• Stock C6 Z06 vs. ESS (esstuning) VT2-600 supercharged DCT E90 M3

      Here we have a bone stock C6 Z06 vs. a VT2-600 supercharged DCT M3. The M3 gets crushed pretty decisively. Even in the run where the Z06 let off and then got back on it, it clearly shows the power disparity between the two as the Z06 is able to creep back up. So why this result when a DCT Gintani supercharged M3 is able to walk a stock Z06?

      Well, a couple things. The M3 has 3.62 gears. I personally switched back to the stock gears after running 3.62's as they slowed me down up top. Additionally, this clearly shows, yet again, that the Gintani Stage 2 setup is simply much stronger. We respect the M3 owner for going out there and running and we thank the Z06 owner for putting the video up showing how it "really" is in the real world. In the future, the ESS M3 owner should switch back to the stock gears and get meth, unless he enjoys losing to stock cars.


      Here is Drew's Gintani Stage 2+ DCT M3 running stock Z06's:

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Stock C6 Z06 vs. ESS (esstuning) VT2-600 supercharged DCT E90 M3 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 209 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        Of course this Sticky guy is quick to put me and ESS down, but whatever he was not there so he should not even comment. Next time why don't you show up Stinky! Oh that's right you don't have a running car. Whatever!
        I didn't even know it was your car and I didn't put you down. Why are you taking anything personally and insulting me when I didn't insult you?

        You wouldn't want my car there son, it would just make you feel worse about your kits performance.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        In every single run I had wheelspin and tons of it. There was just no grip at all for my car and especially starting from 30mph. The only way I could hold traction was to ease into the throttle.
        If you had traction it wouldn't have changed the outcome, you couldn't pull up top, you got pulled. Makes no difference, even when you got a jump you couldn't hold it.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        Regarding comparing S/C kits, that should not even be done in this thread! This thread shows a Z06 and a ESS and Gintani S/C car. The Gintani and ESS S/C kits should be discussed somewhere else.
        No they shouldn't, you ran a stock Z06, the Gintani car ran a stock Z06, everyone should see the comparison.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        then you should setup a run or dyno where both Gintani and ESS are setup with equal boost and then compare.
        Haha, oh really? Yes, we tried that, except that ESS backed out because what would have happened is exactly what happened in the video Click here to enlarge Real world comparisons are better than dyno comparisons anyway, if you have a problem with people discussing your run and comparing it stay at home where it is safe.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        As for S/C kits for the E9x M3, of course a car with more boost and meth will be faster than a car with less boost and no meth. That is not rocket science, but some seem to think it means that one kit is superior to the other. Whatever, those interested in this debate should start another thread.
        That's right, one is significantly faster than the other. Good, you guys are starting to get it.

        No one said one kit was superior than the other due to it, you did. However, strictly in performance one IS superior than the other. This isn't your thread.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZR1638 Click here to enlarge
        Great post, its nice to see someone not trying to add drama to the usual my dick is bigger than yours thread. Watching the video I think both M3's did really well considering how fast the Z06 is. Both videos show how different these runs can be depending on traction. Hopefully you guys can get all the cars out on the same day and run again.
        No one is trying to add drama by simply showing how it is, Drew jumped to a bit of a conclusion as did this biglare fellow. Probably trying to play nice so that the ESS owner won't back down from running him. I'm not going to sugar coat the cars performance.

        Nobody put the kit down, nobody said it was bad, nobody said anything was wrong with the owner. What was said was this:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        We respect the M3 owner for going out there and running and we thank the Z06 owner for putting the video up showing how it "really" is in the real world.
        Sounds pretty civil to me.
      1. biglare's Avatar
        biglare -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I didn't even know it was your car and I didn't put you down. Why are you taking anything personally and insulting me when I didn't insult you?

        You wouldn't want my car there son, it would just make you feel worse about your kits performance.



        If you had traction it wouldn't have changed the outcome, you couldn't pull up top, you got pulled. Makes no difference, even when you got a jump you couldn't hold it.




        No they shouldn't, you ran a stock Z06, the Gintani car ran a stock Z06, everyone should see the comparison.



        Haha, oh really? Yes, we tried that, except that ESS backed out because what would have happened is exactly what happened in the video Click here to enlarge Real world comparisons are better than dyno comparisons anyway, if you have a problem with people discussing your run and comparing it stay at home where it is safe.



        That's right, one is significantly faster than the other. Good, you guys are starting to get it.

        No one said one kit was superior than the other due to it, you did. However, strictly in performance one IS superior than the other. This isn't your thread.
        HaHaHa! Son... please you are the one supposedly still in college. Your car? Your car has not been running for over a year. Me, nor anyone else is scared of a car that does not even run. Click here to enlarge

        Traction does make a difference, but you don't seem to understand that. I guess it is because you don't have a car that runs. Click here to enlarge

        Oh and I guess it is rocket science to you. A car with more boost and meth is supposed to be faster, it is not something to brag about. That is what should happen.

        You should start a new thread and let us know why your car has not been running for over a year before you go on and on on something you were not even a part of!

        I've moved on.


        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        HaHaHa! Son... please you are the one supposedly still in college.
        This is bad somehow and has what to do with a Gintani Stage 2 and a stock Z06 smacking you upside the head?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        Your car? Your car has not been running for over a year. Me, nor anyone else is scared of a car that does not even run.
        You should be happy, the only way you can beat it is when it is not running. When it was running though it sure put up far more impressive numbers Click here to enlarge Why don't you get to where my car was a year ago first before you start worrying about where it is now or where it will be?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        Oh and I guess it is rocket science to you. A car with more boost and meth is supposed to be faster, it is not something to brag about. That is what should happen.
        Exactly, so why are you so defensive? Why are you being so bitter? You lost, you got crushed, move on.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        You should start a new thread and let us know why your car has not been running for over a year before you go on and on on something you were not even a part of!
        Isn't the point of the video to show what happened? Don't need to be there to see it or understand what happened, now do I? You want to see a thread about what is going on with mine? Here you go, you might find it useful if your car is ever putting out the power to warrant it: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-BMW-DCT-Build
      1. biglare's Avatar
        biglare -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This is bad somehow and has what to do with a Gintani Stage 2 and a stock Z06 smacking you upside the head?



        You should be happy, the only way you can beat it is when it is not running. When it was running though it sure put up far more impressive numbers Click here to enlarge Why don't you get to where my car was a year ago first before you start worrying about where it is now or where it will be?



        Exactly, so why are you so defensive? Why are you being so bitter? You lost, you got crushed, move on.



        Isn't the point of the video to show what happened? Don't need to be there to see it or understand what happened, now do I? You want to see a thread about what is going on with mine? Here you go, you might find it useful if your car is ever putting out the power to warrant it: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-BMW-DCT-Build

        HaHa! You car is in pieces and is not running! Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        HaHa! You car is in pieces and is not running! Click here to enlarge
        I can tell you went to graduate school.

        Yes, to build the motor and the transmission you usually have to take it apart. This might confuse you, but when the motor and trans are out, the car doesn't run.

        You know what the funny part is? It would still be a closer race with my car with its motor out than you and a running Gintani Stage 2.
      1. Yukohama's Avatar
        Yukohama -
        saw Biglare's M3 at Cars and Coffee this weekend, car looks and so's it's stance. To each his own guy's
      1. DLSJ5's Avatar
        DLSJ5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        No one is trying to add drama by simply showing how it is, Drew jumped to a bit of a conclusion as did this biglare fellow. Probably trying to play nice so that the ESS owner won't back down from running him. I'm not going to sugar coat the cars performance.

        Nobody put the kit down, nobody said it was bad, nobody said anything was wrong with the owner. What was said was this:



        Sounds pretty civil to me.
        J, I did not sugar coat anything lol, I was in the passenger seat filming, one would think I know a thing or two about what happened, and what the outcome could be in a rematch with better tires and 1 more psi. Comparing his car with mine is fine if it's done in an objective way, I don't think it has been and that goes for all sides.

        Now I know why you are doing this, because some Gintani detractors have claimed that an ESS car at a lower boost level would compete with a Gintani car like mine. Well I think they're wrong and I've always felt that way, even before these runs. Like many I've been dying to see an ESS car run, running the Z is a perfect place to start. Larry and I have been trying to get together for a long time. I respect the guy going out there and running even with heavy wheels and not so great tires, he wanted to see where he stood.

        But facts are facts, I'm running more boost, better tires as well. But let's compare cars that at least have somewhat the same setups and not be like those who give people unrealistic outcomes about how a car with less boost can somehow magically run one with one running 2-3psi more. I just thought it was a little unfair to compare mine with his, because objectively there's no comparison with more boost, your other thread about this even stated that at the same boost level, things would probably be a wash.

        I know Larry's car can do better, and this is based off what I saw, and what I have experienced, let's see how he does with new tires and more boost, I can tell you based on all my experience, wheels and tires alone, it's going to make a difference at least it did with my car. Not sure if he'll take the Z, but it will be much closer.

        Now having said all that, cleary Ryan's Z was faster than Larry's M3 on that day, he knows that, lol, we all do. Like I have felt in the past when I get beat, I'm sure Larry is itching to get back out there with some more power and better traction for a rematch.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J, I did not sugar coat anything lol, I was in the passenger seat filming, one would think I know a thing or two about what happened, and what the outcome could be in a rematch with better tires and 1 more psi.
        So not better tires alone? And more boost? So a different setup with a different pulley would produce a different outcome? No doubt. This does not change the fact his current setup can not take a stock Z06. That is not a shot at him so I don't see why he is getting so defensive and throwing insults for showing what happened with his current setup.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        Now I know why you are doing this, because some Gintani detractors have claimed that an ESS car at a lower boost level would compete with a Gintani car like mine.
        EXACTLY. So maybe these people should learn what they are talking about because I have been correct all along? Yes, the claim that the detractors made about ESS efficiency and competing with a Gintani Stage 2 was so far off it was ridiculous yet it was allowed to be propagated where ESS has control of the moderation. When challenged, it was shut down. I want to make it crystal clear that we knew what we were talking about and they didn't. Time for them to own up.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        I respect the guy going out there and running even with heavy wheels and not so great tires, he wanted to see where he stood.
        As stated in the first post and again here, I respect he went out there:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I respect the guy for getting out there, I respect the product as one which is a quality option and I recommend it. I respect our vendors who carry it and fully encourage users to buy this excact kit
        I do not respect his reading comprehension as he seemed to miss that and decided to attack me instead of the issue at hand when I did not insult or disrespect him, on the contrary, I showed admiration for getting out there as I typically do.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        But facts are facts, I'm running more boost, better tires as well. But let's compare cars that at least have somewhat the same setups and not be like those who give people unrealistic outcomes about how a car with less boost can somehow magically run one with one running 2-3psi more.
        This is the whole point Drew, a setup from ESS that can run with a Gintani Stage 2+ does not exist. So why are people upset about this? That is how it is, this is how I have been saying it is. I'm sorry if this upsets fanboys but time to face up to reality.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        your other thread about this even stated that at the same boost level, things would probably be a wash.
        I completely agree, that is why I think this whole notion about efficiency is ridiculous as we know at the same boost level they will be a wash and we know that with meth and higher boost it will crush the lower boost setup. So why are people acting like a lower boost ESS kit can compete? This thread proves it can't.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        I know Larry's car can do better, and this is based off what I saw, and what I have experienced, let's see how he does with new tires and more boost, I can tell you based on all my experience, wheels and tires alone, it's going to make a difference at least it did with my car. Not sure if he'll take the Z, but it will be much closer.
        I'm sure he can do much better and I hope he does. I think his gearing hurts him but that is his business. I don't have anything against the guy, as I stated, my goal is show the comparison so people understand the difference between the setups.

        Good luck to him and I hope you guys get a chance to run as well.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        all this bickering about ess and gintani is stupid and it just fuels the fire. its been beat to death. Obviously Drew's car is faster with more boost and meth. Its stupid to compare all these different set ups like that. When there is an ESS car with X boost and a Gintani car with X boost run them. And i bet even then if they ran 10 times and tied every time there would be some stupid $#@!ing issue to start fighting about.

        My m3 with the Gintani kit wouldnt of beat the stock Z06 either. Best I trapped was 123 (5.5lbs of boost) thats what a Z runs normally and up to 127.

        Larry is a legit guy, very nice, and isnt a part of the ESS guys who attack Gintani for no reason. And there are plenty of Gintani guys who attack ESS for no reason, or at least a reason thats been used up like vietnamese hooker in the war. $#@! is $#@!ing stupid and doesnt help either side.

        Larry glad you got out there an ran your car, glad you are finally getting some good tires!!! What color you painting the wheels? and I know what its like to be on $#@! tires and try to run, as my m3 vbox times were done w/out an alignment and $#@!ty half bald falken 452's. Its not always about winning in my book, it all for fun, there is always a faster car.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        Its stupid to compare all these different set ups like that. When there is an ESS car with X boost and a Gintani car with X boost run them.
        That is the idea Sammy, there isn't one and what some were comparing was "efficiency" claiming a setup just like this VT2-600 could actually run with a car producing more boost. I think everyone gets it now, they better.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        Best I trapped was 123 thats
        can you post details about your adventures? maybe not in this thread, but im curious
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        can you post details about your adventures? maybe not in this thread, but im curious
        not so many details...couldnt get a good e.t. Dct kept reving too high into 1st, so would spin tires (nitto r555 drags 285) or would have to go real slow out of the hole and bog down. Averange trap was 121, with some 122 mph runs and one 123 mph trap which i thought was very good. Ran the Stage 1 Kit which had 5.5lbs of boost with full Akrapovic exhaust w/ DCT transmission
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        wow, thought the ess would have done alot better - this FINALLY answers the thread I posted over on m3post about "ESS 625 vs Gintani Stage 2+" - I doubt that given the extra hp of the 625 and lighter wheels that the ESS will be even with the z06, and even if it is, it wont pull as hard as drew's car did..

        cant wait to see a run of these two kits side-by-side (even though we all know the result)...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
        this FINALLY answers the thread I posted over on m3post about "ESS 625 vs Gintani Stage 2+"
        Yes, it does, and if you read that thread now you can see how ridiculous some of the crap posted in it is...
      1. biglare's Avatar
        biglare -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J, I did not sugar coat anything lol, I was in the passenger seat filming, one would think I know a thing or two about what happened, and what the outcome could be in a rematch with better tires and 1 more psi. Comparing his car with mine is fine if it's done in an objective way, I don't think it has been and that goes for all sides.

        Now I know why you are doing this, because some Gintani detractors have claimed that an ESS car at a lower boost level would compete with a Gintani car like mine. Well I think they're wrong and I've always felt that way, even before these runs. Like many I've been dying to see an ESS car run, running the Z is a perfect place to start. Larry and I have been trying to get together for a long time. I respect the guy going out there and running even with heavy wheels and not so great tires, he wanted to see where he stood.

        But facts are facts, I'm running more boost, better tires as well. But let's compare cars that at least have somewhat the same setups and not be like those who give people unrealistic outcomes about how a car with less boost can somehow magically run one with one running 2-3psi more. I just thought it was a little unfair to compare mine with his, because objectively there's no comparison with more boost, your other thread about this even stated that at the same boost level, things would probably be a wash.

        I know Larry's car can do better, and this is based off what I saw, and what I have experienced, let's see how he does with new tires and more boost, I can tell you based on all my experience, wheels and tires alone, it's going to make a difference at least it did with my car. Not sure if he'll take the Z, but it will be much closer.

        Now having said all that, cleary Ryan's Z was faster than Larry's M3 on that day, he knows that, lol, we all do. Like I have felt in the past when I get beat, I'm sure Larry is itching to get back out there with some more power and better traction for a rematch.
        +1

        Well put and I am looking forward to more runs. The car is just so much fun to drive! I'm glad you got to check out my car first hand. See you soon! Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        all this bickering about ess and gintani is stupid and it just fuels the fire. its been beat to death. Obviously Drew's car is faster with more boost and meth. Its stupid to compare all these different set ups like that. When there is an ESS car with X boost and a Gintani car with X boost run them. And i bet even then if they ran 10 times and tied every time there would be some stupid $#@!ing issue to start fighting about.

        My m3 with the Gintani kit wouldnt of beat the stock Z06 either. Best I trapped was 123 (5.5lbs of boost) thats what a Z runs normally and up to 127.

        Larry is a legit guy, very nice, and isnt a part of the ESS guys who attack Gintani for no reason. And there are plenty of Gintani guys who attack ESS for no reason, or at least a reason thats been used up like vietnamese hooker in the war. $#@! is $#@!ing stupid and doesnt help either side.

        Larry glad you got out there an ran your car, glad you are finally getting some good tires!!! What color you painting the wheels? and I know what its like to be on $#@! tires and try to run, as my m3 vbox times were done w/out an alignment and $#@!ty half bald falken 452's. Its not always about winning in my book, it all for fun, there is always a faster car.
        + 1

        Also well put Sammy! I am getting the wheels powdercoated in Gloss Black because there was not enough time to strip and powdercoat them before SEMA. They were painted and then the transporter jacked them up when transporting my car to Vegas. I also got a puncture at the track event a couple of weeks back, so I needed to get a new tire as well. I should get the wheels/tires back in a week or two.

        I knew I did not have the best wheel/tire setup for speed or grip, but I wanted to meet up anyway. It is all about meeting new people and having fun driving the car. You are right, there will always be a faster car! You and I will have to meet up sometime too. Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        not so many details...couldnt get a good e.t. Dct kept reving too high into 1st, so would spin tires (nitto r555 drags 285) or would have to go real slow out of the hole and bog down. Averange trap was 121, with some 122 mph runs and one 123 mph trap which i thought was very good. Ran the Stage 1 Kit which had 5.5lbs of boost with full Akrapovic exhaust w/ DCT transmission
        awesome, so 5.5 psi, fully catless. anything else, like racefuel ect?
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        I think a lot of the banter does come from some of the ESS camp claiming better efficiency.

        PG being the leader of that argument, comparing dynos.

        I think this video and many soon after will crush that argument. An ESS with 5.5lbs and Gintani with 5.5lbs will be neck and neck in a heads up battle.

        I think it is no secret Drew's car really moves, he has proven racing many quick cars.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        awesome, so 5.5 psi, fully catless. anything else, like racefuel ect?
        nothing else. Good ol' socal 91 octane.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        nothing else. Good ol' socal 91 octane.
        Any chance youhad it dyno'd. and you sold the car now right?