• Stock C6 Z06 vs. ESS (esstuning) VT2-600 supercharged DCT E90 M3

      Here we have a bone stock C6 Z06 vs. a VT2-600 supercharged DCT M3. The M3 gets crushed pretty decisively. Even in the run where the Z06 let off and then got back on it, it clearly shows the power disparity between the two as the Z06 is able to creep back up. So why this result when a DCT Gintani supercharged M3 is able to walk a stock Z06?

      Well, a couple things. The M3 has 3.62 gears. I personally switched back to the stock gears after running 3.62's as they slowed me down up top. Additionally, this clearly shows, yet again, that the Gintani Stage 2 setup is simply much stronger. We respect the M3 owner for going out there and running and we thank the Z06 owner for putting the video up showing how it "really" is in the real world. In the future, the ESS M3 owner should switch back to the stock gears and get meth, unless he enjoys losing to stock cars.


      Here is Drew's Gintani Stage 2+ DCT M3 running stock Z06's:

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Stock C6 Z06 vs. ESS (esstuning) VT2-600 supercharged DCT E90 M3 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 209 Comments
      1. Stimo's Avatar
        Stimo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        When you compare the two setups, the Gintani setup actually uses a blower that pushes more volume, but they are close in WHP per psi, so biglare's response, when it comes to comparing these two kits, is accurate. All the current setups seem to be very close in terms of whp per psi. FWIW he has not been the one going around saying an ESS car with less boost can best or run with another M3 running more boost.
        Actually what he said isnt accurate whatsoever. He said "a car", meaning any car, setup, etc. "that is running more boost and meth is supposed to be faster and should be" is what he said, and that is a completely false statement. That graduate degree did him alot of good i see. Click here to enlarge.. If he would have had a degree, or even known half of what he was talking about, he would have worded it exactly like you worded your response. But he didnt, he made an extremely general statement, and this only applies to two chargers that flow the same CFM. If his charger flows less CFM AND was running less boost hes obviously gonna get crushed just like he did in the video. Even at the same pressure he would still lose, its simple physics. (given no driver error)
      1. biglare's Avatar
        biglare -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
        you have to be one of the stupidest persons ive ever seen on a forum talking as if you know something. So a car running more boost is SUPPOSED to be faster?? what happens if that car is running a WAY bigger turbo/charger than the other??? The game is VOLUME, not PREESSURE. And you obviously didnt graduate college if you didnt even know that.
        I have a nice little 4 cylinder subaru that id be more than happy to race you with if your car is the uber fast, and while were at it lets put down some cash since your car is teh faster and you eem to be super confident. And ill let you run more boost then me so that your "extra 2-3psi" should win, no?? lol, your a joke, quit posting before you make yourself look more stupid Click here to enlarge
        Bro, you are being ridiculous. We are obviously talking about two "cars" that are quite similarly setup and that is why I was not exact or specific. Why are you the only one that cannot follow this. READ THE THREAD!

        I never claimed to be the fastest and never claimed to be able to beat everyone.

        Get your Subie out there and show up next time. I'm not afraid or scared to drive my car against anyone. I have fun driving my car with whomever is out there.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        When you compare the two setups, the Gintani setup actually uses a blower that pushes more volume, but they are close in WHP per psi, so biglare's response, when it comes to comparing these two kits, is accurate. All the current setups seem to be very close in terms of whp per psi. FWIW he has not been the one going around saying an ESS car with less boost can best or run with another M3 running more boost.
        Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to. You and everyone else except this Stimo guy got it. That's his problem.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
        Actually what he said isnt accurate whatsoever. He said "a car", meaning any car, setup, etc. "that is running more boost and meth is supposed to be faster and should be" is what he said, and that is a completely false statement. That graduate degree did him alot of good i see. Click here to enlarge.. If he would have had a degree, or even known half of what he was talking about, he would have worded it exactly like you worded your response. But he didnt, he made an extremely general statement, and this only applies to two chargers that flow the same CFM. If his charger flows less CFM AND was running less boost hes obviously gonna get crushed just like he did in the video. Even at the same pressure he would still lose, its simple physics. (given no driver error)
        Frankly, you are not worth anymore of my time! Good Day!
      1. Stimo's Avatar
        Stimo -
        I just saw your post acting like a know it all and frankly you're wrong about everything you said. If youre saying similar because theyre both SC'd, then yes, but other than that they're completely different setups, and one is using a BIGGER blower! So your argument of being equal boost would be an equal race is another false statement. almost everything you said was twisted to try and make ur car sound faster than it really is and i think thats lame. Losing is losing, state the facts but unless you're running the exact same blower, dont talk about what could have happened if tou had this or that, you didnt have it. Its like saying "well if i had a 100 shot i would have done alot better and prolly beat you" how lame does that sound to you?? thats exactly what youre arguing from 3rd persons view of it. im actually surprised you even responded since you have nothing technical to say in defense whatsoever, you just posted to talk crap, which seems to be a continuous problem with you.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
        you just posted to talk crap, which seems to be a continuous problem with you.
        He did get defensive and start talking crap when no one was saying anything about him but I think he is beyond that now, at least I hope he is...

        Back on the topic, it's good to see these runs so we can get real world results and not go by dyno charts.
      1. Stimo's Avatar
        Stimo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        it's good to see these runs so we can get real world results and not go by dyno charts.
        Yeah i hate dyno chart comparisons, its like trying to compare dick sizes on a forum, theres no point to it at all unless its done at the same place/same day/dyno. Then yes, the numbers are comparable.. But other than that theres no relevance and its just used as a tuning tool to see increase frm base pull to final pull increases.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
        Yeah i hate dyno chart comparisons, its like trying to compare dick sizes on a forum, theres no point to it at all unless its done at the same place/same day/dyno. Then yes, the numbers are comparable.. But other than that theres no relevance and its just used as a tuning tool to see increase frm base pull to final pull increases.
        We tried to have a dyno comparison, same day, same place, same time, which ESS asked for and then backed out of at the last minute: http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...highlight=back

        Very true, however, you are not familiar with the whole dyno controversy concerning these kits. Check it out: http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...2116#post32116
      1. Stimo's Avatar
        Stimo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        We tried to have a dyno comparison, same day, same place, same time, which ESS asked for and then backed out of at the last minute: http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...highlight=back

        Very true, however, you are not familiar with the whole dyno controversy concerning these kits. Check it out: http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...2116#post32116
        on those dyno charts for comparison, even though they were done on the same TYPE of dyno which is better than different dyno comparisons, if you looks close the CF or Correction Factor is set differently for the runs between the dyno charts.. First dyno was lowest because there was no correction factor set. second dyno chart i duno what that setting is but obviously skewed. and 3rd has SAE correction on, so thats like comparing apples to oranges.. IMO even using same dyno trying to compare numbers doesnt work.. ONLY way is same dyno same day.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
        on those dyno charts for comparison, even though they were done on the same TYPE of dyno which is better than different dyno comparisons, if you looks close the CF or Correction Factor is set differently for the runs between the dyno charts.. First dyno was lowest because there was no correction factor set. second dyno chart i duno what that setting is but obviously skewed. and 3rd has SAE correction on, so thats like comparing apples to oranges.. IMO even using same dyno trying to compare numbers doesnt work.. ONLY way is same dyno same day.
        I know, but the main point is dyno numbers sell kits and they were portrayed as freakishly high.
      1. boostdd's Avatar
        boostdd -
        I know I'm late but since I'm a n00b, thanks for sharing the vid.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        BigLare and Roman's M3s are the Feb issue of European Car magazine.

        Quote from article(biglare claiming some victories):

        "...but for the most part they allow the M3 to play with and humiliate the big boys. As evidence, here's a list of victims the sedan has left in its wake: 911 turbo, 360 Modena, F430, M5, M6, SL63 and countless Japanese and American muscle cars. It's still looking to meet is match."
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        "...but for the most part they allow the M3 to play with and humiliate the big boys. As evidence, here's a list of victims the sedan has left in its wake: 911 turbo, 360 Modena, F430, M5, M6, SL63 and countless Japanese and American muscle cars. It's still looking to meet is match."
        Humorous in retrospect.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        There is also some detail of how ESS is on a marketing blitz as of late. They now have a new marketing manager and strategy to get the word out, that is headed by Roman Zepeda. Roman is the Director of Marketing for ESS Tuning. The article states they are benefiting from viral, word-of-mouth marketing via forum chatter and videos.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        There is also some detail of how ESS is on a marketing blitz as of late. They now have a new marketing manager and strategy to get the word out, that is headed by Roman Zepeda. Roman is the Director of Marketing for ESS Tuning. The article states they are benefiting from viral, word-of-mouth marketing via forum chatter and videos.
        Marketing... that is a nice way to put it.
      1. beedub's Avatar
        beedub -
        i have to say i personally think this has been one of the best reads on the forums i had in ages....... if we can keep the banter civil then even better but really guys ive personally learned alot about both setups. so your educating people like me who dont know the in's and outs.

        Right i have a few questions, i own a blown s54 VT1 445 z4m, that uses the same vortech v3si as the ess m3 kits, i read that Pressure isnt the key but volumn, so am i correct in thinking the larger gintani charger will MOVE more air at the same boost pressure? or am i missing the target, according to the vortech site the vortech v3si is good for (see below)
        Performance Specs

        Max Speed: 52000 RPM Max Boost: 22 PSI Max Flow: 1150 CFM Max Power: 775 HP Peak Efficiency: 78% i dont no the specs of the gintani charger, can someone post em up so i can compare flow/efficiency?

        cheers guys and seriously apart from the $#@!in, great thread imo.

        byron
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
        Right i have a few questions, i own a blown s54 VT1 445 z4m, that uses the same vortech v3si as the ess m3 kits, i read that Pressure isnt the key but volumn, so am i correct in thinking the larger gintani charger will MOVE more air at the same boost pressure? or am i missing the target, according to the vortech site the vortech v3si is good for (see below)
        You are exactly correct in what you are thinking, volume and CFM.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
        Max Speed: 52000 RPM Max Boost: 22 PSI Max Flow: 1150 CFM Max Power: 775 HP Peak Efficiency: 78% i dont no the specs of the gintani charger, can someone post em up so i can compare flow/efficiency?
        Yep, here you are:

        V-1 T-Trim HD 55000 RPM 26 PSI 1200 CFM 825 HP 73% 3.75" 2.75"
      1. 600whp S4's Avatar
        600whp S4 -
        time for some one with a built motor to run 26psi
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
        time for some one with a built motor to run 26psi
        It is time, I want to see some big boost S65's. That is where the true potential of this platform will be seen.
      1. 600whp S4's Avatar
        600whp S4 -
        Yeah well look at a whipple cobra making 700whp. on 20psi. A s65 is a better flowing engine.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
        Yeah well look at a whipple cobra making 700whp. on 20psi. A s65 is a better flowing engine.
        Exactly, so I'm wondering what the S65 will hit at 20 psi with low compression.

        My take is 800 whp.

        How much boost can be forced in on pump + meth though? Is the whipple cobra running 20 psi on pump? They are pretty low compression wise, in the 8's I think.

        Edit: 8.4:1 for the GT500
      1. 600whp S4's Avatar
        600whp S4 -
        The 03 cobra which is a 4.6L is 8.5.1 compression. Yes 700whp on pump gas. I like 9.1 compression best. I would do a 4.6L stroker with a 9.1 comp and 22psi on e85...