question.
      1. Optigrab's Avatar
        Optigrab -
        If this doesn't work is a billet block next?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dbals Click here to enlarge
        any idea as to what ballpark cost on this piece will be? is it actually going to be a production piece?
        I'm not sure but I think they will only install this in-house like their turbos. They will have a dealer in New Jersey though for people on the East Coast.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
        I'd assume unless they build the engine- no. The main bearing line bore will be off if you think it just bolts onto another engine.
        Seems like a lot of work for this, when it doesn't seem that the bed plate suffers failures.. or did I miss that memo?
        Well the main bearings did suffer...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        I believe the issue is flexing of the engine block, which they believe this will reduce.
        Not just that but the stress on the front of the motor from the big blower. Turbos will relieve that and also the engine will be stiffer as well.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Optigrab Click here to enlarge
        If this doesn't work is a billet block next?
        If this doesn't work I'm done with it. I have other things to do like making money instead of dumping it into an endless pit.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        You know, it would also be helpful if Gintani posted answers to some of these questions as well as their reasoning. It would spare me having to relay and ask things for them.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Confused, what's AMS' involvement in this project?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Confused, what's AMS' involvement in this project?
        I'm not sure what is confusing? AMS is quoted describing details that apply to the project. Take a look at the original link for clarification I guess.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm not sure what is confusing? AMS is quoted describing details that apply to the project.
        Take a look at the original link for clarification I guess.
        Well from the quote, it reads like AMS' Engineering Team helped Gintani develop the bedplate. Which would be great, but if that's true I just don't understand (besides their obvious lack of presence in E9x M3 market) why they wouldn't take credit and retail the part themselves.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Well from the quote, it reads like AMS' Engineering Team helped Gintani develop the bedplate. Which would be great, but if that's true I just don't understand (besides their obvious lack of presence in E9x M3 market) why they wouldn't take credit and retail the part themselves.
        Um, no, it doesn't. It reads like here is what AMS thinks about a girdle. You're coming to the incorrect conclusion for some reason. AMS is quoted for supplemental insight as they have already done this. At no point is anything beyond that stated that should lead you to thinking they are involved in development of a product clearly labeled as Gintani and this was covered in the original article if you read it.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        What AMS thinks about a girdle applied to the VR38... when it's producing over 1500 HP